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View Full Version : Vinyl vs digital sources: Do records make you listen to music differently?



twelvebears
08-03-2009, 15:13
So what do I mean by that? That when you listen to CDs it's with your eyebrows?

No, what I mean is, that as someone who has recently returned to listening to records after years of being swept up in the 'digital revolution', I'm finding that the very act of using records has radically changed the way I listen to music.

For starters, and quite apart from the nostalgia of digging out music from my youth, I find that I'm FAR more likely to listen to a WHOLE album all the way through.

Obviously this is down to the physical fact that records don't facilitate 'track hopping' in the way that digital sources do, but the practical upshot is, and this is the important discovery for me, it means I listen to the whole album including all the lesser known songs. Furthermore, I hear them in the order they were intended to be heard, assuming the artist had a preferred order of course.

I'm known amongst my friends for having an astonishing memory for song lyrics (if not the astonishing voice to match) but I have noticed that while I know every track on albums from my vinyl days, anything from the more recent 'Digital Years' is generally limited to the well known tracks apart from those exceptional albums.

It means that if I now get a new album because it's from an artist I'd like to get to know, or because it's got a particular track I like, I'm going to listen to the whole thing.

For me, coming back to the simple physical pleasure of using these big bits of plastic has added a whole new level of enjoyment. So much so, that if music is on at home, it's 90% sure to be the turntable. The lossless media on my iMac has hardly got a look in for months.

I'd be interested in other people's views if they have any.

Cheers

Steve

Beechwoods
08-03-2009, 19:32
Interesting post Steve!

The big difference for me between digital and analogue sources is that analogue is linear experience and digital non-linear. I pick and choose what to listen to with digital sources, because I can, but like you I tend to listen to analogue sources from start to finish. For me, apart from vinyl, this is very much the case with tape and reel to reel. Like you, I find I know my albums better where I've had them on tape or LP, rather than CD.

I know that there is something that I find beguiling about the tactile nature of analogue sources. Vinyl and reel to reel in particular. The ritual of taking the vinyl out of it's sleeve, cleaning the album, cueing it up and seeing it spinning round on a nice turntable, or threading a tape and watching it play, add to the pleasure of the listening experience.

I also find that the warm glow of VU meters help improve the sound ;) :eyebrows: :lol:

These days I find listening to music in the car a good excuse to listen to something end to end. It's worth doing every so often with albums you normally pick and choose from, because every so often there's a slow-burn track in there that takes you by surprise months or years after you'd written it off.

Welcome to AOS by the way!

DSJR
08-03-2009, 20:04
I find this difficult to answer, because although the system I currently use is old, I can load a CD OR LP, kick back and sing away to the songs being played (I was always a tunes and songs person, rather than a "rhythm king").

Nowadays, I regret selling the wonderful turntable I had, but once warmed up, the Dual ain't that bad (better than a Planar 3) and I've been digging various LP's out to listen to.

On the other hand, I'm getting more pleasure from music regardless of source than I've had in ages, now the system is in a reasonable room. The legendary BC1/2 soundstage leaves me spellbound on many discs - no obvious "detail" over the ATC's (probably less), but hearing things panning across the soundstage with pinpoint accuracy side to side and front to back, even on discs I thought I'd known for thirty years and hearing on many Tangerine Dream discs how a "sequencer part" is often made up of two or three individual ones, rather than one, pleases this little mind immensely.

Unlike some of you, I've appreciated a good remastered CD over the LP original (they do exist). CD's from ELP, Camel and Steve Hillage to name but three artists sound far better than the original LP's IMO and discs like Voyage Of The Acolyte by Steve Hackett are in a different league and draw you in to listen to the whole thing I've found.

Perhaps I've slightly missed the meaning of the OP here. I do chery pick tracks, but I also play music when on this contraption and keep breaking off to listen to something else I don't remember hearing before.

Beechwoods
08-03-2009, 20:22
I must admit to being spellbound at times - wanting to listen just because it sounds so good, regardless of what is playing. I don;t consider my system to be particularly good even, but vinyl especially has been a bit of an adventure for me of late, and having a nice turntable (as opposed to a shite 5 star What Hi-Fi one previously) has really got me into enjoying the sound my TT makes... :popcorn:

John
08-03-2009, 21:21
For me if I heard my TT first was really hard to listen to Digital afterwards I just could hear the notes clearer everything made more sense Yet I still enjoy digital and most of my collection is via the digital medium
I just love music music first

twelvebears
09-03-2009, 18:36
I've heard a variety of decent turntables and always loved the sound they produce I've also experienced and owned some reasonably serious CD players including the MF Nuvista 3D, but to my ears, I significantly prefer the sound from my SL-1210 which is stock apart from a Goldring 1022GX cartridge.

Anyway the point is that regardless whether the differences are real or imagined, getting back to the black stuff has got me listening to more music and that's the really important bit. :-)

popol_vuh
20-03-2009, 22:52
Great topic, I'll reply a detailed answer a bit later :)

The Grand Wazoo
05-06-2011, 23:16
From The Grave


I guess we can assume that, despite what he said in the post above, Mr Popol Vuh isn't going to get back to us on this one!
Carry on then, folks - the discussion is open to the floor.

Thing Fish
06-06-2011, 00:27
I have access to both mediums but vinyl still sounds much better to me and as the op stated due to the nature of the medium I find I listen to much more on vinyl than I do its digital counterpart.

Its just more of an experience reading the lyrics and studying the artwork. Also as vinyl is sometimes harder to obtain I appreciate it more.

That will never change. Thank Dawkins.

MartinT
06-06-2011, 05:57
When I joined AoS digital formats were winning in my system, largely because of my Ayre SACD player which is a great disc player. As has been commented elsewhere, I tended to pick and choose which tracks to play because it was convenient and I started to lose the continuity and homogeneity of albums.

Since then, the record playing part of my system has soared (not actually costing much more than the Ayre in total, to be honest) and now I find, like others, that I play at least whole sides if not whole albums. My level of pleasure has increased and I totally immerse myself in the music. For me, vinyl has been a GOOD THING.

Alex_UK
06-06-2011, 10:08
Not sure if it is because I was a relative late comer to CD, but I still tend to treat them as an album and play from start to finish just like an LP (but without having to get up to change sides!) Very rarely do I skip tracks, unless looking for a particular one.

However when it comes to File Based Audio (be it on the PC, Spotify or ipod) I very much tend to use playlists, or "shuffle" whole genres, to get a complete surprise and variation. Quite often this will then lead me to find a forgotten gem, and then play the whole album.

In general though, whatever the format, 90% + of the time I will play the whole album from start to finish, as I prefer to listen to the whole work in context with each of the tracks and how the artist intended the album's songs to ebb and flow (which of course presumes there is some intention in the track order and not just randomly selected!)

Macca
06-06-2011, 12:49
Yep I am the same I stick the CD in and just play the whole thing - I've never, ever used the remote control on any of my CD players. With a vinyl LP I might just play one side or t'other rather than listen to both sides consecutively.

WOStantonCS100
06-06-2011, 14:34
It seems digital fails to command my attention because, for one, I know I can pop off and go to the bathroom or run over to the 'puter or get a bite to eat or whatever. I know I can just hit a button and be back to where I was. While that is amazingly convenient, it lends itself to distracted listening. With digital, there's the sense that I don't have to concentrate and I often find myself not listening deeply. I can. I often do; but, not nearly as much or as intensely with analog, be it vinyl or tape.

I have to say, though, there are, at least, 300 or so CD's right behind my speakers, very easy to get to. I probably have a thousand or so; but, I rarely play them. There's some great music therein contained; but, when I want to sit down for a listening experience, digital is always my last choice. I think it's similar to your favorite vino. :cool: Given a choice, you're going to pick your favorite. If I have both selections on CD and as an analog format, the analog format will go on every time. I also find myself constantly fantasizing about having my favorite CD's on vinyl. I know I would listen to them more if I did. Subconsciously, there's also that little voice that reminds me that aurally, I much prefer analog, even over upsampled CD.

As a side note, that's becoming more of a reality everyday! :) After finding all my must have LP's years ago (I've been at it all my life), the game is afoot again! It's just changed slightly. Now, I enjoy trying to acquire LP's of music that I only have in a digital format. It's funny that, for monetary reasons, I wholeheartedly rejected the reverse (replacing analog with digital); but, the opposite I have firmly embraced. And, I think the reason is, I know what kind of serious listening enjoyment I will derive from it.

WAD62
07-06-2011, 08:28
Some of you boys have missed your true vocation...marketing!

Vinyl is better because you are restricted to listening to it sequentially ??? :doh:

I wonder if you'd feel quite the same if you'd implemented and experienced a proper FLAC file based system, with some decent DACS and players.

I can listen to anything sequentially if I want, or anything as part of an playlist invoking album/audiophile replay gain, and cross-fading, at the touch of my android phone. It just depends on my mood, and what I want at the time ;)

Inconvenience is nothing to be proud of...:lolsign:

Clive
07-06-2011, 08:59
Some of you boys have missed your true vocation...marketing!

Vinyl is better because you are restricted to listening to it sequentially ??? :doh:

I wonder if you'd feel quite the same if you'd implemented and experienced a proper FLAC file based system, with some decent DACS and players.

I can listen to anything sequentially if I want, or anything as part of an playlist invoking album/audiophile replay gain, and cross-fading, at the touch of my android phone. It just depends on my mood, and what I want at the time ;)

Inconvenience is nothing to be proud of...:lolsign:
But....thinking of an album as a series of unrelated tracks is not something everyone wants. Some artists now produce albums that are just this but others are still thankfully old fashioned. The problem with the ease of skipping or selecting tracks is that it encourages most people (yes, even us whole album listeners) to flip around. In the end there's less overall musical enjoyment. Fine for background listening and a less musical mood. I used vinyl for my "more meaningful" listening and FLAC from my ripped CDs for more casual listening. The convenience does encourage me to get into bad habits.

WAD62
07-06-2011, 09:08
But....thinking of an album as a series of unrelated tracks is not something everyone wants. Some artists now produce albums that are just this but others are still thankfully old fashioned. The problem with the ease of skipping or selecting tracks is that it encourages most people (yes, even us whole album listeners) to flip around. In the end there's less overall musical enjoyment. Fine for background listening and a less musical mood. I used vinyl for my "more meaningful" listening and FLAC from my ripped CDs for more casual listening. The convenience does encourage me to get into bad habits.

Ah I see, so the problem is not with the medium, it's with the listener...

I've just bought a few new CD's (which are FLACed and in the 'system') and am listening to them sequentially right now, as I always do if I want to experience the album properly, particularly (as with Mono & Explosions in the Sky), if they are gapless bodies of work.

Self discipline young man :)

Clive
07-06-2011, 09:12
Self discipline young man :)
Young....young....young; if I keep typing and saying it will it become true?

As for the self discipline; well each to their own, as long as you don't offend others in public then you can apply your own self discipline. :lolsign:

WAD62
07-06-2011, 09:16
Young....young....young; if I keep typing and saying it will it become true?

As for the self discipline; well each to their own, as long as you don't offend others in public then you can apply your own self discipline. :lolsign:

Steady on...with talk like that you'll have Marco on the thread :lol:

Clive
07-06-2011, 09:26
Steady on...with talk like that you'll have Marco on the thread :lol:
OK, we'll keep whips and leather out of this thread then. :eek:

Tim
07-06-2011, 09:50
I have both CD's and some vinyl, but no turntable at present and may never buy another - but haven't decided fully on that score :scratch:

I have recently gone to 100% file based audio but I have never changed the way I listen to music, I would say 99% of the time I play the whole album from start to finish, unless there is a particular track is dislike. I don't like shuffle play at all and don't use playlists either. The only time I would select individual tracks, is if I have a friend round and I'm playing stuff they haven't heard.

I don't often download music either, as I still prefer to have a physical thing, so I buy CD's, rip them to FLAC and then play them as a whole.

I did however buy the Special Edition Marillion 'Marbles' 180g LP the other day! :doh:

WAD62
07-06-2011, 10:03
I have both CD's and some vinyl, but no turntable at present and may never buy another - but haven't decided fully on that score :scratch:

I have recently gone to 100% file based audio but I have never changed the way I listen to music, I would say 99% of the time I play the whole album from start to finish, unless there is a particular track is dislike. I don't like shuffle play at all and don't use playlists either. The only time I would select individual tracks, is if I have a friend round and I'm playing stuff they haven't heard.

I don't often download music either, as I still prefer to have a physical thing, so I buy CD's, rip them to FLAC and then play them as a whole.


Exactly Tim, using FLAC the choice is with the listener, not imposed upon them.

I normally listen to things as a whole, but often use playlists etc. when I have guests or am cooking etc., sometimes one gets a nice surprise, perhaps something you've not listened to for a while, or often hearing a track in a different context can shed a new light on it.

Plus the ability to synchronise multiple players throughout the house is another bonus ;)

I do still have about 1k vinyl, and a reasonable TT (Linn Axis/DL110), but it rarely gets a run out these days...too much surface noise, and fannying about for me, and given that most back catalogue stuff is available on CD for about £5 (often remastered), I've been buying a lot of my vinyl collection on CD of late.

MartinT
07-06-2011, 12:27
I don't like shuffle play at all

Especially useful for classical - NOT! :eyebrows:

The Grand Wazoo
07-06-2011, 16:47
QUOTE: WAD Ah I see, so the problem is not with the medium, it's with the listener...

The question was about how the listener behaves.
I think that to try & answer the original question: Vinyl vs digital sources: Do records make you listen to music differently? I'd suggest that playing vinyl maybe does make me listen differently as the 'ritual' make the whole event more of an occasion. I'm far more likely to know more about the music on records I own than on CD's simply because I'll spend more time with the sleeve notes, lyrics etc. Before I started buying CD's I knew the names of almost every track on every record I owned, the running order, the names of the musicians etc etc. I certainly can't say that now. Now that in itself, shouldn't necessarily change how I listen, but it does because I'm more involved in it.

nat8808
08-06-2011, 22:15
I have an idea to throw in, that the fact you can SEE the tracks on the vinyl enforces the sequential nature of the tracks to make up the album.

When I think of a CD, the track sequence is pretty much in my head and, more often than not, I visualise the tracks I like as being more promenant and so the ones I don't like kind of get left out of that sequence.

Alternatively, the sequence of tracks you have in your head for a qiven CD may be the ones you normally skip between, re-enforcing that sequence again and again.

With a record, you may have that track sequence in your head but you are reminded, as soon as you put it on, of the physical presence of ALL the tracks..

Only thing I find with vinyl is that I find it harder to get into them because you can't pause or replay the track until your mind is quieter - I feel rushed to sit down in the listening position and probably not quite comfortable until several tracks in.. then it's time to turn it over!

WOStantonCS100
08-06-2011, 23:27
The Technics SL-J2 (crap deck) is remote controllable. No issues there... :lol:

Turntables keep you slender. Now, that doesn't explain why I still can't manage to shed the 25lbs I need to lose. Maybe, it's that I sit down longer, as a whole, because of the vinyl format. Maybe, I need to stick to playing 45 rpm's so that there's more of a balance between sit time and get up and flip time? I'm going to have to sit down and formulate the ratios. Or, perhaps I should do that while standing. DABNABBIT, NOBODY TOLD ME HIFI WAS GOING TO BE THIS COMPLEX. :steam:

Peter Stockwell
09-06-2011, 07:08
I put some new kit in my system yesterday. I started listening to music, from CD, and I was mesmerized. Instead of a "senior" moment I had an "epiphany" moment.

I think that it's the total implementation of a digital source, or an analogue source, in one's system that encapsulates what are responses are. I've lonng belived that Digital (read CD, but why not file based) sources are much more sensitive to noise ingress to the system (mechanical, electrical) than Analogue sources. Analogue sources are more tolerant of imperfections, I have found.

So I can more easily listen to LPs on a less optimised system than CD. When CD is optimised I don't notice any difference and I can quite happlily plunge into the 1h more or less of continuous music from a CD.

In anycase, with an LP you only had 25 minutes more or less per side and you could not "hither" and "thither" with the tracks, or at least not easily.

Joe
09-06-2011, 19:58
I like both CD and vinyl, and listen to both formats 'end to end'. What does encourage restless listening for me is Spotify and the like.