View Full Version : Transient exaltation
magiccarpetride
03-07-2012, 22:38
I've been observing an interesting phenomenon for some time now, wonder if any of you ever had similar experiences: quite a lot of my friends, old friends, new friends, acquaintances etc. get intrigued by my large Maggies (planar speakers). Some of them realize that these are speakers, some are clueless and are often surprised that there exist speakers that look so big and so flat.
Most of the time, people ask if they could listen to these big speakers, and what would be the difference in the sound. I'm always happy to oblige them, and 9 times out of 10, upon listening to my system, people get deeply impressed, even blown away by the life-like sound and the presentation.
That pleases me to no end; however, one thing that I find very peculiar is that most, if not almost all of these friends, upon visiting me the next time, never seem to ask for a repeat experience. As much as they've enjoyed the first listening to my system, the initial mind-blowing impression doesn't seem to stick with them. It would appear that the glowing reviews I'm typically getting are very transient by nature, and that majority of people quickly forget about that experience.
This is in sharp contrast to the long lasting experience that most people used to get upon viewing high definition TV screens (this is way back in the days when these TVs were still a rarity). I remember once someone saw the crystal clear image on the TV screen, they wanted to see more and more.
Interesting how visual stimuli seem to stick with most people, while aural stimuli fade away quickly.
Or were they just being polite the first time? Judging from all the HUGE differences you keep reporting I suggest your system is too intense/painful for others - why repeat pain?
WOStantonCS100
04-07-2012, 03:54
Or were they just being polite the first time? Judging from all the HUGE differences you keep reporting I suggest your system is too intense/painful for others - why repeat pain?
Seriously???? Maybe there is a joke in there I'm missing.
I have never forgotten my experience of listening to a friend's reference Maggie's; best I've ever heard bar none (that includes B&W's, Gallo's, Wilson's, etc. etc.). If not the last word on the lowest octaves, with correct room placement/treatment (if necessary) they easily were the most tonally accurate (timbre) and spatially correct (with awesome soundstaging) loudspeakers I have come across. They are the reason why I now have planar cans.
That statement kind of reminds me of listeners who think that good valve amps and vinyl playback should sound all soft, mushy and warm. On the contrary, properly designed valve amps and accurate vinyl playback should have plenty of detail, if that's what is on the master tapes, which quite often is the case.
daytona600
04-07-2012, 05:20
had the same time many a time over the years, play a song and people are very impressed but hardly ever ask for a repeat performance , but via same system & my big screen and play Any bluray people are knocked for six and always ask to see another movie visuals & music seems to impress people far more
I don't think many people are interested in listening to music, well not in the way that we on here do. Unless you are into your music in a big way, what is the point of going to the lengths we do.
Visual enjoyment combined with bone jarring dynamics are far more likely to impress, hence the request for another movie.
jandl100
04-07-2012, 07:07
Yep, ignore the 1st abominably rude reply above. :rolleyes:
____
I often find the same. My sister is clearly deeply impressed with my hifi system -- but has spent her money on a fancy hi-rez TV setup instead. I think visuals are more 'obviously' appealing to most folks.
We do live in a very visually-oriented culture - most advertising aligns with that preference, for example.
It's just us weirdos that good sound is important to. :eyebrows:
realysm42
04-07-2012, 07:20
I find it odd that none of my mates have anything near to equating to a hi fi setup when they all love music.
Wakefield Turntables
04-07-2012, 07:49
Or were they just being polite the first time? Judging from all the HUGE differences you keep reporting I suggest your system is too intense/painful for others - why repeat pain?
That's rude !
I think a lot of people simple can't be bothered to get a system sorted out or be arsed looking for the vinyl. :scratch:
I don't think many people are interested in listening to music, well not in the way that we on here do. Unless you are into your music in a big way, what is the point of going to the lengths we do.
Visual enjoyment combined with bone jarring dynamics are far more likely to impress, hence the request for another movie.
This is true, I have a friend who has an old but reasonable set up (Nad 3020 and KEF bookshelfs) but it is ruined by being badly set up with the speakers placed side by side in an alcove. He thinks I'm mad for suggesting such simple improvements as a cheap pair of stands, better cable or a budget dac. He has heard my gear many times and thinks my set ups are frivolous and wasteful, he insists he can't hear the difference. For the sake of our long standing friendship we've agreed to disagree as its not worth falling out over but we've had some heated discussions. I just cant understand why someone who could afford it wouldnt spend a hundred quid or so on improving what they've got, especially when i've seen that kind of money practically dropped on the pub floor:cool:
Listening to music is a background activity for the majority. There aren't many (like us) who "actively" listen. We're actually the odd ones! They will ask "why did he spend all that money on his sound system when it doesn't even have a TV or iPod dock?".
Also to be fair, it's very possibly to gain huge musical enjoyment from a low-end audio player. We all listen to quite differing musical or even technical aspects (which is why there are so many arguments) but the bares bones of music are there via almost any player.
walpurgis
04-07-2012, 09:30
I think it all boils down to the fact that Hi-Fi does not even register with the average person and although they may be impressed when they hear it, the experience does not leave a life changing impression! i.e. They have other priorities in life.
I think it all boils down to the fact that Hi-Fi does not even register with the average person
Yes, so it seems.
Is it age related. I couldn't wait to get to Tottenham Court Road in the 70s (TTR being the Mecca for hifi. A whole street of shops) and get my first "hifi" system. Anyone remember Laskys? There was one in Guildford that didn't actually open until the 80's, wasn't around long, but it was great to browse without feeling like you had to buy something.
Mind you for what I spent on a system in the 70s, you could get a whole lot better value and SQ now (oh no what have I have said - I can see another thread starting:eek)
Life is different now I guess.
daytona600
04-07-2012, 14:00
Laskys used to hang about all saturdays in the one in glasgow
they never had anything in my budget paper round did not pay very well
Lodgesound
04-07-2012, 17:03
The simple and sad fact is that music does'nt play the same part in people's lives as it once used to.
People crave wider and much more convenient stimuli now - in short they want the pictures to go with the sound and let's face it girls and boys..........most can get this from their phones now.
It's not right or wrong - it is simply evolution of our species and adaption to newer and (for most) much more accessible technology.
Music for music's sake now is of very little interest to a great majority of people - it just does'nt have the power and draw that it once seemed to have.
Luckily we still have choice can explore higher quality reproduction if we desire.
magiccarpetride
04-07-2012, 17:44
Music for music's sake now is of very little interest to a great majority of people - it just does'nt have the power and draw that it once seemed to have.
Interesting, I was recently watching one episode of the soap opera "Mad Men" where the main protagonist, the top advertising guy, was pitching an ad campaign. This was supposed to be happening around 1964-65 timeframe. Younger team members around him were all focused on which song should they pick for the ad, which prompted the middle aged executive to exclaim in exasperation: "Since when did the music become so important?!?"
Seems like we've now made the full circle. Back in 1950s music was just a pleasant backing in support of the more important content (a jingle, if you will). Then, during the 1960s, music became the main attraction. Today, music seems to have yet again taken the back seat, and got delegated to play the second fiddle.
Makes me wonder if these changes are cyclical?
bobbasrah
04-07-2012, 18:04
Interesting, I was recently watching one episode of the soap opera "Mad Men" where the main protagonist, the top advertising guy, was pitching an ad campaign. This was supposed to be happening around 1964-65 timeframe. Younger team members around him were all focused on which song should they pick for the ad, which prompted the middle aged executive to exclaim in exasperation: "Since when did the music become so important?!?"
Seems like we've now made the full circle. Back in 1950s music was just a pleasant backing in support of the more important content (a jingle, if you will). Then, during the 1960s, music became the main attraction. Today, music seems to have yet again taken the back seat, and got delegated to play the second fiddle.
Makes me wonder if these changes are cyclical?
Careful now, these are measureable terms used on assumptions therefore the objective police may be be calling....:eyebrows:
Subjectively, music has always connected with different people in different ways and always will. It is not an age or technology thing, it never was...;)
I've one friend who doesn't like the sound of my system, he says it sounds 'too real' :scratch: I'm not offended however. He really likes the sound of his cheapo Sony midi system. I have to admit it is quite an impressive sounding bit of kit for what it is although it does sound a bit loose and flabby to my ears. It produces prodigious amounts of bass even if it is quite 'nightclubby' in nature and the speakers look rather cool with blue-coned bass/mids to top and bottom of the cabs and what looks like a metal domed tweeter inbetween.
Yep, ignore the 1st abominably rude reply above. :rolleyes:
____
I often find the same. My sister is clearly deeply impressed with my hifi system -- but has spent her money on a fancy hi-rez TV setup instead. I think visuals are more 'obviously' appealing to most folks.
We do live in a very visually-oriented culture - most advertising aligns with that preference, for example.
It's just us weirdos that good sound is important to. :eyebrows:
I love people who exagerate for effect, like MagicC. Which words are abominably rude ? Perhaps I should have said 'uncomfortable' rather than 'pain' but I thought I would exagerate like some others here do. I suggest that whilst you are in love, smitten with your and MagicC kit it is uncomfortable to listen to for the first time by others, being too "real", yet not real. Most people have not heard live music and they may find that uncomfortable too.
That's rude !
I think a lot of people simple can't be bothered to get a system sorted out or be arsed looking for the vinyl. :scratch:
As I said to ther other poster perhaps I should have used uncomfortable rather than pain.
What makes you think the a lot of people can't be bothered..... and certainly would use vinyl. Most people have different priorites and activities they enjoy. There is so much to choose from rather than when HiFi had it's initial bust of growth. Perhaps like MagicC you find it hard to be in someone elses shoes see the world as they do
morris_minor
06-07-2012, 16:16
Listening to music is a background activity for the majority. There aren't many (like us) who "actively" listen.
I think this is quite right. Music is everywhere, music is cheap, so why pay particular notice of it? It makes you wonder what kind of enjoyment people get from music when it's never the centre of their attention . . :scratch:
It amazes when I hear some awful "noise" coming along the street, to then see a "youf" or Youves with one of them holding a phone with this godawful screech coming out of it. I suspect we are meant to be impressed at his choice of music, as he clearly needs everyone to hear it.
magiccarpetride
06-07-2012, 18:59
This is true, I have a friend who has an old but reasonable set up (Nad 3020 and KEF bookshelfs) but it is ruined by being badly set up with the speakers placed side by side in an alcove. He thinks I'm mad for suggesting such simple improvements as a cheap pair of stands, better cable or a budget dac. He has heard my gear many times and thinks my set ups are frivolous and wasteful, he insists he can't hear the difference. For the sake of our long standing friendship we've agreed to disagree as its not worth falling out over but we've had some heated discussions. I just cant understand why someone who could afford it wouldnt spend a hundred quid or so on improving what they've got, especially when i've seen that kind of money practically dropped on the pub floor:cool:
Yeah, I find that odd too. My semi-audiophile friend surprised me last week when he turned down my offer to lend him my old Caiman DAC for a few weeks, if he wanted to compare it to the sound of the analog outs on his vanilla SBT player. Even though this was a free offer, and we're real close friends, he said he had no time for that. Srsly?
daytona600
09-07-2012, 11:06
have a couple of musician mates that have heard my system lots of times
they all like it , but they all have midi systems/Ipods , none above 300quid
they are more interested in the way the music is played rather than the way it sounds
But the same guys would not think of dropping a couple of grand on the right guitar in a heartbeat
A number of musicians I know have no intereste in hi-fi. One said "why spend so much on all that stuff when I can catch it live for $50 or less?"
$50? Depends on the band but this conversation must have been a long time ago!
A few years, and yes, it depends on the band (and the seats, and the venue), but it does mean not spending $40000 on hi-fi gear and still not being satisfied that it sounds like the real thing. It never will, of course.
The Vinyl Adventure
10-07-2012, 10:26
I've one friend who doesn't like the sound of my system, he says it sounds 'too real' :scratch: I'm not offended however. He really likes the sound of his cheapo Sony midi system. I have to admit it is quite an impressive sounding bit of kit for what it is although it does sound a bit loose and flabby to my ears. It produces prodigious amounts of bass even if it is quite 'nightclubby' in nature and the speakers look rather cool with blue-coned bass/mids to top and bottom of the cabs and what looks like a metal domed tweeter inbetween.
the lastest incarnation ... http://www.sony.co.uk/product/hmi-ipod-hi-fi/mhc-ec99i
They have been making things similar for a while now ... I used to (not) sell them at the shop ...
I was reprimanded by my boss once after telling one of my regulars that it was "A god awful pile of shit that represented all that was wrong with not only hifi, but society as a whole" ... I think it was a fair statement, my customer agreed, my boss didnt (good margin)
morris_minor
10-07-2012, 10:33
the lastest incarnation ... http://www.sony.co.uk/product/hmi-ipod-hi-fi/mhc-ec99i
They have been making things similar for a while now ... I used to (not) sell them at the shop ...
I was reprimanded by my boss once after telling one of my regulars that it was "A god awful pile of shit that represented all that was wrong with not only hifi, but society as a whole" ... I think it was a fair statement, my customer agreed, my boss didnt (good margin)
"40mm horn tweeter to fill any room with rich blasting bass"
:lol:
And the power output quoted at 10% THD! Mmmm, 10% THD....
Ali Tait
10-07-2012, 13:57
Whassat stand for? Total Heap of Doodoo?
magiccarpetride
10-07-2012, 16:37
have a couple of musician mates that have heard my system lots of times
they all like it , but they all have midi systems/Ipods , none above 300quid
they are more interested in the way the music is played rather than the way it sounds
But the same guys would not think of dropping a couple of grand on the right guitar in a heartbeat
I'm the same (or, I used to be the same). Primarily a guitar (and a bass) player, I've always found it easy to justify expensive guitar and amp purchases.
As a musician, I am very interested in the way music is played, because not only do I learn from it, but it gives me a lot of pleasure to hear various ways people play. But I've discovered that a good hi fi is not only about the way music sounds, it is also very much about the way the music is played.
For example, with the latest addition of Beresford Bushmaster DAC, I can now hear much better how the Beatles played their songs, how McCartney played his bass, etc. The devil is in the details, and you really do need a very resolving gear in order to hear all those vitally important intricate details.
This is why many musicians surprise me when they claim they can fill in those little details. No they can't!
I'm the same (or, I used to be the same). Primarily a guitar (and a bass) player, I've always found it easy to justify expensive guitar and amp purchases.
As a musician, I am very interested in the way music is played, because not only do I learn from it, but it gives me a lot of pleasure to hear various ways people play. But I've discovered that a good hi fi is not only about the way music sounds, it is also very much about the way the music is played.
For example, with the latest addition of Beresford Bushmaster DAC, I can now hear much better how the Beatles played their songs, how McCartney played his bass, etc. The devil is in the details, and you really do need a very resolving gear in order to hear all those vitally important intricate details.
This is why many musicians surprise me when they claim they can fill in those little details. No they can't!
Magic
Might it be possible that as people are different, just because you need great detail does not mean everyone else is the same. And they play pleasureablely. Some people enjoy the impressionist painters rather than technical detail drawings.
Others fill in the details from their intuition rather than from copying as you do.
We are not all clones of eachother
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