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Togil
31-01-2009, 16:25
Martin Colloms wrote about the Nuforce 8.5 V2 : "the mid-treble had a rough scratchiness as if there were contaminants in the voice coil ( or something to the effect )

Oh my god I have for the first time clearly heard this on my 9SEs after listening to a lot of Schubert Lieder recently, and then comparing to my old Audiolab.

Dave, any comments ?

Dave Cawley
31-01-2009, 16:31
Err, well, sort of ? In the next 2 weeks we will be removing NuForce from our site. Although I have used them at shows and demoed them here, we never sold any. David Price loved them but is using Class A now.

Dave

Mike
31-01-2009, 16:43
Never sold ANY???

Blimey, from reading some write ups you'd think they were the best thing since sliced bread! http://www.wduk.worldomain.net/forum/images/smilies/eek.gif

Togil
31-01-2009, 17:08
They are quite addictive , on certain types of music.

In addition, I'm wondering if my pair actually got worse over time.

Marco
31-01-2009, 17:16
Now's your time to change over to valves, Hans - you know it makes sense ;)

Marco.

leo
31-01-2009, 17:53
The Nuforce amps have high RFI problems, having all that noise floating about in there is going to have some effect polluting the signal especially listening to some high bandwidth classical pieces.

The scratchiness is HF distortion, its this sort of thing which gives classD a bad name imo

leo
31-01-2009, 17:56
They are quite addictive , on certain types of music.

In addition, I'm wondering if my pair actually got worse over time.


Possible, sometimes you can get used to this thing over time, only when going back to another amp which has a cleaner output makes it more noticeable

YNWaN
31-01-2009, 19:41
I've heard the Nuforce a number of times and have been left quite underwhelmed on each occasion. I thought the micro dynamic was poor with distinctly below average tonal shading and expression.

leo
31-01-2009, 20:19
You may have already seen this http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/article/1831/nuforce-reference-9-02-amplifier/

Seems each model up is an improvement over the last regarding RFI
Any pics of the SE's guts?

I doubt these amps will ever be perfect due to the design but if yours does seem to be worse now than what it was ,its possible some of the electrolytic caps in yours has started to degrade, remember these amps use SMPS, these are pretty noisy so will show problems like bad caps up

If I had those amps the red Wima MKS coupling caps would be the first thing to go, hate those bloody things!

Togil
31-01-2009, 21:26
It's possible the V2 "upgrade" made things worse in some respects ( MC reviewed the V2 version )

Primalsea
31-01-2009, 21:38
You might be experiencing that hifi thing of what may seem impressive initially starts to irritate over the long haul.

Togil
01-02-2009, 07:45
Yet... I compared it many times to the very popular Lyngdorf 2175 Integrated and the Nuforce was clearly better in key areas

jandl100
01-02-2009, 08:50
Quite puzzling. I really don't know what to make of these comments about harsh/distorted treble from Class D amps.

I've had loads (well, quite a few! *) and if anything I'd say the "Class D House Sound" (a contentious concept! ;)) was rather over-smooth and a bit 'safe' in the treble. :scratch:

And I'm mainly a classical music listener so I'd expect to be particularly sensitive to treble issues - I certainly can't stomach many speakers that are well thought of for rock/electronica.

Maybe I'm just deaf. :) ... although I am over 50 so treble sensitivity will undoubtedly be one the wain .... but then Martin Colloms ain't exactly a spring chicken!

Could it be that I tend to live way out in the 'backwoods' and away from so-called civilisation - so the background levels of RFI will be low?

__

* Veritas P400 stereo power, NuForce Reference 8 monos (their 1st amps, and allegedly the worst RFI offenders), Lyngdorf/TacT SDAi2175 integrated and SDA2175 power, T-Amp, modded T-amp. Any others? Possibly ...

Togil
01-02-2009, 15:11
It's more the quality rather than quantity of treble; as Martin Colloms pointed out we have to invent new terminology for Class D problems.

jandl100
02-02-2009, 07:06
Hi Hans - well, I was talking about treble quality too. I just haven't heard treble nasties in any of the class D amps I have owned. Too damn smooth - yes; distortion, no.

Togil
02-02-2009, 07:19
I'm beginning to wonder if it was after the upgrade to the V2 version because I hadn't noticed it before either. Colloms reviewed V2.

Now with my old Audiolab things are back to "normal" - actually it's very good, a humble power amp with a high-class preamp can perform miracles, I almost feel like a box-swapper:)

Filterlab
02-02-2009, 11:42
Unusual, I've heard the NuForce amps and they are very impressive, in fact my next power amp change was to be moving from my modified 8000P to a pair of the 9SE V2s. I may have to have a pair on long-term test before making the jump, saying that the Audiolab stuff in normal guise was always leagues ahead of the competition, modified even better.

Hmmm.

Togil
02-02-2009, 12:39
Oh is there something to modify in the Audiolab ?

I'm using a 15year-old integrated in power amp mode.

leo
02-02-2009, 16:54
If you post a pic of your updated Nuforce amps and if we can find a decent picture of the ones before it might be possible to work out what they changed and should give us an idea whats made it worse

Some mods/updates don't suit everybody;)

Sallit47
02-02-2009, 18:36
Hi chaps first e-mail here:

I have no problem with the Nuforces and certainly not headaches etc. I am a valve man at heart but when I don't want all that power on the nuforces are OK.

Togil
02-02-2009, 19:00
Yes the Nuforces have an addictive grain-free midrange making ,eg, Jimi Hendrix' guitar lovely to listen to, the trouble came when listening to classical baritone

Filterlab
02-02-2009, 22:45
Oh is there something to modify in the Audiolab ?

I'm using a 15year-old integrated in power amp mode.

Anything can be modified, and generally to a degree which belies the money spent in terms of equivalent performance per pound compared to high end equipment.

Togil
03-02-2009, 07:21
Anything can be modified, and generally to a degree which belies the money spent in terms of equivalent performance per pound compared to high end equipment.

Can you recommend someone who can sensibly modify Audiolab amps ? In any case do you know how the current models differ from the old ones ?

Togil
03-02-2009, 07:23
If you post a pic of your updated Nuforce amps and if we can find a decent picture of the ones before it might be possible to work out what they changed and should give us an idea whats made it worse

Some mods/updates don't suit everybody;)

Everything was changed except the power supply.

jandl100
10-02-2009, 08:00
I've just bought a Bel Canto eVo4 power amp .... once again, what I would regard as a classic class D sound .... smooth, detailed, spacious & not a hint of harshness. :)

In my view, it would take serious engineering expertise to make a class D amp sound harsh - what have NuForce managed to do?! :scratch: :mental:

Togil
10-02-2009, 08:21
I've just bought a Bel Canto eVo4 power amp .... once again, what I would regard as a classic class D sound .... smooth, detailed, spacious & not a hint of harshness. :)

In my view, it would take serious engineering expertise to make a class D amp sound harsh - what have NuForce managed to do?! :scratch: :mental:

MC agrees that the Bel Canto treble is less distorted than others but he didn't like its lack of imaging and transparency.

I think Class D is initially impressive because it doesn't have the usual solid-state grain and in addition the Nuforces have that powerful grip in the bass so people think they are getting a Krell for a fraction of the price.