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NRG
16-02-2008, 14:41
I have an SL120 Direct Drive TT for sale in good nick. Comes with an SME arm mount but no arm or cart. Original manual included plus a home made heavy CLD plinth made from Norwegian ply and lead sheet. The original base and legs are also included plus the lid. The 33.3rpm adjustment pot is a little worn and either needs a squirt of contact cleaner or replacement. Asking £80 plus shipping (negotiable) or welcome to collect from the Hemel Heampstead area.

Pics to follow. :)

Steve Toy
16-02-2008, 14:51
André!

I really think this could be for you.

Marco
16-02-2008, 14:56
Looking forward to seeing the pics, NRG - sounds like a bargain :)

I know what the SL120 is about (basically my deck without an arm) It could be a nice little project for someone...

Marco.

Vinyl Grinder
16-02-2008, 15:12
Looking forward to seeing the pics, NRG - sounds like a bargain :)

I know what the SL120 is about (basically my deck without an arm) It could be a nice little project for someone...

Marco.

Yeh right steve :lolsign:

...............................

Marco yours has slider pitch control, that doesn't.

I prefer the 'SL110' out of all the DJ veriety.

NRG
16-02-2008, 16:17
Here are the pics: (the 309 is not included!)

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l82/_NRG_/other/SL120/DSCF2649.jpg

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l82/_NRG_/other/SL120/DSCF2652.jpg

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l82/_NRG_/other/SL120/DSCF2659.jpg

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l82/_NRG_/other/SL120/DSCF2651.jpg

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l82/_NRG_/other/SL120/DSCF2656.jpg

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l82/_NRG_/other/SL120/DSCF2655.jpg

Marco
16-02-2008, 17:35
Marco yours has slider pitch control, that doesn't.

I prefer the 'SL110' out of all the DJ veriety.


LOL. What are you like? It's got the IDENTICAL direct-drive mechanism of the SL-1200/1210 and is the same in every other way, too - yes, apart from the pitch control, which if disabled (as mine always is) does diddly squat to affect the sound :)

Fair enough if you prefer the SL-110 - given the choice I would, too (excluding KAB mods), but the slider pitch control affects bugger all, mate. It just upsets your purist sensibilities! :lolsign:

On a more serious note, if NRG's deck is in good working order (and I've got no reason to think otherwise) then this is a f*cking SERIOUS bargain for someone!!!

Fit a decent arm and cartridge, get a KAB PS-1200 external PSU, sort out a proper mat, and it will trounce almost anything on the market today short of the most esoteric designs. It will certainly easily outperform the LP12s, Thorens', and Regas of this world.

Discerning listeners form a queue now...

Marco.

Marco
16-02-2008, 17:48
NRG,

Incidentally, why are you selling it? What are you using/going to buy that you think is better?

For your sake, mate, it had better be very, very good or you might in future have some sleepless nights regretting selling it! ;)

Marco.

NRG
16-02-2008, 18:29
http://theartofsound.net/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif I'm OK with it Marco. I have too many decks! Main deck is a Lenco '99 but I also have an SP10 waiting on a new plinth and a Michell Gyrodeck SE with Orbe upgrades (also for sale!). So the poor SL120 gets no playtime these days!

Marco
16-02-2008, 18:50
I totally understand :)

What's your first name, incidentally?

Lencos are great, especially when properly fettled, and we all know about the SP10.

Have you ever heard how good the SL-1200, or your SL-120, sounds with a KAB external PSU (and other mods)? I can tell you that it's a phenomenal upgrade and really lifts the deck's performance into the big league.

If I didn't have my KAB-modified SL-1210 I'd snap up your SL-120 in a flash!

I'd send it to KAB in the US to be fully serviced and have the PSU fitted, and then when it comes back, get Johnnie at Audio Origami to fit one of his modified RB250s, buy a decent cartridge, fit a Sounddeadsteel Isoplatmat and also an Achromat, some Isonoe feet, and for about £1300 or so including all of the above and return shipping and taxes to KAB in the US you'd have one VERY serious turntable.

If the right people are watching I'd be very surprised if you don't sell the deck before the night is out.

Marco.

Mike
16-02-2008, 18:52
Ooh!.... seriously interested in this! :)

I'll have to do some begging with Mrs H first though :mental:

Cheers,
Mike.

Marco
16-02-2008, 18:56
Mike, unless the deck's a dog (and I doubt it) it's an absolute no-brainer.

NRG, what's the deck's history? Where did you buy it and how long have you had it for? And are you able to demonstrate it to serious buyers?

Marco.

Mike
16-02-2008, 18:59
Hi NRG,

PM sent. 'Conditional permit' has been granted by SWMBO! :)

Cheers,
Mike.

Mike
16-02-2008, 19:15
I totally understand :)

What's your first name, incidentally?



'Neal', I believe.

Marco
16-02-2008, 19:18
Nice one, Mike :)

You've got one serious bargain. Keep us posted on how things develop and what your plans are for the deck. If I can help or offer any advice just let me know. I've been there, done that, and bought the t-shirt with these decks! :cool:

Marco.

Mike
16-02-2008, 19:32
Well, it's not yet mine Marco.

Mrs H says I can only buy it when payday arrives which is the 26th, so it depends if thats any use to Neal.

He's also offered it on the WD forum so it also depends if nobody's beat me to it on there too!

:please:

Marco
16-02-2008, 19:40
Fingers crossed, dude :)

Marco.

NRG
16-02-2008, 21:45
Well, it's not yet mine Marco.

Mrs H says I can only buy it when payday arrives which is the 26th, so it depends if thats any use to Neal.

He's also offered it on the WD forum so it also depends if nobody's beat me to it on there too!

:please:

Mike, your names on it! PM sent.

Marco
16-02-2008, 21:55
What's its history then, Neal?

Marco.

Mike
16-02-2008, 23:24
Here's a question for all you SL experts.

In the pic with the platter removed there's little trough thing labelled 'oil'.

Whats that do then? :scratch:

Marco
16-02-2008, 23:57
LOL. I noticed that, too, and wondered. It's probably just to hold a small spare tube of bearing oil!

I can find out for sure though if you like :)

The best stuff to use when actually lubricating the bearing (what I use) is that available from Audio Origami:

http://www.audioorigami.co.uk/F_Sale/ForSale.htm

Scroll down past the tonearms and you'll see the 'Booster Oil'. It makes a huge difference!

Shown in more detail here, too:

http://www.audioorigami.co.uk/F_Sale/image012.jpg

Marco.

Vinyl Grinder
17-02-2008, 14:21
Well if you really must.This is the prefered one:


http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj292/ELPFAN/1101.jpg

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj292/ELPFAN/1102.jpg

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj292/ELPFAN/1105.jpg

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj292/ELPFAN/1106.jpg

spendorman
17-02-2008, 15:20
SL110 thats same as my deck, bit like a Japanese TD124, certainly in weight and bulid quality (got one of those as well)

Vinyl Grinder
17-02-2008, 17:11
SL110 thats same as my deck, bit like a Japanese TD124, certainly in weight and bulid quality (got one of those as well)

Didn't know you had one of those Paul..You'll not be needing that TD124 anymore then.Now i know a good home for it, the Thorens that is ;)

spendorman
17-02-2008, 17:31
Fraid the TD124 II is a heirloom, has the Ortofon RS212 SL15E+ Ortofon step up transformer. Thought I told you about the SL110, less noisy than the TD124, idler wheel noise on the TD124 (pretty good really, better than 301 and 401 in this respect). Think that I mentioned that I did some work for Metrosound (Charles Trayhorn) on new type replacement motors for the TD124.

Vinyl Grinder
17-02-2008, 18:03
Fraid the TD124 II is a heirloom, has the Ortofon RS212 SL15E+ Ortofon step up transformer. Thought I told you about the SL110, less noisy than the TD124, idler wheel noise on the TD124 (pretty good really, better than 301 and 401 in this respect). Think that I mentioned that I did some work for Metrosound (Charles Trayhorn) on new type replacement motors for the TD124.

Sorry Paul yeh i remember you saying that..Idler Wheel noise! I never did on mine.The TD124 & Garrard '301'/'401' is a tricky thing, see the 'TD124' top end is better than the Garrard but the Garrard bottom end is better than the 'TD124'...Wonder if this is why 'Andy831' wants both the Garrards & Thorens!!

Mike
17-02-2008, 18:37
So!.... whats so good about the SL110 then?

Not trying to be funny here BTW, t'is summat I've never seen/heard thats all! :youtheman:

spendorman
17-02-2008, 19:09
All idler wheels make a noise to some extent. It may be very quiet but it is still there. The TD 124 is very good in this respect, better than most other decks that use an idler wheel but is not as quiet as a good belt. Yes, of course the TD 124 has one of those as well.

The SL110 is very heavy, well made, very robust and very quiet, a good start. I cannot say which sounds better to me TD124 of SL110 as I have different arms on them, different cartridges etc. but they both sound very good to me

Mike
17-02-2008, 19:23
????
Hmmm..... My dilemma is not resolved then! :lolsign:

I have a GL75 here, and a SL120 'on the way', so to speak, and one Hadcock tonearm!

Which one do I expend my efforts on first?... Guess I'll never know until I do both?

:doh:

Vinyl Grinder
17-02-2008, 19:34
LOL. I noticed that, too, and wondered. It's probably just to hold a small spare tube of bearing oil!

I can find out for sure though if you like :)

The best stuff to use when actually lubricating the bearing

That oil is Technics part Number:SFW0010.Lubricate every 2000 hours.

Marco
17-02-2008, 20:20
Cheers, Andre. I've got some of that, and also some of the Audio Origami stuff :)

Apart from aesthetic appearance, what is the difference between an SL-110 and an SL-120? Don't both use the same D/D mechanism?

I suspect it's that the SL-110 is a derivative of the SP-10, which is good, but it also brings into question the availability of critical parts should some go pop. The SL-120 won't suffer from that problem as it shares (mostly) the same parts as the SL-1200.

I like TD124s and Garrards, but they're a bit too 'ploddy' in the bass for me compared to the Technics.

Marco.

NRG
17-02-2008, 20:31
Marco, to answer your earlier Q, I bought it off Ebay a couple of years ago when I was looking at the Belt drive vs DD vs idler thing. In the end my Gyro lost out as did the SL120 to a Lenco '99. It just ticked all the right boxes for me.... Then a while later I heard an SP10 and well....I just had to get one. It needs a plinth and I rather fancy one of the SlateDeck ones so I need to free some capital and space LOL!

NRG
17-02-2008, 20:34
Oh! forgot... you all probably know about this link but I'll post it anyway, it's a good resource on some of the DD decks....

http://de.geocities.com/bc1a69/museum_eng.html

Vinyl Grinder
17-02-2008, 20:55
Oh! forgot... you all probably know about this link but I'll post it anyway, it's a good resource on some of the DD decks....

http://de.geocities.com/bc1a69/museum_eng.html

Anyone remember the Monitor Audio 'ET500' turntable? Used the Matsushita DD motor as JBE did..

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj292/ELPFAN/MA.jpg

NRG
17-02-2008, 20:58
So!.... whats so good about the SL110 then?

Not trying to be funny here BTW, t'is summat I've never seen/heard thats all! :youtheman:

Mark, the SL120 was nearly the best of the Technics 'domestic' range when it was launched. The SL110 really sits above it having the broadcast SP10 motor but mounted in a domestic style plinth.

Vinyl Grinder
17-02-2008, 21:24
Here got this info off the web but simplified it as not to bore you too much

1970: 'SP-10' motor unit
1971: 'SL-1100'
1972: 'SL-110 (Armless version of the 'SL-1100'),
Introduction of the 'SL-1200'(pitch on pots)
1973: 'SL-120 (Armless version of the 'SL-1200')
1974: 'SL-1300 (Essentially a Fully auto 'SL-1200)
1975: 'SP-10 MkII'
Introduction of 'SL-1350' (Cross between 'SL-1100 & 'SL-1300')
Introduction of 'SL-1500' (Manual 'SL-1300) & 'SL-1400 (Semi auto)
1976: 'SL-1200', 'SL-1300', 'SL-1400', 'SL-1500' Introduced as '1210', '1310', '1410' & '1510'
1977: 'SL-1300', SL-1400' & 'SL-1500' Introduced as MKII version..
'SL-1650' & 'SL-1950' auto changers introduced.

1979: 'SL-1200' with slide faders for pitch
1980: 'SL-1200'Mk.II with diecase/rubber housing
Introduction of 'SP-12'

Nothing really new after that apart from small improvements & Ltd edition model.

shane
17-02-2008, 22:02
So do all of these have the same motor and electronics?

Marco
17-02-2008, 22:15
Marco, to answer your earlier Q, I bought it off Ebay a couple of years ago when I was looking at the Belt drive vs DD vs idler thing. In the end my Gyro lost out as did the SL120 to a Lenco '99. It just ticked all the right boxes for me.... Then a while later I heard an SP10 and well....I just had to get one. It needs a plinth and I rather fancy one of the SlateDeck ones so I need to free some capital and space LOL!


Hi Neal,

Thanks for that - interesting.

I've never had a serious listen to a Lenco, properly fettled, so can't really comment, but I know Garrards and TD124s well. I'd have a TD124 before I'd have a 401, but I'd have a 301 over either of those. Yes I know the 401 is supposedly better, but not to my ears, and it looks like plastic shit compared to a 301. Gyros do nothing for me, sorry.

Regarding SP10s, I've heard a few - the last one was Guy Sergeant's one at the Manchester show, and the same deck at the London show before that, and whilst it was bloody good (and it was!), trouncing all other belt-drive T/Ts demonstrated at the show (some of them very expensive!) there was nothing I heard with the SP10 that would make me jump out and swap it for my KAB-modified SL-1210... It didn't 'blow me away' like I thought it would.

Maybe I've never experienced an SP10 at its absolute best (Guy's was heard at a show after all) or maybe the KAB modifications raise the performance of an SL-1210 to levels way above its normal capabilities? Those are questions that can only be answered if I tried an SP10 at home in my own system and compared it to my deck. The same arm and cartridge would also help, I suppose! :)

Thing is, the KAB-modified SL-1210 sounds so shockingly good that I can be arsed even going there.

Marco.

Vinyl Grinder
17-02-2008, 22:34
So do all of these have the same motor and electronics?


Don't know but the SP10 MkI&II used different motors.

Marco
17-02-2008, 23:00
That's the thing, though, Andre... It's all very well having superior motor units *IF* they actually perform now as they did when they were new 30-odd years ago! I'm not convinced that's definitely the case...

I've got no doubt the motor unit in the SP10 and SL-110 was originally better than that in the SL-1210, but I'm not sure if a brand new motor in an SL-1210 when compared to the 30-odd year old motor in an SP10 doesn't level the playing field somewhat.

Remember that the vast majority of SP10s owned these days were bought second hand from being used professionally in a TV or radio station, and in most cases were pretty used and abused, so it's difficult to judge how much of the SP10's original level of performance you're actually getting.

That's why I've opted for taking the headache out of the decision and going for a KAB-modified SL-1210, which I truly believe is as good, or at worst, not far off the performance of a 30 year old SP10 to make it virtually insignificant.

Marco.

pure sound
18-02-2008, 11:40
Some Technics info here.

http://de.geocities.com/bc1a69/technics_eng.html

I had a 110 briefly. It looked nice but didn't sound great. When that was made the motor control system was still being developed by Technics. The Mk2 version of the SP10 is a different animal to either the 110 or the original SP10 and was properly sorted. I'd agree with Marco about perhaps steering clear of ex broadcast SP10's. Even ex domestic ones would probably benefit from having many of the PSU caps replaced particularly if the TT has been unused for several years.

Marco
18-02-2008, 11:47
Thanks for that, Guy - a most interesting link.

At some point, purely for curiosity, I'd love to compare a fully-optimised SP10 in my system against my KAB-modified SL-1210. So if you're ever near North Wales bring yours up and we can have a play! :)

As an aside, what I'd love to see is a picture of an SP-10 and an SL-1200 motor, with specifications quoted (particularly the relevant torque measurements) so we can see just how much better the motor in the SP-10 supposedly is. It's all a bit of a grey area at the moment.

What always annoys me is that the SP-10 is so reverently revered by audiophiles, yet the SL-1210 is dismissed rather snootily by the same people as being nothing other than a 'DJ deck', when both use very high quality direct-drive Quatrz mechanisms. The consensus of opinion appears to be that the SL-1210 is grossly inferior, however I suspect the reality is rather different. From experience I believe that an SL-1210, suitably modified and set-up properly concedes little sonically to the SP10, especially given over 30 years of wear and tear. I love the SP-10, but I think some people are easily influenced by reputation and history!

Marco.

NRG
18-02-2008, 13:41
... I love the SP-10, but I think some people are easily influenced by reputation and history!

Marco.

You need to hear one Marco ;)

Agree with the earlier comment about the PSU caps and electronics, it's one fear I have, looking at the 1970's electronics I can see it would be a PIA to fix, however, I know of a number of people using them and they've not had issues... I have a plan to replace at least the PSU caps.

Mine is an ex broadcast unit and it stops and starts in an instant. The amount of torque is serious! Much more than the SL120 has and it's very speed stable.

Marco
18-02-2008, 13:54
You need to hear one Marco


LOL, Neal, is that an offer? :)

I have - although admittedly not in my own system. Perhaps you need to hear a KAB-modified SL-1210? ;)

A think a trip to North Wales beckons, once you've got your SP-10 sorted in a plinth. I think it could be an educational exercise for both of us...

Marco.

P.S Which of these are you? A beer man :cool: or a wine man? :glug:

So I know what to get in for your visit!

Mike
29-02-2008, 21:06
Some Technics info here.

http://de.geocities.com/bc1a69/technics_eng.html

I had a 110 briefly. It looked nice but didn't sound great. When that was made the motor control system was still being developed by Technics. The Mk2 version of the SP10 is a different animal to either the 110 or the original SP10 and was properly sorted. I'd agree with Marco about perhaps steering clear of ex broadcast SP10's. Even ex domestic ones would probably benefit from having many of the PSU caps replaced particularly if the TT has been unused for several years.

Thanks for the info!

Can I have one of your phono stage's please? ;)

Vinyl Grinder
29-02-2008, 22:24
These Technics deck have no place in the serious side of audio, it's just the desperate reviewers that find them a revelation compared to the crap thats availbale these days, not hard really finding any old gubbins from the past to compete!

Mike
29-02-2008, 22:35
HeHe.... you old cynic you! :ner:

Vinyl Grinder
29-02-2008, 23:35
Why Guy keeps his Heybrook 'TT2' at hand cos he knows deep down in his heart of hearts that 'SP-10's a pile of shite

:lolsign:

pure sound
01-03-2008, 15:01
LOL. I'll have to get one of the Voyds out of my loft & give that a whirl when I get the Alphason arm back from AO.

Marco
01-03-2008, 22:48
These Technics deck have no place in the serious side of audio, it's just the desperate reviewers that find them a revelation compared to the crap thats availbale these days, not hard really finding any old gubbins from the past to compete!


Yep, that's exactly what I was sitting there thinking when listening to vinyl for three hours solid this afternoon :popcorn:

I'm such a glutton for punishment!

:gig:

Marco.

Mike
11-03-2008, 21:31
Well!

I'm now the owner of an SL120, one which must have the heaviest plinth in Christendom!

The bits of the deck I can actually see are in damn fine condition, but the rest of it will have to wait for now as can't lift the f*****g thing out of the box!!!

http://kiw.imgag.com/imgag/product/thumbs/3125811a.gif

Marco
11-03-2008, 21:59
LOL. You need some porridge, Mikey! You wanna try lifting my mate's valve amp, which weighs 5 stone, on top of 15 levels of Mana!! :eyebrows:

Let us know what you think when you get it out the box...

Good timing, btw - there should be some interesting reading matter for you to digest tomorrow, too ;)

Marco.

Vinyl Grinder
11-03-2008, 23:45
15 levels of Mana!!

:mental:

Marco
11-03-2008, 23:54
LOL. Come and listen to it and then see if you think I'm a mental case! ;)

Well I am a mental case...but for entirely different reasons :lol:

Marco.

NRG
12-03-2008, 15:57
Well!

I'm now the owner of an SL120, one which must have the heaviest plinth in Christendom!

The bits of the deck I can actually see are in damn fine condition, but the rest of it will have to wait for now as can't lift the f*****g thing out of the box!!!

http://kiw.imgag.com/imgag/product/thumbs/3125811a.gif

That'll be the lead in the plinth Mike :lolsign:

Yeah, sorry about the tight fit, didn't want it to move around :eyebrows:

The plinth is split in two. Remove the wood screws from the bottom and the bottom half, this will give you access to the underside of the deck and the mounting bolts. Try it 'as is' with the wood feet and let us know what you think.....

hellenic vanagon
06-06-2014, 15:31
Blind test SL-1200 ORIGINAL VS REGA P3 VS YAMAHA YP-701.

http://www.iavscanada.com/Articles/measuring.JPG
(A photo from the event).

http://www.iavscanada.com/Articles/art_turntable.htm

DSJR
06-06-2014, 21:40
Severe acoustic feedback was the 110 and 120 bugbear I remember, as an ex owner of a 110 and knowing the 120 very well indeed (so many mid 70's LP's I bought were first heard via a SL120/SME/V15 III or ADC XLM II). These days, I wonder if changing the mat, removing the 120 lid and careful siting/feet would be enough to transform it as the SL1500 came up hugely set up this way?

hellenic vanagon
07-06-2014, 00:15
Severe acoustic feedback was the 110 and 120 bugbear I remember, as an ex owner of a 110 and knowing the 120 very well indeed (so many mid 70's LP's I bought were first heard via a SL120/SME/V15 III or ADC XLM II). These days, I wonder if changing the mat, removing the 120 lid and careful siting/feet would be enough to transform it as the SL1500 came up hugely set up this way?

Here is mine:


http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo57/hellenic_vanagon/P3310377_zps2b3e7348.jpg (http://s361.photobucket.com/user/hellenic_vanagon/media/P3310377_zps2b3e7348.jpg.html)
(First owner, 20/02/1976 manufactured:

http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo57/hellenic_vanagon/MJLMOTOR.jpg?t=1290972276).

Here are some simple measures to defeat acoustic feedback:

1)UHU PATAFIX, (BLUE TAC), for the cavities of the bottom cover.

http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo57/hellenic_vanagon/-3.jpg?t=1249412277


2)Use of the standard absorbing feet.

http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo57/hellenic_vanagon/5-2.jpg?t=1290940547



3)Playing without dust cover:

http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo57/hellenic_vanagon/TECHCOVER.jpg?t=1292316194


4)Riding on air platter:

http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo57/hellenic_vanagon/SL1200isolation.jpg?t=1292367149

or

http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo57/hellenic_vanagon/ZERORUMBLE.jpg?t=1296754397


5)Tonearm base on silent blocks:

http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo57/hellenic_vanagon/SILENTBLOCKBetaAlphaSigmaEtaSigma_zps941d0c87.png

hellenic vanagon
07-06-2014, 08:43
Two prizes for the TECHNICS SL-1200 (ORIGINAL), the one being British.

1973:"London Daily Mail": "Blue Ribbon" Prize for Technics SL-1200 (ORIGINAL),

(same year),

"Good design award" of "Trade & Industry", Japan ministry.

http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo57/hellenic_vanagon/Alphanutau3AF0gammarhoalphaphiomicronalphapi3CC0TW OPRIZES4jpg_zpsd643f066.png (http://s361.photobucket.com/user/hellenic_vanagon/media/Alphanutau3AF0gammarhoalphaphiomicronalphapi3CC0TW OPRIZES4jpg_zpsd643f066.png.html)

(The above are a part of this article:

http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo57/hellenic_vanagon/TWOPRIZES4_zps884577d1.png (http://s361.photobucket.com/user/hellenic_vanagon/media/TWOPRIZES4_zps884577d1.png.html))

NRG
07-06-2014, 21:17
This is a blast from the past! OK this explains the visitors page message I got about buying my old SL120 ! I sold it to Mike back in 2008 ;)