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Covenant
01-03-2009, 19:54
A collection of my thoughts in no particular order:
Nice place but horrendous coffee and overpriced sandwiches.
Good to put faces to names.
Well managed and just the right amount of people to make a lively event
Fast, loud electronic music tells you very little about the quality of a system
Marco's speakers are awesome-as his the rest of his system really.
Cheap chinese valve amps are not bad at all.
Big Tannoys are an absolute no-no with the missus
Bass boom a problem with some systems-not time to set up properly I suppose.
All in all a great success, well done to the organisers and participants.

baron
01-03-2009, 20:07
A collection of my thoughts in no particular order:
Nice place but horrendous coffee and overpriced sandwiches.
Good to put faces to names.
Well managed and just the right amount of people to make a lively event
Fast, loud electronic music tells you very little about the quality of a system
Marco's speakers are awesome-as his the rest of his system really.
Cheap chinese valve amps are not bad at all.
Big Tannoys are an absolute no-no with the missus
Bass boom a problem with some systems-not time to set up properly I suppose.
All in all a great success, well done to the organisers and participants.

I agree with all of the above, lets hope it happens again next year.
I did find the place was a bit of a maze. Sign posting could have been better.

purite audio
01-03-2009, 20:25
Bloody well done AOS, the room sounded fine those hecos can really move air, my only regret is that I couldn't stick around long enough the hear the tt and copper amp, how do you make coffee taste like that? Fine effort.

Mike
01-03-2009, 21:17
A great day... Still putting my thoughts in order ATM.

One small point: Those weren't Marco's speakers. If anything his sound better than the Heco's (IMO). ;)

Steve Toy
01-03-2009, 21:28
The Hecos are the bigger brothers of the ones I use at home. I essentially wanted a similar presentation to suit the bigger room.

Marco's turntable was stonking, as was the Copper amp.

And Rob's computer audio setup was very good indeed. It sounded a little shut-in and flat at first but when we moved the Beresford DAC onto a proper shelf it opened up nicely with improved dynamics and tunefulness.

Beechwoods
01-03-2009, 22:02
Just got back ... I thought the AOS setup was great, both digital and analogue, and it really nice to meet some of the other members, Jerry, Paul and Baron in particular. Not to mention the rest of the AOS management team who I'd never met before. Marco is a pussycat really ;)

I can also vouch for the miracle-shelf that worked wonders on the presentation of the Beresford. I can no longer claim scepticism of the benefits of a good shelf, even on inert solidstate kit like DACs :)

Seeing and hearing other peoples systems was great too. Worthy of special mention for me, would be Steve SPS's brilliant open baffles (Suzanne Vega sounded wonderful) and Pete I Should Coco with some magnificent, huge, and lovely sounding Tannoys, and granite plinthed Technics SL10 (if I remember correctly...).

All in all well worth the 6 hours round trip. And there was no painful initiation, which was nice :lol:

Covenant
01-03-2009, 22:02
Thats interesting about the shelf Steve. My 7520 is burning in at the moment but its just on a glass shelf in a Blok rack. Would it benefit from anything else underneath it?

Mike
01-03-2009, 22:08
One thing I have learnt - I don't like CDP's in general, computer audio is better(ish).

Both pale (almost) into insignificance in the face of good analogue for me though, no matter how 'high end' the DAC. Analogue is sooo much more natural sounding. Ooh look, a system that captures a whole note, instead of umpteen little slices of one!

I can see elements in digital that would attract some, but for me... well, I know what I like! :)

Spectral Morn
01-03-2009, 22:35
Hi Covenant


Thats interesting about the shelf Steve. My 7520 is burning in at the moment but its just on a glass shelf in a Blok rack. Would it benefit from anything else underneath it?


The answer would be YES. When I listened to the 7510 I found it beneficial to try isolation under it, with very good results. I suspect that the 7520 will be the same. I will look at that aspect when I review it soon. See my Digital review for more info on my findings with the 7510 http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1919

Sorry :sorry: for the slight Hi-Jack. I just had to answer the question.


Regards D S D L----Neil http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/Dalek3.gif

Marco
01-03-2009, 22:49
Hi guys,

Not long in and am bloody knackered! I'll post my thoughts of the event in full tomorrow. Some nice pictures will also no doubt come in due course from Rob and Tony Sallis.

I'd just like to say thanks to all who visited our room and it was nice to meet Beechy (Rob and Mikey, again) and the usual crew, plus Paul (Primalsea), Baron, Jerry (jandl100) Richard (Gromit) and all sorts nice people (sorry) can't remember all the names.

Hopefully most of you will feel that we made a decent sound :)

Hitting the sack now!

Laters,
Marco.

Mike
01-03-2009, 22:58
Hi Marco,

I wish I'd had more time TBH!... I'd give the AoS room 'Most Impressive Sound' award. But not 'Best Sound'!

That's reserved for one I wouldn't have expected... I think I just might have experienced a bit of an epiphany! :smoking:

There were three or four truly brilliant rooms there (including AoS, of course ;)), but for me there was one that was outstanding, it had 'the magic'!

Anyway... I wish I'd managed to get back to you and the rest of the guys but I really don't know where the hell the day went!

I haven't even eaten anything yet, and I mean all day, not a single bite!

Spectral Morn
01-03-2009, 23:27
Hi guys

Just found this.....I think this looks familiar. http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/wlgmoore/HiFiWigWamShow#5308330847323721026. Click and have a peek..


Regards D S D L----Neil http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/Dalek3.gif

shane
02-03-2009, 08:03
for me there was one that was outstanding, it had 'the magic'!

And that was.....?

purite audio
02-03-2009, 09:06
Pete's 'I should coco' diy system was superb, sp10/sme v /IO, his own LCR phono, Guy's linestage, 845 mono's and Tannoys, really super sound.

baron
02-03-2009, 09:06
More pictures here http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/baron103/HiFiWigwamBakeOff#

Sand Dancin Donkey Walker
02-03-2009, 10:43
Hi All

Had a great time, cheers to Mike for driving on the day.
I will echo Mikes word with AoS room sounded fantastic and really enjoyed it there, but the sound of the show must, by a good margin go to Pete; I_should_coco. There is something really special about those big Tannoys. Had a great day far to short a time to get round all that I wanted to see, could be a 2 day event in the future?.

Well done to all, lets hope there is a next year, would 2 events like this work in one year do you think??

Andyn- SDDW

Mr. C
02-03-2009, 11:02
A great event yesterday, some really well thought out systems, nice atmosphere and the whether for once was good too!
Met up with lot of people we have not seen for a while and had a good old gum bumping session.
I did get to go in all of the rooms (which is first as normally we are exhibiting), a very nice diverse range of equipment and sounds.
A big thank you the Roy @ Chester group and James at Wigwam for make the event actually happen.
It was nice to see quite a few streaming pc systems in evidence as well as the usual valves and vinyl set ups.
A couple of rooms that stood out for me.

Earl's (Pauls) very together and great sounding French combo with lashing Earlness thrown in for good measure.

SICDB's Deans system was very involving and musical and it flowed extremely well rather than being 'held in' like a few were.

I should coco's system was one of the best with the 'sit you down factor' in the show. I did prefer the system in the afternoon when Mr Puresound's new pre-amp and personal mono block's we introduced into the mix.
Elevated the system to the must listen too room.


AM dismal's PC fronted valve set up gave hints at what computer audio can do and was the most together sounding of all LV's that were at the show.

The open baffle speakers of Steve shields were very delicate and entertaining too and worked very well with all the material I heard.

The AOS room was very dynamic and visceral, bopped along well, one of the more 'impressive' rooms though Marco may need to teach himself the volume knob goes both ways :lol:

I am sure I remember more later when I wake up lol

Mr. C
02-03-2009, 11:22
Good Morning Richard nice to see you being yourself again.

Marco
02-03-2009, 11:35
Richard,

Please don't derail the thread with this kind of stuff. It will not be allowed to turn into one of your trade 'rants'. This thread is about the reporting of the show by the people who attended and comments from those who unfortunately couldn't make it in reference to that. As you weren't there I therefore don't expect you to contribute much to this particular thread. If you have any concerns such as you have described then address them to the relative parties by PM.

Thanks!

Marco.

P.S Everyone please note that any posts which aren't specifically related to what happened at the bake-off in terms of discussing how systems performed, who met whom, etc, will be removed without prior warning. Let's keep the vibe on this thread happy and positive! :)

Marco
02-03-2009, 12:23
I would also just like to point out that the Tube Distinctions-modified Puresound A30 belonging to Steve Toy we used for part of the show is his personal amp and nothing to do with Puresound. It is a TD/AOS product.

Also, the Heco Statement speakers Guy kindly lent us were not there for any commercial purpose, but simply because we needed a big pair of speakers for the room we were given and I couldn't be arsed lugging my bloody huge SP100s around (I didn't have room for them in the car anyway with all the rest of the gear) or the multitude of Mana stands necessary for them to perform optimally - nor did I want to risk damaging my speakers. I no longer have the boxes and they have beautiful solid Rosewood veneers which are blissfully free from any scratches. I wanted to ensure that remained the case! They're too expensive (£5.5k new) to risk getting trashed.

Steve Toy's Heco 700s would have been too small for the room, so we obtained something bigger from the same product range. Rob, the remaining member of admin, uses small standmount speakers so they also would have been unsuitable. That's it in a nutshell - there was nothing underhand or dodgy going on :)

Right, back to what we should be discussing now people!

Marco.

Covenant
02-03-2009, 12:42
Do you mean your speakers are bigger than those Heco's Marco? :uhho: Do you live in a stately home?

anthonyTD
02-03-2009, 13:11
hi all,
well, not sure ime in a fit state to write anything today after the long drives and no sleep over the weekend, but i'd just like to say it was great to finaly meet the guys that turned up from AOS, and what a nice bunch of chaps you all are.
anyway, look forward to reading more of the comments later.
regards,anthony,TD...:)

Marco
02-03-2009, 13:13
LOL, no :)

They're bulkier but not bigger (at least in terms of height), and then you've got ten Phases of Mana to deal with not including the speakers stands themselves which would all have to be set-up twice (including when I got back home) - way too much work and ball-ache for a one day show!

Comments of the show coming later... I've got a mate due round for a listening sesh now. We have some toys to experiment with :gig:

Marco.

jandl100
02-03-2009, 13:14
Yup, an excellent day.

As I was making an exhibitiom of myself I didn't get very much time to visit the other rooms - Nick (Beechwoods) kindly came to look me up in my room and then, even more kindly, looked after the shop while I went away and got a key for the room! Very nice to have a chat with you, Nick, and thanks!

Tbh, the AOS room was all a bit balls-out upfront for my delicate sensibilities - but it certainly moved a lot of air! :lol: Maybe you played some less intestine-wobbling musical fare when I wasn't there (although somehow I doubt it!).

T'was nice to meet you, Marco and Steve and Anthony. If I'd had to make up a photo-fit pic of Marco before I met him, I think I would have got it almost entirely wrong! :lol:

Am I the only one who found Pete's (I should coco) vintage Tannoys unbearably raucous and screechy? Maybe I just popped in to the room at the wrong time, but let me tell you I popped out again bloody quick! Quite a few folks have voted that room 'best of show', so I am clearly missing the point here, I think! :scratch:

Loads of sounds there, though, that did please me ... mucho surprised by the little Linn Kans - what a FUN speaker! Adam Smith (Beobloke and ex-dep.ed of HFW) had a fine vintage system based around Ferrograph speakers - ah, they took me back to me yoof! Stu (Russ Abbot) had a mighty fine sound from his Fostex-based speakers, and I don't normally go for single driver jobbies, and as for his vintage Sansui receiver - stupendous! The Shahinians were a bit bass-heavy for me, although they have made it on to my "to be investigted further" list, as they did much that was interesting and unusual.

Comments along the lines of "what, another Beresford DAC?" were oft heard from visitors to my room! I think Stan will get a fair few DAC sales from Show visitors - I certianly sang the unit's praises to many interested folks. On the Wigwam post-Show thread, several attendees have been kind enough to give my little system (I didn't take my ML CLSs) an honourable mention - including Nick. Much appreciated! :) And loads of folks were drooling over my Denon dd tt!

I had a great time, as both exhibitor and room-visitor - I hope that it was a success in the eyes (and wallets) of Chester Group as I would very much like to take part again next year. I think it was a great success.

Marco
02-03-2009, 13:14
If you transfer this post of yours to a seperate thread I will discuss it with you with pleasure.

Erm, no you won't. You can PM each other until the cows come home though if you want ;)

Marco.

Mike
02-03-2009, 13:34
I saw comment at Wigwam about it and they were *extremely* unhappy about it!!!

Where?... I can't find it. :scratch:

pure sound
02-03-2009, 13:38
Hi Richard,

I_should_coco is a friend of mine. He borrowed a totally anonymous & unbadged linestage with some rather nice hashimoto output transformers in it that I made as an experiment a while back (it isn't going into production though, too expensive!) basically because it seemed to suit the system better than his Tribute Autoformer volume control. He also made use of (late in the day) some big ol' 845 monoblocks I made back in about 1992 that again I wouldn't want to put into production. None of this stuff was badged as Pure Sound or passed off as Pure Sound. It actually looks like a pile of scrap! And that was exactly the point, which you might have realised if you'd actually been there. It was a bit of fun and a chance to use stuff that otherwise wouldn't see the light of day. We weren't selling anything & it was all the better for it. 30 yr old deck, 20 year old arm, home made DAC & amps and ugly old replica Tannoys. Great fun.
With regard to the Heco speakers, Steve explained earlier why he wanted to borrow them. I actually didn't really want to loan them anticipating the reaction of a sourpuss like yourself.

The rest of the show was tremendous, a huge variety of equipment the like of which you'd never get at an ordinary show and systems producing some very nice noises with proper & interesting music being played. A great event with a positive atmosphere. I'm dreading having to participate in an ordinary 'trade' show again!


http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh107/pure_sound/Tannoys231.jpg
Picture by Patrick Dixon from PFM


any particular 'branding' you're having trouble with there Richard?

anthonyTD
02-03-2009, 14:34
hi all,
bit off topic, just wanted to thank guy [while i've got his attention] for all his help and for the speakers, and it was good to finaly meet you, conspiricy mungers read into that what you will:( if as some have stated there may be some extra sales of any current production items used in demo's at the show, then whats the problem? from where i see things the show wasnt all about using old antique out of production equipment, but for owners to demonstrate systems that had been put together from various sources to show what can be acheived when you carefully mix and match equipment to gain a certain sonic signature that is unique in some way or another. the short time i had to explore the rooms i visited put this completely into perspective.:)
regards,anthony,TD...

pure sound
02-03-2009, 15:00
and as far as I know, what the thread said would happen happened. I think Tony's main involvement was going around taking photos for Chestergroup so no big deal really.

Mike
02-03-2009, 15:25
For this bit:


I'd give the AoS room 'Most Impressive Sound' award.

Read - Loudest! :lol:

Anyway... Highlight rooms for me (I didn't get round all of them though) would be.

Steve Sheils - Amazing room filling sound from only 5 watts of valve power, AND it was one of, if not the, largest rooms there! A great demonstration of the abilities of open baffle loudspeakers, lovely Thorens TT too.

Piotr Grzesik - Well... Those Tannoy's. Blimey!... I've never heard such realistic percussion from a pair of speakers before. Ever. If only I had a room capable of accommodating such monsters and enough pocket money for a pair of monitor golds. Another superb TT also, SP10/SME-V/IO. Yummy.

BUT... for me the 'winner', IE, the system I'd most like to take home because I could accommodate it in my room would be.

Adam Smith - Garrard 301/Alphason HR100S(drool!)/AT OC9MLII - Anatek MC1 or Whest PS.30 - Naim SuperNait - Ferrograph S1.

This was bloody brilliant (even in one of the tiniest rooms), and is just the sort of thing that would be fantastic at home, this was the sound that I didn't even realise I was looking for! :)

Mike
02-03-2009, 15:33
http://www.hifiwigwam.com/view_topic.php?id=36484&forum_id=38

Hmmm... I think you may be exaggerating a little there, Richard.

Anyhow, seeing as the show DID go ahead, can those of us who actually went carry on chatting about it please?

Ta.

Marco
02-03-2009, 15:57
Ok enough or I start deleting posts and handing out 'holidays' to some people!

Marco.

Mike
02-03-2009, 16:01
Ok enough or I start deleting posts and handing out 'holidays' to some people!

Marco.

Delete them anyway Marco... He's 'contributing' sod all!

John
02-03-2009, 16:02
Sounds like a great day nice to read such positive comments
The AOS system sounds like it was great and really rocked!!!

Marco
02-03-2009, 16:11
Delete them anyway Marco... He's 'contributing' sod all!


I'm just wondering, Mike, what part of this is difficult to understand:


P.S Everyone please note that any posts which aren't specifically related to what happened at the bake-off in terms of discussing how systems performed, who met whom, etc, will be removed without prior warning.


I'm not bloody interested in Richard's trade rants. If I'm going to be ignored then I guess I'm just going to have to make certain people listen!

Yep, John, we had a great time at the show and I'll comment later. Right now I've got a friend round and we're playing some tunes :)

Marco.

Mike
02-03-2009, 16:22
I'm just wondering, Mike, what part of this is difficult to understand:

Non of it!

He's just thread crapping. Again!

anthonyTD
02-03-2009, 17:11
hi richard,
take this as you will,,, it would have been realy good if you could have made it to the show, because for one, i am sure you would have had a realy good day out, also it would have given all of us the chance to meet and see the real people behind the keyboards...:eyebrows:seriously, i realy think if you had come you would have gone away with a lot more insight about the day, and what it was realy about,,,there's no doubt you would have had some real constructive comments and could then have shared your own experiences and take on the day which would have been welcomed by all, also for a time it may have helped you to put aside [for a short time at least] the feelings you have for certain people in the industry and just enjoy the day for what it was,:confused: come on man, lighten up, you'l be in your box way before your time if you dont,;):)
anthony,TD...

Mike
02-03-2009, 17:16
I like that Anthony.

Well said. :)

Colin
02-03-2009, 18:22
Richard
although some of the points in the above post may be closer to the truth than some think, and is the main reason I rarely post on the aos, I think attacking anything about sundays event says more about the attitude of the attacker than anything that was thought, or said at the show. While the wam members (myself included) did question the attendance of a dealer at the show, as it was explained to us, (and happened) it was not a problem. The AoS borrowing a set of speakers that are commercially available may have stepped outside the ethos of the day, but as it has been out in the open it should not really be a problem, although if I had borrowed something from Mr Gandy say a P9, questions may well have been asked.

Sunday was really the epitamy of what you have been saying for months, give Hi-Fi back to the enthusiast, I met more enthusiast having a good time on Sunday than I have seen for a long time, kids in a sweet shop comes to mind. It was an experiment I hope will be repeated.

Mike
02-03-2009, 19:03
Sunday was really the epitamy of what you have been saying for months, give Hi-Fi back to the enthusiast, I met more enthusiast having a good time on Sunday than I have seen for a long time, kids in a sweet shop comes to mind. It was an experiment I hope will be repeated.

Spot on Colin!

Beechwoods
02-03-2009, 19:08
It was nothing like any other hi-fi event I've been to. I'd not realised that it was such a rarity, and to be honest I feel lucky to have been there. Massive respect to everyone who bought their rigs along. I'd love to have the chance to show off my system down the line. I hope it's the first of many. The literature did refer to it being 'Bake Off Round 1' :)

Steve Toy
02-03-2009, 19:11
Colin/Mike, (it's good to see you back Colin. I'm sorry I didn't get chance to meet you at the show.)

Seconded - and yes, we've been out in the open about why we borrowed a pair of speakers.

I had the following to say on PFM:



Originally posted by stevec67
What on earth's goiung on on the AoS stand?(assuming they are trade) "Hey everybody we have a jumble of stuff spread all over some pretty perspex shelves, why not listen to it?"

I know it's about sound but you do have to have it in the lounge at the end of the day. There's no need to have cables all over.
I am not trade. The system photographed by Patrick (first pic) shows my CD player, my preamp, my power amp, my stands and my cables. Yes, I arrange my cables in a similar fashion in my own living room along with my TV, my sofas, coffee table, lamp, lamp stand, rug, fire place, framed mirror, large framed Dali prints and my wife who shares this space with me.

We all have different priorities. I don't mind if my system is visually intrusive and in musical terms, makes you put down your knitting, home and garden magazine or the latest IKEA catalogue.

I borrowed an additional stand (left) the same as mine to accommodate the Sony DAC and Technics SL1210 turntable belonging to a fellow admin of AOS, its PSU, step-up transformer, his pre, his power and also the Beresford DAC forming part of a computer audio setup belonging to a third member of our forum.

We borrowed a pair of Heco Statements that are a little bigger than the Heco Celan 700s I use at home. I asked to borrow them for two reasons:

1) My own speakers are in a lacquered silver finish that is easily marked and I did not wish to risk damaging them in this way.

2) The Statements are more suited to the room we were in (7 x 5 x 2.7m) compared to 4 x 3 x 2.3m at home). I'm a believer that good systems are not built around a pair of speakers and that speakers/rooms interact as one. In order to get a remotely comparable result to the one I enjoy at home it was necessary to use a bigger speaker by the same manufacturer.

"Hey everybody we have a jumble of stuff spread all over some pretty perspex shelves, why not listen to it?"

I don't think the perspex is all that pretty and it isn't there for that purpose as was demonstrated convincingly when the Beresford DAC was moved from the floor onto one of those Perspex shelves (as seen in Patrick's photo). Our system was rather upfront and ballsy, not to everyone's tastes. I could have made it a little more pipe n' slippers to taste by

a) playing at lower volume and

b) not changing a single component.

I'll leave you to think about b) in particular....

Mike
02-03-2009, 19:12
so now the shit and the ad hominem comments start and if i try to reply my posts are removed. Nothing changes does it!?? This is just a moderators egotist forum where they can ask questions say what they like and then crap back at people if they don't like the answers.

1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10 :)

There, that's better... It really was a nice day!

Filterlab
02-03-2009, 19:21
Hi chaps!

Sorry for my delayed return, I was seriously tired when I got home and work is absolutely manic busy at the moment so I didn't have time to pop in during the day.

Anyway, on the 'do'; can I just say that it was really nice to see (and meet in some cases) everyone in person. It was also lovely to meet our members and members of WigWam too, a few I knew already but most I didn't. Great to see such an enthusiastic response to the day as well, some really positive comments have been coming through and that's great news for our hobby. I was exceptionally impressed with the variety of systems on show and how carefully they'd been set up. As we all know the setting up of any system is tricky - weeks of work in some cases - so it's a testament to the dedication of the members of WigWam who showed their equipment and were so welcoming to all and sundry who drifted through. The layout was very unusual, but then again the layout often is at hi-fi related shows due to the nature of the requirements.

Hats off to Roy who once again drew enthusiasm and quality from those participating. It takes a huge amount of work to get a do like this organised and successful and Roy clearly has a grip on what he does - which makes it a pleasure for everyone attending. I personally really loved our room, we had a great mix of music and the variety of sources and amplification proved just how harmoniously some components can work together. It also proved in some cases just how much things like stands and cables can become major influencing factors in sound reproduction and also how one (I say one, me) can be wrong in generalising without experiencing. :)

Great day, thanks for all those who came by and said hello and thanks to the whole team (especially Marco) for all their work. Thanks also to Guy for the loan of the speakers, not an easy thing to transport and few audiophiles like moving their speakers unless absolutely necessary. Very successful and I'm looking forward to the next one.

A few pictures to follow later when I've transferred them from my camera.

Steve Toy
02-03-2009, 19:26
This is just a moderators egotist forum where they can ask questions say what they like and then crap back at people if they don't like the answers.


Richard,

This is nothing more than deflection away from your offensive remarks about a fellow member of the industry. Here on AOS we allow people from the industry including manufaturers (like yourself), dealers and reviewers free rein to post without having to pay an annual fee.

That means you get to post here FOC. It also means that, like everyone else, you will not be permitted to use AOS as a platform to slag off others in the industry.

Criticism is always permitted of the constructive variety.

Filterlab
02-03-2009, 19:33
Sorry to all our warm and friendly members but this goes with the admin territory unfortunately and I really wish it didn't.

Richard (once again) has proved that he cannot resist defamatory and insulting behaviour in his posts. He always brings negativity to any conversation and offers nothing but sour comments generally aimed at dealers and anyone who doesn't have the same opinion as him. Therefore I have deleted his posts and removed him from this forum.

Steve Toy
02-03-2009, 19:41
I support Rob on this. He already had permission to do this w/o the 2/3 admin majority normally needed.

Filterlab
02-03-2009, 19:41
Thanks Steve, I just can't let him ruin such a great day.

Marco
02-03-2009, 19:44
Richard
although some of the points in the above post may be closer to the truth than some think, and is the main reason I rarely post on the aos, I think attacking anything about sundays event says more about the attitude of the attacker than anything that was thought, or said at the show. While the wam members (myself included) did question the attendance of a dealer at the show, as it was explained to us, (and happened) it was not a problem. The AoS borrowing a set of speakers that are commercially available may have stepped outside the ethos of the day, but as it has been out in the open it should not really be a problem, although if I had borrowed something from Mr Gandy say a P9, questions may well have been asked.

Sunday was really the epitamy of what you have been saying for months, give Hi-Fi back to the enthusiast, I met more enthusiast having a good time on Sunday than I have seen for a long time, kids in a sweet shop comes to mind. It was an experiment I hope will be repeated.

Hi Colin,

Sorry I never got a chance to pop by your room and say hello, but the day passed by so bloody quickly! It seems that your Rega system was well received so I'm sure you had some fun :)

Marco.

Steve Toy
02-03-2009, 19:46
We can review lifting the ban but it will take more than 2/3 admin to reverse Rob's decision.

Marco
02-03-2009, 19:48
We'll discuss this later. Can we now move on and keep the thread on-topic? :)

Marco.

Filterlab
02-03-2009, 19:56
Good move mate! Pictures on their way shortly. :)

Mike
02-03-2009, 19:59
Can we get back to talking about 'the day' now?

I thought it was brilliant... sincerely hope there'll be another! :)

Filterlab
02-03-2009, 20:01
Me too! It was nice to be able to hear music played louder than I can at home too, although Marco has got a bit of a 'volume habit'. :lol:

Mike
02-03-2009, 20:02
although Marco has got a bit of a 'volume habit'. :lol:

No shit!... he hurt by back when I was round his! :eyebrows:

Filterlab
02-03-2009, 20:11
:lolsign: It's a wonder his ears still work!

Anyway, those Heco Statements really needed a good bit of kick to get them singing. There's no doubt that they did sing, especially with the Stevie Ray Vaughn disc that we listened to. I don't think I've ever heard such a good quality recording, and the way the system portrayed it was magical. Really really opened my eyes (or rather ears) to the wonder of valve amplifiers!

Mike
02-03-2009, 20:12
Really really opened my eyes (or rather ears) to the wonder of valve amplifiers!

Rah!... jolly good. :smoking:

Primalsea
02-03-2009, 20:22
Me and my mate Martin had a great day and really enjoyed it. Good to meet the AOS admin team who looked nothing like I expected them to. Even AnthonyTD looked completely different to his picture of his website.

The whole day had not even a hint of a commercial sense to it and I have to think WTF at some of the overgrown school boy comments going around the forums at the moment.

Filterlab
02-03-2009, 20:25
Me and my mate Martin had a great day and really enjoyed it. Good to meet the AOS admin team who looked nothing like I expected them to. Even AnthonyTD looked completely different to his picture of his website.

The whole day had not even a hint of a commercial sense to it and I have to think WTF at some of the overgrown school boy comments going around the forums at the moment.

Hi Paul, glad you and Martin had a nice day. Was great to meet you guys too, and you look nothing like I thought you might - that's the magic of the internet. :)

Cracking disc you brought by the way, really made the system sing!

Marco
02-03-2009, 20:26
LOL... :eyebrows:

Yes I like to listen loud when the music (and mood) demands *and* the system can handle it! :)

I'm glad you enjoyed the SRV track, Rob. Now you know what valves and vinyl are about, matey ;)

Interesting that no-one is mentioning our system on Wigwam - whether one liked it or not it certainly stood out! Therefore I don't get the 'clamping up' from everyone that seems to be in evidence... Are they pissed off because we were using the Heco Statements or something? :scratch:

Marco.

Mike
02-03-2009, 20:29
Hi Paul. :)

Really, really sorry I missed you. I bet we crossed paths in one of the multitude of corridors without even knowing it! ;)

I'll email you, I've got 'questions' about those gizmo's! and, errr, 'the other thing' you mentioned in an email earlier. :eyebrows:

Cheers...

Marco
02-03-2009, 20:30
Cracking disc you brought by the way, really made the system sing!

Bloody right! :cool:

Nice to meet you, Paul. I hope you enjoyed the system we put together.

Marco.

Colin
02-03-2009, 20:37
Hi Colin,

Sorry I never got a chance to pop by your room and say hello, but the day passed by so bloody quickly! It seems that your Rega system was well received so I'm sure you had some fun :)

Marco.

I did pop round a couple of times, (wanted to check how big you are), but you were busy both times, and I has left my room in my sons hands I could not stay long. After listening to the general comments of every one at the show, I hope we get another chance.#

Marco
02-03-2009, 20:44
I did pop round a couple of times, (wanted to check how big you are)...


Why, Colin, I didn't know you cared... :eyebrows:

;)

Yep, it was a great event and hope that another one happens again sometime soon. I'll do a full write-up with my thoughts tomorrow.

Btw, any idea why the Wigwam boys seem to be 'body swerving' us in terms of mentioning our room on the forum?

Marco.

Filterlab
02-03-2009, 20:48
Nice to finally meet you Colin, glad you had a nice day mate. :)

Primalsea
02-03-2009, 21:02
Hi Paul, glad you and Martin had a nice day. Was great to meet you guys too, and you look nothing like I thought you might - that's the magic of the internet. :)

Cracking disc you brought by the way, really made the system sing!

The disc was something that I put together and hope to be selling it soon on Ebay and advertising on the forums..........;);)

I was asked a few times who was on it, if anyones interested it was
Newton Faulkner - To The Line (I think it was called that)
Tom Baxter - On A Night Like This
John Lee Hooker - The Healer
Ali Farke Touré - Ai Du

Also very good is Jeff Buckley - Everybody Here Wants You but that one died in the rushed burning process just before I left for the show.

The biggest shock was the teddy bear of a man called Marco. I was expecting an over tanned, blazer wearing medalion man!!:lol:
Hopefully it can be done again soon without all the shit and politics!

Colin
02-03-2009, 21:04
I don't think they are Marco, there are a few comments and piccies of your room. At the moment its a bit bloody hell it was a good day type thing, and general back slapping. Give it a day or two, when people have caught up with themselves and the more thoughtful stuff will start to really come through. You need to keep in mind how many wam faces had rooms.

Marco
02-03-2009, 21:07
...there are a few comments...

Where? :confused:

No worries, though :)

Marco.

Mike
02-03-2009, 21:09
I was expecting an over tanned, blazer wearing medalion man!!:lol:


Thats him!... who did you meet? :scratch:

Marco
02-03-2009, 21:13
:lol:

Marco.

Filterlab
02-03-2009, 21:15
The biggest shock was the teddy bear of a man called Marco. I was expecting an over tanned, blazer wearing medalion man!!

:lol:

To be honest when I first met Marco I expected a broad Scot with a beard, I didn't expect him to be a tall Ian Hislop! :)

anthonyTD
02-03-2009, 21:36
Me and my mate Martin had a great day and really enjoyed it. Good to meet the AOS admin team who looked nothing like I expected them to.
Even AnthonyTD looked completely different to his picture of his website.

The whole day had not even a hint of a commercial sense to it and I have to think WTF at some of the overgrown school boy comments going around the forums at the moment.

explain yourself young man:eyebrows:
:lolsign:
anthony...

Spectral Morn
02-03-2009, 22:16
Hi Guys


Its a pity I was not able to even think about coming over...I would have liked to meet you all and put faces to nicknames. I also think it would have been useful to actually hear the sound you guys all like, rather than trying to imagine it from what you type. I am sure we will meet up sometime in the future.

I had feared this event would descend into willy waving and Forum conflict and I am really glad that did not happen. I guess this bodes well for a future event. However costs would need to be covered by Roy...I hope he did as I think its a great idea for enthusiasts to be able to meet and share their individual vision on what makes the ART OF SOUND...for them. I suspect there was more in common than radically different, but you who where there would have to say if that was so.

I for one hope that there is another one. You never know I might be able to go to that one.


Regards D S D L----Neil http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/Dalek3.gif

Primalsea
02-03-2009, 22:20
Its OK Anthony, I'm talking about your Tube Distinctions web site not the other one featuring wet celery and vasoline:lol:

Put it this way I wouldnt have reconised you unless you had the badge on.

Primalsea
02-03-2009, 22:23
Hi Paul. :)

Really, really sorry I missed you. I bet we crossed paths in one of the multitude of corridors without even knowing it! ;)

I'll email you, I've got 'questions' about those gizmo's! and, errr, 'the other thing' you mentioned in an email earlier. :eyebrows:

Cheers...

Yeah, I was told to lookout for a guy with a goatie but thought better of it to ask anyone I saw with one incase people got the wrong idea. Soot over th eemail soon I we will sort things out. Do I need to explain the cable or did you work it out??

Primalsea
02-03-2009, 22:25
Hi Guys


Its a pity I was not able to even think about coming over...I would have liked to meet you all and put faces to nicknames. I also think it would have been useful to actually hear the sound you guys all like, rather than trying to imagine it from what you type. I am sure we will meet up sometime in the future.

I had feared this event would descend into willy waving and Forum conflict and I am really glad that did not happen. I guess this bodes well for a future event. However costs would need to be covered by Roy...I hope he did as I think its a great idea for enthusiasts to be able to meet and share their individual vision on what makes the ART OF SOUND...for them. I suspect there was more in common than radically different, but you who where there would have to say if that was so.

I for one hope that there is another one. You never know I might be able to go to that one.


Regards D S D L----Neil http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/Dalek3.gif

So if you didn't come on Sunday who was the guy in the Darlek costume I spoke to?:)

anthonyTD
02-03-2009, 22:26
Its OK Anthony, I'm talking about your Tube Distinctions web site [QUOTE]not the other one featuring wet celery and vasoline
oops too late, busted:lol:


Put it this way I wouldnt have reconised you unless you had the badge on.
aye, no worries mate...
good to meet you too.:)
Anthony...

Beechwoods
02-03-2009, 22:26
I for one hope that there is another one. You never know I might be able to go to that one.

I sure hope you can Neil! I've got a feeling it'll happen again. I think a fair few people realised just how good an event like this can be. I hear* that the day broke even, so hopefully, no-ones been put off doing another one :)

*Overheard yesterday. It may be rubbish!

Filterlab
02-03-2009, 22:26
So if you didn't come on Sunday who was the guy in the Darlek costume I spoke to?:)

That was a Dalek.

i_should_coco
02-03-2009, 22:26
Fantastic day and was great to meet you guys! I was soooo tired by the end.

Great sound and great fun!

Filterlab
02-03-2009, 22:28
Me too, hit the sack at 9:45pm. Sign of a good day mate. ;)

Beechwoods
02-03-2009, 22:29
Paul - sorry I didn't bring your attenuators. Marco could have done with a pair by the time he got to playing Rammstein on the AOS setup. Bottom-loosening loud, take my word for it :lol:

Spectral Morn
02-03-2009, 22:35
So if you didn't come on Sunday who was the guy in the Darlek costume I spoke to?:)

Hi Paul


Ummmm....We don't talk about them, they use I-Pods. Exterminate http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/Dalek1.gif



Regards D S D L----Neil

Marco
02-03-2009, 22:39
Marco could have done with a pair by the time he got to playing Rammstein on the AOS setup. Bottom-loosening loud, take my word for it


Yes, I thought that I had popped a 'beef olive' at one point when I got somewhat over-excited, although on examining my underpants in the toilet everything appeared normal :eyebrows:

What you heard though visceral-wise was a mere hors d'œuvre compared to what I can get with the SP100s back home using the same gear. When you fancy sampling the full 'à la Carte menu' give me a call! ;)

Marco.

Primalsea
02-03-2009, 22:40
I thought they were called i-leks

anthonyTD
02-03-2009, 22:41
Me too, hit the sack at 9:45pm. Sign of a good day mate. ;)
i was still on the road at 1-00 am [monday morning] by the time i'de had a shower and some cereal, it was around 2-00 am before i hit the sack, ime still knackered today!!! i must have covered around 500 miles [at least] between friday to monday, it was worth it though.:)
anthony,TD...

Primalsea
02-03-2009, 22:44
Paul - sorry I didn't bring your attenuators. Marco could have done with a pair by the time he got to playing Rammstein on the AOS setup. Bottom-loosening loud, take my word for it :lol:

No worries, good to meet you as well Nick. The day went very quick which was a shame as I would have liked to have talked to other forum members a bit longer.

Spectral Morn
02-03-2009, 22:46
I thought they were called i-leks


No they are the ones that use I-Phones as a source.....double Exterminate http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/Dalek1.gif:lolsign:


Regards D S D L---Neil :)

Filterlab
02-03-2009, 23:13
i was still on the road at 1-00 am [monday morning] by the time i'de had a shower and some cereal, it was around 2-00 am before i hit the sack, ime still knackered today!!! i must have covered around 500 miles [at least] between friday to monday, it was worth it though.:)
anthony,TD...

Blimey mate, I'm not surprised you're tired! Definitely worth it though as you say. :)

Primalsea
02-03-2009, 23:43
I've been wanting to say something about the show on Sunday but haven't been too sure if I should say it. I don't want to get into an "exchange" due to someone taking umbrage or to upset anyone but...................

For me it was interesting as it re-assured me of the choices I have made on my own system. There wasn't anything that I heard that I preferred to what I already have. Some of it was a hell of a lot more expensive than what I have as well. What did suprise me though was that some rooms were fairly bad to the point that I didn't want to go in them. This is all my own opinion of course which is based on my own tastes which are not the same as anyone elses.

If I have to moan I dont think it would be unfair that for the next one that people should advise what they will bring and the room given to them is sized correctly to the system. I think that alot of systems were let down not by the equipment but by the room. A guy with a pair of Kans had a huge room while another guy with open baffles was put in a tiny room. If they had swapped I'm sure it would of went a lot better for them both.

Having said that though dont get me wrong, it was a very good day and also very nice of people to take the time to bring kit to it as without them it would have been a bit of a damp squib. I just had to moan about something, must be the british in me:lol:

Filterlab
03-03-2009, 00:21
I have to say Paul that I too left the show with a feeling of happiness about my own system. I love the sound I get from it and although the show gave me new direction, I still wasn't disappointed when I listened earlier this evening. I plan to upgrade my amplifier once I've moved to a larger house and the show.... er showed me a couple of things that I wasn't expecting. However if it was deemed that I could never change a component again, there's no way I'd feel short changed by my current set-up - which is a good feeling. :)

Marco
03-03-2009, 00:38
For me it was interesting as it re-assured me of the choices I have made on my own system. There wasn't anything that I heard that I preferred to what I already have.


It's always nice when that happens, Paul - and why not, you have a very nice system!

One of the highlights for me was watching Roy Bird (the show organiser) bopping away with a big grin on his face to Ray Lamontagne. He later told me that our system produced one of the best sounds he's ever heard from a hi-fi system :)

Marco.

Steve Toy
03-03-2009, 01:06
Our system did what we want from a system, and by we I mean those of us who contributed to the bits in it. A few folks came in and left rather quickly, especially when the volume was high and/or we were playing music they don't perhaps like, but as I said to Roy, I'd rather, out of 300 or so people who came on Sunday, if all of them heard it [and probably 100 or so did] I'd be happier if 250 hated it with 50 thinking it was fantastic than have 300 say it was just ok.

We nail our colours to the mast, we re-produce pre-recorded music that makes people put down their knitting/home and garden type magazine or the latest IKEA catalogue. This may not appeal to everyone and that's fine, but we are not in it to please everyone.

We gave our interpretation of how we think recorded music should sound. There are no right and wrong answers to that objective.

I'm happy that we got the results we did via three different sources.

jandl100
03-03-2009, 07:54
re: the 'success' of the event ...

From a post by James on the Wigwam, Roy/Chester were hoping for a paying attendance of 250 to meet costs ( a reasonable objective for a 1st Show) - in fact, around 300 folks paid to get in. So I think (hope!) there must be a good chance of a repeat performance next year.

Primalsea
03-03-2009, 08:03
I hope it goes ahead again soon as well maybe even sooner than a year. I think in some ways it will have an indirect on trade as some people will have got to hear stuff that they normally wouldn't have and I'm sure some people have got some ideas of what to go for next.

Was this whole thing advertised on the forums and Stamford Audios web page?? Maybe if some of the mags could give some free advertisng more people would come?? It would be cracking if this become a regular thing.

jandl100
03-03-2009, 08:12
Was this whole thing advertised on the forums and Stamford Audios web page??

There was a lot of 'informal' publicity for the Show. On forums, leaflets scattered at the recent Bristol Show, I put a frequently updated ad on the hififorsale website. And I'm sure other stuff too.

I got the feeling (although I am happy to be corrected) that Chester Group didn't do too much publicity just in case it was a flop - if it happens again, and with the full weight of Chester's publicity machine behind it, I think a full weekend 2-day event would be warranted and would be successful.

jandl100
03-03-2009, 21:59
Congratulations, AOS, you now have your very own thread about your Show demo on the Wigwam forum.

http://www.hifiwigwam.com/view_topic.php?id=36972&forum_id=38

Errr .... :doh:

Marco
03-03-2009, 22:06
LOL. Like we've always said, Jerry, you can't be all things to all people! We liked what we achieved and had more than a few very positive comments. It'll be interesting to see how that thread develops ;)

I sometimes wonder how many people actually go to hear music played live, particularly of the loud rock variety...

Marco.

Filterlab
03-03-2009, 22:09
Indeed mate. Shame he didn't pop in later really, especially during the Stevie Ray Vaughan album. I guess he thought that as we were playing electronic music for the one minute he was there then we must have been playing nothing else but electronic music for the whole day. No wonder dealers have such problems at hi-fi shows. :lol:

Filterlab
03-03-2009, 22:10
By the way Marco, which Stevie track was the one we listened to that I really liked?

Marco
03-03-2009, 22:15
Tin Pan Alley, matey, from Texas Flood :)

I completely agree with your last post, btw. It seems that there are quite a few 'delicate' little flowers with sensitive ears around. I've read some similar comments over on pfm ;)

Why didn't people open their mouths and say something about music choice and/or volume? We would gladly have accommodated any requests. When I go into a room at a trade show, for example, I don't hesitate to politely ask the exhibitor if he or she would play a CD and/or if I think something needs turned up or down. That's the reason why God gave us tongues!

Marco.

Filterlab
03-03-2009, 22:24
Tin Pan Alley, matey, from Texas Flood :)

Cheers mate, I remember the album but I didn't know the track.



Why didn't people open their mouths and say something about music choice and/or volume? We would gladly have accommodated any requests. When I go into a room at a trade show, for example, I don't hesitate to politely ask the exhibitor if he or she would play a CD and/or if I think something needs turned up or down. That's the reason why God gave us tongues!

I know, it's weird isn't it?! If I was going to listen to different systems as a visitor I would bring a CD or record with me to try, or at the very least ask if a certain type of music can be played. Just leaving after one minute without saying anything and then posting criticism is very odd. :confused:

Oh well, takes all sorts. :)

jandl100
03-03-2009, 22:29
Yes, Marco, I agree that visitors should 'pipe up' and express views / ask for changes at a demo.

I usually do, and I usually bring my own discs along to hear (which is one reason I dislike PC-based systems at Shows - you get only what the exhibitor has chosen). I would have asked for something a little more 'delicate' at your dem myself, but so many of the folks there were obviously grooving to the 100dBA intestine re-organising sounds issuing forth that I felt I would be a spoilsport!

As Steve T has said, if your objective was to really please a significant minority, rather than be so-so for the many, then I reckon you achieved your aim.

anthonyTD
03-03-2009, 22:35
hhmmm,
in that case for the next show we should maybe get rob to do an aditional poster saying something like,,,"if we're not playing your choice of tunes just ask as our system plays everything"...;) you can work on that guys,but its a start!
:lolsign:

Marco
03-03-2009, 22:47
Jerry, don't think for a second that the "delicate" comment was aimed at you, btw, as it wasn't :)

You obviously understood what was going on and accepted the spirit of it, but judging from some of the comments I've read there are some right 'sourpuss' stick-in-the-muds around!

Our system wasn't played at botty-clenching levels all day long, there were significant moments of subtlety, too, and more than a few of them.

We played the system loud with some music quite simply because we *COULD* (as it had the headroom to cope where the majority of other systems on display would have fallen apart at those levels) - and remember, that was with a 'mere' 30W of valve power in a pretty big room. I'm sure you'll agree that it was far from the 'pipe and slippers' sound often associated with the breed, which was a myth we were rather keen to shatter :eyebrows:

Quite simply, we like music to sound 'real', and when it comes to rock or dance music, that means LOUD, just as it's heard when bands are playing live at a concert or DJs are spinning dance tracks in a club. Take the Rammstein tracks we played for example - I've seen them play live in Dusseldorf in Germany and I can tell you that what we had going on in our room was a very realistic slice of the live event I enjoyed where the sound pulsed and throbbed, pinned you to your seat, and made you sweat with the adrenalin rush! :gig:

Different strokes for different folks as usual, I guess, but like you say people should "pipe up" and speak their mind... It does piss me off ever so slightly when folk stay 'shtum' and then moan like big girls about things somewhere else. It only takes a second to turn the volume down - we aim to please. I do wonder when was the last time some of these delicate luvvies went to a rock gig and the sound was 'nice and relaxing' or music was played at a 'reasonable volume' - get real, it's often deafening!! :fingers:

Perhaps the problem is some people rarely go to concerts and hear live rock or dance music and/or a system that's able to replicate the experience...?

Marco.

Beechwoods
04-03-2009, 06:45
Muddy Waters, Nat King Cole, Tracy Chapman, Stevie Ray Vaughan.

Tiesto, Heaven 17, Buggles, Rammstein, Dave Lee Roth.

The AOS room was eclectic and at various points had something for everyone. Reading comments on other forums I get the feeling some people had already made their mind up and didn't really want to enjoy what AOS had put together. I say this as an outsider as I don't spend much time hanging out on other Hi-Fi forums to have a proper feel for what they're on about. It seems a real shame that people feel the need to take sides in all this. But there's no doubt about it the AOS system was designed to make a strong impression at various points and it seems to have done that with buckets!

The fact that a lot of people are complaining about the volume is amazing given that we only had 30W of amplification in there. And none of the comments have picked up on the fact that it was all valve driven. It really did blow the stereotypes about valve sound being warm, inaccurate, pipe & slippers, into the long grass (a few miles down the road :eyebrows:)

John
04-03-2009, 07:44
How about next time Beechy and me choose are most heavist or avante garde taste; now that really would scare people
I was not there but I am totally with you on this I enjoy music I can feel in my body, but can relax sometimes and have a mild listeing session

jandl100
04-03-2009, 07:52
Well, tbh Nick, I think the 30W valve thing is a bit of a red herring. So what?! Loudness is a function of loudspeaker loading and efficiency as well as amplifier power and room characteristics - most folks know that by now. It was bloody loud when I was there. If the point was that a 30w valve amp could play too loud for some folks, then I think that the point was well made. Sadly, those that came in at a 'loud' point and couldn't (or didn't wish to) stay for too long (I had a room to look after, for example) then they may well have gone away with an impression that the AOS team didn't intend.

But as I said before, when I was there, for every shrinking violet (like me!) there was a dozen folks really grooving to the vibe. You cannot please all of the people all of the time.
___

I do notice, though, that in your list of non-headbanging music that was played there is not a single piece of classical music .... ;)

Beechwoods
04-03-2009, 08:25
I do notice, though, that in your list of non-headbanging music that was played there is not a single piece of classical music .... ;)

You're right of course, Jerry. In retrospect I would have liked to have heard some Reich or Glass at some point. I should have bought some along! I'm not sure whether the other guys there have tastes that cover classical... Or John could bring along some Stockhausen! The point was very much to play music that we all enjoyed, so there were inevitably some genres that didn't get covered. No system or musical selection was going to be all things to all men :)

Marco
04-03-2009, 08:31
Hi Jerry,


Well, tbh Nick, I think the 30W valve thing is a bit of a red herring. So what?! Loudness is a function of loudspeaker loading and efficiency as well as amplifier power and room characteristics - most folks know that by now.


I completely agree. However, at the same time, did it sound like any other 30W valve amp you've ever heard? ;)

I know from recently selling my 200W solid-state monoblocks and replacing them with the Copper valve amp responsible for creating the sound you heard that we wouldn't have been able to get the SPLs we achieved in the AOS room without the sound badly clipping and collapsing as a result, as it was the exact same in my system at home: the Copper amp (and Steve's amp, too) has got much more balls than the 200W solid-state monoblocks ever had (and they were bloody good). Quite simply, top-notch valve amps can kick serious ass!!

I reckon you would have needed about 500W of solid-state power, or more, to have achieved the same overall loudness and sheer levels of crystal clear (often shocking) realism... And *THAT* is the whole point.


Sadly, those that came in at a 'loud' point and couldn't (or didn't wish to) stay for too long (I had a room to look after, for example) then they may well have gone away with an impression that the AOS team didn't intend.


Indeed. Although we were enjoying ourselves (and boy didn't we just!) we would’ve gladly turned the volume down and/or changed the music if anyone had asked. I brought around 100 CDs and 50 vinyl albums covering musical genres from Jazz to solo male and female vocalists, 60s, 70s and 80s Pop, Metal, Rock, Dance, Choral, Folk, Country, and tons of other stuff, not to mention what Steve had brought and Rob had on his computer hard drive, so we could easily have facilitated people's requests if only they had asked!

Perhaps the problem was that once we heard how good the system sounded, and how loud it was comfortably able to go, that dictated our choice of music? Faced with the choice between listening to plinky-plinky Jazz or some Folk or 'easy listening' music (as nice as it is in its own right) we decided instead to 'rock da house' :eyebrows:


But as I said before, when I was there, for every shrinking violet (like me!) there was a dozen folks really grooving to the vibe. You cannot please all of the people all of the time.

That's it in a nutshell, mate. Don't worry though, next time we'll have big posters all over our room saying:

IF THE MUSIC IS NOT TO YOUR TASTE OR THE SOUND IS TOO LOUD, PLEASE ASK US TO TURN IT DOWN OR CHANGE THE RECORD ONCE THE TRACK HAS FINISHED.

:)

Marco.

Marco
04-03-2009, 08:53
Muddy Waters, Nat King Cole, Tracy Chapman, Stevie Ray Vaughan.

Tiesto, Heaven 17, Buggles, Rammstein, Dave Lee Roth.

The AOS room was eclectic...


Indeed, Beechy. You could have also added KD Lang, David Bowie, Michael Jackson, David Gilmour, Ray Lamontage, Willie Nelson & Winton Marsallis, Led Zeppelin, Air, LCD Soundsystem, The Jam, Massive Attack, Portico Quartet, Kraftwerk, Newton Faulkner, Tom Baxter, John Lee Hooker, Ali Farke Touré, Alice in Chains, Scritti Politti, John Martyn, Ryan Adams & The Cardinals, Goldfrapp - the list was almost endless...

Yes, Jerry is right, we should have played some Classical music and we'll make sure that we do next time :)

Marco.

Beechwoods
04-03-2009, 09:14
:lol: I wasn't making notes, I wuz jus' groovin :)

That said I do have some Cathedral pipe organ music where the bass notes are are played via a couple of 32 foot pipes. 16hz! I would love to hear that on the system we had together on Sunday!

Marco
04-03-2009, 09:20
The AOS room was eclectic and at various points had something for everyone. Reading comments on other forums I get the feeling some people had already made their mind up and didn't really want to enjoy what AOS had put together.


Nail, head. There are some truly narrow-minded, blinkered, grudge-bearing ******* around, not least of which is a certain Simple Simon ;)

To him I offer the following and have no regrets whatsoever of doing so (with particular emphasis on the two-fingered salute at the end):

:wanker: :flasher: :ner: :upyours:

Marco.

Marco
04-03-2009, 09:26
I wasn't making notes, I wuz jus' groovin :)


LOL. I have a retentive memory ;)


That said I do have some Cathedral pipe organ music where the bass notes are are played via a couple of 32 foot pipes. 16hz! I would love to hear that on the system we had together on Sunday!

Indeed, although I wouldn't necessarily have said that bass was its strongest point. The bass of the Hecos went quite deep, and there was plenty of it, but it wasn't as controlled as I would have liked, which was probably down to the plasterboard walls of the room and its overall acoustics. However they were TRULY magical through the midrange and top - probably the best I've ever heard in that area. For extended deep, tight, bass with genuine visceral scale and impact, you need the Spendors at my place, baby! :eyebrows:

You really must venture along chez-moi (and/or to my mate Ian Walker's place nearby, where he has his 15" driver 96db Tannoy Canterburys) at some point for a sesh. I guarantee that you'll find it an interesting experience.

Marco.

Beechwoods
04-03-2009, 09:38
I would like that. It's such a damn shame Wrexham is so far away! My father in law used to live in Gresford, just outside Wrexham, so I know the area pretty well. Maybe we could get a few of the team together for a sesh!

Spectral Morn
04-03-2009, 09:47
Someone once said....


"YOU CAN PLEASE SOME OF THE PEOPLE SOME OF THE TIME BUT NOT ALL OF THE PEOPLE ALL OF THE TIME...."



Regards D S D L----Neil :)

muffinman
04-03-2009, 09:50
Nail, head. There are some truly narrow-minded, blinkered, grudge-bearing ******* around, not least of which is a certain Simple Simon ;)

To him I offer the following and have no regrets whatsoever of doing so (with particular emphasis on the two-fingered salute at the end):

:wanker: :flasher: :ner: :upyours:

Marco.
apologies if this seems slightly off thread

Hi Marco,
it all sounds like the day went great. but sweet jeebus, it's gotten like a school playground since then. with the obvious grudge bearing, what kind of atmosphere do you think another bake off would have?
One of the things i find so amusing is some peoples inability to spot the irony in running mega bucks branded systems and then getting upset that someone would use similar to enhance reproduction. i feel that if you'd chucked a pair of tannoy M3's on instead, no-one would have given a shite and imo this highlights something very bad about the elitist attitude of the event.
It's a damn shame imo and to put it bluntly fooking pathetic.

Marco
04-03-2009, 10:05
Hi Marco,
it all sounds like the day went great. but sweet jeebus, it's gotten like a school playground since then. with the obvious grudge bearing, what kind of atmosphere do you think another bake off would have?
One of the things i find so amusing is some peoples inability to spot the irony in running mega bucks branded systems and then getting upset that someone would use similar to enhance reproduction. i feel that if you'd chucked a pair of tannoy M3's on instead, no-one would have given a shite and imo this highlights something very bad about the elitist attitude of the event.
It's a damn shame imo and to put it bluntly fooking pathetic.


I absolutely agree, Gareth. It's worth bearing in mind though that it's only a tiny minority with a bad attitude. The vast majority of people whom we met in the room and elsewhere throughout the event were great and truly appreciated what we were doing. I could reel off all the positive comments we received but that would be just showing off :eyebrows:

;)

Beechy, we'll defo arrange something perhaps in the summer. I could hold an AOS BBQ party in our garden (it's large enough) and we could all have a mega-music sesh :gig:

Hey, there's even a pub right next door! :cool:

Sounds like a plan, people?

Marco.

jandl100
04-03-2009, 10:11
It's worth bearing in mind though that it's only a tiny minority with a bad attitude. The vast majority of people whom we met in the room and elsewhere throughout the event were great and truly appreciated what we were doing.

Yep, the whole vibe of the whole Show was very positive.

And it was so nice to see those demonstrating kit not just sitting in the corner looking bored like they so often do at trade shows, but actually enjoying themselves!

... mind you, had it been a 3 day event, even my enthusiasm might have waned a bit. ;)

muffinman
04-03-2009, 10:15
I could hold an AOS BBQ party in our garden


Don't forget to post what food will be provided well in advance.
And whatever you do - don't go changing the sausages on the day :lolsign:

symon
04-03-2009, 10:20
I would like that. It's such a damn shame Wrexham is so far away! My father in law used to live in Gresford, just outside Wrexham, so I know the area pretty well. Maybe we could get a few of the team together for a sesh!


I'd be up for that!

Marco
04-03-2009, 10:31
I would like that. It's such a damn shame Wrexham is so far away! My father in law used to live in Gresford, just outside Wrexham, so I know the area pretty well. Maybe we could get a few of the team together for a sesh!

My wife was also originally from Gresford - small world! :)

I think that's definitely a plan for the summer. I'll post a thread later and gauge roughly how many people would be up for coming :smoking:

Marco.

symon
04-03-2009, 11:10
It's been a long time since I was up that way - I was at university at Bangor and I'm sure I spent at least an afternoon in Wrexham! ;)

Dave Cawley
04-03-2009, 11:25
Weston-super-Mare would be good ? Loads of cheap hotels, the beech, the bars? A whole weekend??

Dave

Marco
04-03-2009, 11:53
Haha, aye, that's near Wrexham innit! :lolsign:

You'll need to get a passport sometime, mate, and start venturing up north outside of cider-land ;)

Marco.

Patrick Dixon
04-03-2009, 15:45
Hi

I just registered to post an alternative ptv on this subject.

I haven't done a lot of hi-fi trade shows, but I think you are beginning to appreciate some of the problems and issues that trade exhibitors have - and often get criticised for.

Room issues:

I thought the rooms at Scalford Hall seemed well constructed and generally much better than the average hi-fi show hotel room, however they varied quite a lot, and people didn't quite know what they were going to get until they got there. In common with most hi-fi exhibition venues, the rooms were pretty bare and that can make for a bright and glaring sound. To add to those problems, you can't set the system up to sound optimal at every point in the room, so some people are going to get a duff experience - and furthermore, the room will probably sound different depending on how many bodies it has in it at the time.

If you're a commercial exhibitor, you want your kit and room to look nice, so you have to spend a bit of time and money on 'decor' and dress the room - which detracts from your setup time.

Music:

Whatever music you play, you'll either get complaints that it was too bland ... or else too extreme. Someone told me that at Scalford Hall, you only had about 15mins in each room if you wanted to get round the whole show - and that's if you arrive at the start and leave at the end and don't eat, stop to chat or get lost in the maze. So that's maybe 3 tracks in each room. If you walk into a room and the music isn't to your taste, you tend to walk out again. You might stay for that track and see if it improves, but if they play two Rammstein tracks in succession (or two Norah Jones for that matter), chances are you're going to put some people off. People may walk out intending to come back later, but whether they'll make it is anyone's guess.

If you play stuff at loud volumes, it sounds impressive and drowns out the racket from next door, but you have trouble interacting with your potential customers and you can't hear people asking you to turn it down - that is if they know who you are to ask.

Steve Toy
04-03-2009, 16:02
Good points Patrick. All taken on board. It was the first time we'd done this, like most but we were quite pleased with the results. Good setup does enable higher volumes without distortion but I agree that some of the time it was too loud for either comfort or interaction.

I also agree with the idea of not playing two tracks from the same genre in succession.

Welcome to AOS btw.

Patrick Dixon
04-03-2009, 16:20
... like most but we were quite pleased with the results.

Yes, I think you should be. To some extent you set yourselves up to cop some flak, but you also have to bare in mind that a visitor's experience can be coloured by all sorts of seemingly insignificant things, and it's best to take any negative comments with a small pinch of salt.



Welcome to AOS btw.Thanks!

Marco
04-03-2009, 16:59
Hi Patrick,

Welcome to AOS also from me. Don't be a stranger as I often enjoy reading your contributions on pfm :)

Like Steve says, you've raised some valid points which will be taken on board for any future shows.


To some extent you set yourselves up to cop some flak, but you also have to bare in mind that a visitor's experience can be coloured by all sorts of seemingly insignificant things, and it's best to take any negative comments with a small pinch of salt.


Indeed. We just thought it rather strange (suspecting that something was amiss) that initially we weren't getting any comments whatsoever, negative or positive, considering we were one of the official exhibitors invited by The Chester Group and our system was listed in the spreadsheet featured on Wigwam, not to mention the fact that our room was constantly well attended and busy throughout.

It would be a bit like Naim or some other manufacturer exhibiting at the recent Bristol show and no-one whatsoever on the various forums commenting later on how their set-up sounded, which would of course be rather bizarre... Our surprise at this therefore had nothing to do with ego or "willy waving" as was being suggested elsewhere by those with a vivid imagination.

Anyway, this little kafuffle has temporarily got in the way of me posting my overall thoughts of the bake-off, which I will now do later this evening.

Marco.

Mike
04-03-2009, 17:24
Blimey... can we move on a bit guys? :)

I'd like to hear what the other AoS guys thought about the rest of the systems, who heard what, what was good etc!

So, some folk weren't too keen on what they heard in the AoS room, big deal! :confused:

This thread is as about 'visitors thoughts from the bake-off', not lets whine about being deafened! :eyebrows:

Mike
04-03-2009, 17:25
Sorry... that sounds a bit stroppy. I don't mean it that way. :(

Beechwoods
04-03-2009, 17:32
My big disappointment was not having got to see the setup with the Quad electrostatics. Somehow I missed it. Did anyone catch it and what was it like / what were they paired with?

anthonyTD
04-03-2009, 19:04
hi all,
well here are some of my views about the weekend in genral.
there were a few systems that i got to hear that i realy liked for diffrent reasons, one was steve's with his open baffle speakers and px25 based amp,it took me a while for my ears to get re-acustomed to the diffrence in volume after just coming from the AOS room,:mental: but after a while i was able to apreciate the real sonic signature of this great set up.
another system that realy impressed me [and marco] consisted of a french solid state amp using a pair of triangle speakers,[around 96db] the name of the guy whose room it was escapes me, but he is well known, [marco will remember] anyway, the reason i liked this system was its sheer effortless power in the bass, and realism on vocals, all from 30 watts of tranny power!!!
there were a few others that i realy rated for all sorts of reasons, ie, i should coco's system was realy nice, etc, there were also a few funny moments too, one which marco will remember all too well, it happend around 1-30 am sunday morning when we were still setting up the system,anyway,we had just started to play some tunes when in walked two guys, one was quite steady on his feet and coherent, the other a huge guy who was obviously a bit worse for wear,:eyebrows: anyway, he staggers in, flops in a chair, almost falling backwards as he does, he sits there for a while listening when marco goes over to introduce himself, the guy seemed to acknowledge who he was, sat in silence for a little while and suddenly blurted out,YOUR FAMOUS !:lol: i looked at marco and it was all i could do to keep a straight face, he had undoubtably read many of marco's rants on various forums and seemed quite honoured to have finaly met him!!!
anyway, those are a few of the moments that will stick in my mind from the first [hopefully of many] bake off of its kind so far.
thanks to all for making it a realy memorable afair.:)
regards,anthony,TD...

Mike
04-03-2009, 19:11
LOL!... Brilliant!

This is the sort of stuff we need to hear!... Bollocks to the negative stuff! :)

Filterlab
04-03-2009, 19:54
I do notice, though, that in your list of non-headbanging music that was played there is not a single piece of classical music .... ;)

That list is not exhaustive, and we did play some classical actually. ;)

Marco
04-03-2009, 19:55
Hahahaha... That was a classic! He also left us with something special to 'savour' the likes of which I haven't ever smelled in my life - essence of egg mayo, matured in drains inside Gorgonzola-infused socks comes to mind ;)

It took nearly a full bottle of Lynx deodorant to clear the ‘tang’ before the air returned to a breathable state - f*ck knows what the guy had been eating!! - Perhaps a sewer-rat sarnie marinated in stagnant mouse piss?

Anthony, the chap you're thinking of is called 'The Earl of Sodbury', known as 'Sodders' - we used to have a few laughs on Wigwam as both of us share the same penchant for rather X-rated toilet humour, and yes, he also referred to me as a "legend"! His system was indeed excellent.

Hey, maybe I should get a special badge made up next time that reflects my 'celebrity' status? I think I'll ask Roy to roll out the red carpet, too :lol: :ner: ;)

Marco.

pure sound
04-03-2009, 19:56
My highlights were hearing 2 different giant Tannoy systems with 15" DC drivers located less than 20 yards apart, hearing some LV's beautifully driven by a Class A Marantz PM4, hearing a Kondo M7 apply its own magic to another LV based system, seeing a wonderfully displayed, pure 1980's Apogee Krell system (sonically not my thing but easily the best looking room there) and many other tremendous home built speaker efforts including Bastanis and various Fostex and Audio Nirvana implementations. Some fine TT's too, a Slate plinth SP10 with Terminator LT arm, SteveS's lovely 124/FR64, Adam Smiths 301/HR100S and a very tidy Voyd Valdi with Helius Aureus. I can't think of another show where you could see and hear such variety. You certainly didn't at Bristol a week earlier!

Marco
04-03-2009, 19:59
Some fine TT's too, a Slate plinth SP10 with Terminator LT arm, SteveS's lovely 124/FR64, Adam Smiths 301/HR100S and a very tidy Voyd Valdi with Helius Aureus.


Hey, what about the Techy? It might not have looked as 'fancy' as the T/Ts you mention but I bet it sounded just as good! ;)

Marco.

pure sound
04-03-2009, 20:04
I see lots of Techy's Marco, I was looking at Dave C's all of the previous weekend!

I'm wondering whether your late night visitor was BigDur back a little later from our night out in Melton & even unsteadier than I was!

anthonyTD
04-03-2009, 20:12
I see lots of Techy's Marco, I was looking at Dave C's all of the previous weekend!

I'm wondering whether your late night visitor was BigDur back a little later from our night out in Melton & even unsteadier than I was!
hi guy,
it was apparent that you may have had a drink or three,:eyebrows: but compared to him, you were as sober as a judge!:lol:
:lolsign:

baron
04-03-2009, 23:58
My big disappointment was not having got to see the setup with the Quad electrostatics. Somehow I missed it. Did anyone catch it and what was it like / what were they paired with?

Hi Nick,
I saw and heard that Quad 989 system, they were paired with:
Nottingham Annalogue Spacedeck, Hadcock 242, Koetsu Red modified by the cartridge man, Eastern Electric Minimax Phono, Art audio Conductor pre, Art audio Concerto power, the cd player was a Quad 66.

It sounded very nice indeed, but there was a lot of chatting going on and a lot of people standing looking at the setup, and the Quads don't like that.

BTW it was nice to meet you.:)

Beechwoods
05-03-2009, 06:10
Thanks Philip! It was nice meeting you too, though I think at the time it was one of the louder moments so not much opportunity to talk properly!

I'd not realised that it was a later pair of the ESL's. It sounds like a very special setup with the Nottingham Spacedeck as well as the Art amplification. I guess the later model ESL's are more robust to transport. I can imagine owners of the earlier models would be very wary about transporting them outside of the original wooden cases. I don't think there were any early ones there on Sunday.

I've wanted to hear some electrostatics for a long time time though. I assume they sound somewhat like an open baffle. I can imagine their diaphragm being sensitive to external noise - is this correct?

Have I ever mentioned how jealous I am of your setup(s) :eyebrows: I think I would be a very happy bunny with your wife's system :) I've been bitten by the Quad bug of late. An FM3 is high up my list at the moment...

baron
05-03-2009, 08:12
Yes it was a special set up, but IMO the Apogee, Krell system was my favourite. It was just me, the owner, and Floyds Pigs on a wing, in one of the biggest room there. I would get some Apogee's tomorrow if I had a house that would do them justice. Oh and I ment to ask you how you were getting on with your Quad amps.

Beechwoods
05-03-2009, 10:38
Pigs On The Wing has a really nice bass aspect to the acoustic guitar, which really shines on a well balanced system, but is completely lost on lesser setups. I recommend you check out the "Goldtop" compilation of Snowy White sessions and guest appearances - it has a version of the 'joined together' 8-track cartridge version of POTW pts 1+2, linked by Snowy White's lilting electric guitar line... if you like the song you will like that version. It's a la the 1977 live performances...

I am very pleased with my Quad amp combo. They sound lovely, are completely silent in themselves, and work well with my vintage kit. The Lenco through it's MM phono input is just brill, and reel to reel sounds fantastic, surrounded by air and ambience. It seems to handle these delicacies at the top much better than my old amp, but without losing what I like of the bottom end through my KEFs. I need to repost some pictures and thoughts to my Gallery thread - that update was lost in the recent forum forago.

Cheers :)

baron
05-03-2009, 13:15
I recommend you check out the "Goldtop" compilation of Snowy White sessions and guest appearances - it has a version of the 'joined together' 8-track cartridge version of POTW pts 1+2, linked by Snowy White's lilting electric guitar line... if you like the song you will like that version. It's a la the 1977 live performances...


Thanks for the suggestion, I'll look out for that.




I need to repost some pictures and thoughts to my Gallery thread - that update was lost in the recent forum forago.

Cheers :)

I'll chat more about the Quad when you repost your pictures.

Patrick Dixon
05-03-2009, 19:34
I listened in the room with the Quads and it had a bit of a major bass problem. They seemed to be mainly playing stuff that didn't show it up, and that sounded good.

It must have been a fair-old effort getting all that kit up there - and for all the Naim kit in the room next door!

anthonyTD
05-03-2009, 19:35
hi all,
other memorable moments include our very own rob [filterlabs] practicing his dance moves to michael jackson,:smoking: you had to be there i guess:eyebrows:
anthony,TD...

Beechwoods
05-03-2009, 19:53
Darn, I missed that!

Mike
05-03-2009, 19:56
Thankfully! :lolsign:

Mick Parry
05-03-2009, 20:16
Tin Pan Alley, matey, from Texas Flood :)

I completely agree with your last post, btw. It seems that there are quite a few 'delicate' little flowers with sensitive ears around. I've read some similar comments over on pfm ;)

Why didn't people open their mouths and say something about music choice and/or volume? We would gladly have accommodated any requests. When I go into a room at a trade show, for example, I don't hesitate to politely ask the exhibitor if he or she would play a CD and/or if I think something needs turned up or down. That's the reason why God gave us tongues!

Marco.


Marco

If I had wandered in with a request to play Sarah Brightman, ......... would you ?

Regards

Mick

Ian Walker
05-03-2009, 20:22
Yes he would Mick but he'd also have strapped you into a chair and placed each speaker within an inch of each luggole turned the wick up full and left you there for the rest of the day hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaa

Marco
05-03-2009, 21:46
Marco

If I had wandered in with a request to play Sarah Brightman, ......... would you ?


Hi Mick,

It depends what you wanted me to 'play' her at, old chap. I might lose out at karaoke, but if it was arm-wrestling I may be in with a chance ;)

Sarah of course is a legend, but then so are you. Incidentally, I can recommend an excellent gentleman's outfitters if you still have a penchant for those high-waister Farah slacks, and he's an excellent barber, too, as it happens. I'm not sure what style of barnet you're sporting these days, old boy, but Billee B (that's his name) will have you sheered, shorted and shnorkled in no time... :lol:

Nice to hear from you again, btw!

Marco.

Ian Walker
05-03-2009, 23:03
awwwwwwwwwww can we shing the Billeee shong can we can we:lol::lol::lol:

Primalsea
05-03-2009, 23:14
The Quads were good but they sounded really congested probably because he had them close the the side walls of an alcove. If they where in the middle of the large bay they probably would have been a lot better but possible they would have lost a little bass.

Despite this they were one of the few systems that I did like. I'm kind of in two minds over some rooms. It was the effort of the people who brought there kit to demonstrate that made the day. It obviously took time and cost money for people to do it. However some setups I just didn't like as to my ears they were terrible. Its IMO anyway so I suppose its no more or less valid than someone who may of liked what they heard.

Steve Toy
06-03-2009, 02:24
Mick,

Sarah Brightman would have been a breath of fresh air, especially as we were a bit lacking in female vocalists in our repertoire. I did play some KD Lang though.

Marco
06-03-2009, 15:40
Mikey's got quite a high-pitched voice, especially in his new tight leather pants, so we'll get him to sing a wee song next time to cover the female vocalist vacancy :eyebrows: ;)

Marco.

Mick Parry
06-03-2009, 16:30
Yes he would Mick but he'd also have strapped you into a chair and placed each speaker within an inch of each luggole turned the wick up full and left you there for the rest of the day hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaa


Ian

That would be the perfect way to die.

On a more serious note, I did not attend the show because I thought the sounds would be crap just like the normal trade shows.

This seems to have been the exception and most kit was set up by "amatuers" and despite the odds, sounded bloody good.

Perhaps the amatuers should give some of the professionals a lesson on how to run a show.

Regards

Mick

Marco
06-03-2009, 17:44
That's absolutely true, Mick, and one of the points I intend to make later in my summary.

Marco.

pure sound
07-03-2009, 14:40
I look forward to seeing the summary. Did you get out & about much or were you room minding most of the day?

I managed to see and hear nearly everything I think. Might have missed a few top floor rooms over in the main house judging by the photo's I've seen.