View Full Version : Stillpoints LPI Record Weight
The Stillpoints LPI (LP Isolator) is a relatively heavy record weight with moving parts! Underneath are five pads that rest on the record label, each isolated from the main weight by hidden points consisting of small ceramic balls. The idea is that tiny vibrations in the record are minimised by sinking them to 'earth', represented by the weight itself.
The Stillpoints LPI weighs 670g compared with the 380g of my standard Bruil weight.
http://www.mtc.me.uk/images/StillpointsLPI.jpg
In use, the LPI has a subtle but repeatable effect: it brings up tiny detail into the soundstage, detail which I hadn't noticed before. Switching between the Bruil and LPI, I could hear the latter subtly bringing up microdetail and presenting them without any other tonal changes. Over a period of listening I became aware of the soundstage going a little wider and deeper, too. Returning to the Bruil is enlightening and that extra sense of magic is lost.
I am now listening to music from the study and can hear playback sounding more vivid than before. I have learned over the years that listening from another room is very informative and the LPI certainly adds some life to well known recordings.
This is an upgrade for the record completist who already has a well sorted deck. It suits my Technics very well and would probably suit many other non-suspended decks. I doubt that suspended decks would like it much though, due to its weight.
With many thanks to Dave Brooks of Mains Cables R Us (http://www.mains-cables-r-us.co.uk/) for the loan, which I am negotiating to keep!
Always wondered how good that little beauty was. Thanks for the review Martin.
Interesting, Martin. How much is it? I can't find the item in question on David's website...
Marco.
Ammonite Audio
05-06-2012, 15:53
Interesting. As a long time enthusiastic user of Stillpoints products, I shall have to investigate this when I return from my travels.
Looking at the Jubilee coverage on the telly, I see that it's been a tad cool in Blighty. It's around 45C here!
Hugo - glad you're doing well over there, mate. You've been missed!
Marco - I believe Dave is still working out the price with the importer. I'm sure he'll be along soon to enlighten us.
prestonchipfryer
05-06-2012, 15:58
I would also be interested, please. :)
Interesting. As a long time enthusiastic user of Stillpoints products, I shall have to investigate this when I return from my travels.
Great to hear from you. Glad you're doing ok. Stay safe out there, dude, and see you back soon! :)
Martin, ah, no worries. No doubt we'll find out from David, in due course.
Btw, not meaning to put a dampener on things, but have you listened for any negative sonic effect, caused by the added mass of the heavier weight on the Techy's drive system? Remember what we discovered with the MN platter, in that respect, when comparing it to the Funk one? :eek: ;)
Just be careful that there are NO downsides to using this clamp. It's so easy to take a wrong turn with these things, mate, and simply hear benefits without realising that it may only be a compromise. If you conclude that there are no downsides, and keep the Stillpoints, we'll have a play with record weights next time I'm down :cool:
Marco.
I've been listening quite a lot before posting anything here just to avoid that 'new component' effect. It's certainly a heavier weight, but nowhere near as heavy as some of the platters I've used in the past. I'm reasonably confident that I can't hear a downside.
In any case, I would advocate that anyone wanting to try one arrange a loan or at least a money-back guarantee in order to ensure that it suits their deck.
Coolio... Just thought I'd mention it to make sure :)
Often, in the past when I've used high-mass record weights, I've detected a 'heaviness' and recessed quality in the midrange, and 'thickness' in the bass, making rhythms plod along rather ponderously, instead of being quick and snappy, as they should do. Therefore, if the Stillpoints weight isn't doing that, and instead some rather nice things, then you've won a watch! :cool:
Marco.
StanleyB
06-06-2012, 08:48
I experimented with weights of varying weight and on different type of decks. I found heavy weights to affect floating a chassis. But I haven't read anywhere about anyone else doing similar kind of experiments. So it might well be worth keeping that in mind and check if my findings tie up with the experience of anyone else.
krugdoktor
06-06-2012, 09:19
Why not try a Kuzma Ebony Clamp (which is a "simple" weight without a clamping mechanism). It weighs only 315g. It's also reversible with differing sound characteristics. I am very happy with it. Only downside is the price, but I have yet to see a cheap product from Stillpoints!
Michael
I have recently experimented with weights of the same design but differing in how tightly they press on the record. I recently had a clamp made to my design. However, I recently made another version that clamped the record with about 20% greater force (my clamp design does not rely on weight to clamp the record). Both clamps were made from the same materials and contacted the record in exactly the same way (same diameter and same contact patch with the record label). I fitted the newer clamp and noted much the same qualities that Martin describes. However, about a week ago I thought I would give the earlier clamp I had made another go. Much to my surprise I found that I preferred it and for very much the reasons Marco describes. In comparison, the 'heavier' clamp gave a perception of greater clarity but this seemed to be because it was editing out some of the finer nuances.
Interesting, Mark. I'll have another comparison test tomorrow night, just to be clear on my findings.
Martin, I would suggest you live with it for a bit if you can. When I initially A/B compared them I felt I preferred the stronger clamp - but after a few weeks of using it I was surprised how obvious the difference was when changing back to the lighter clamp.
Indeed. Very interesting, Mark...
I wouldn't rule out the Stillpoints, because I haven't used it, but I've yet to prefer a high-mass record clamp, to a lighter one, on the Techy, when fitted with anything else other than the stock platter. Mass-wise, the Bruil record weight is perfect, and does exactly what it should do.
In terms of the high-mass route, I'm referring to the combination of the (ultra-heavy) Oyaide record weight (and T/T mat), which works superbly well with the stock platter.
However, that's the exception to the rule, as heavy record weights/clamps normally, like you say, increase clarity and intelligibility slightly, but at the expense of killing the excitement and interest in the music, certainly in my experience, when used on the Techy.
Also, depending on how much the Stillpoints costs, would for me determine its viability as a value for money T/T accessory, based on my usual criteria for SPPV.
Marco.
$500 in the US
(the Kuzma is $700!)
If that's what David is intending on charging, then I wouldn't entertain buying one, as there are other things I'd rather spend that sort of money on.
Marco.
krugdoktor
06-06-2012, 16:30
WOW!! did not remember the exact sum that bought my Kuzma clamp (it was a birthday present from my wife..you see: TRUE LOVE ;)) Its in the price bracket with Harmonix. But there is an alternative: http://www.fairaudio.de/test/phono/2010/test-platten-klemme-hifi-tuning-vro-1.html
Got a glowing review and works on a similar principle
Michael
The stillpoints clamp sells for £440.00, sorry I have been away for a few days, I have used it myself on my 401 but was un-sure as to what I was hearing, taking it off I missed it badly, which is unusual for a 401 as normally weights don't make much of a difference, I sent it to Martin purely for an evaluation on a well sorted Techy as mine is in bits currently, I knew if Martin thought it was good then I would use it myself on my Tech when it's back up and working (currently fitting a new PSU and Vantage platter as well as a new arm).
So it may be classed as expensive to some but for those who want the best it's competitively priced for what it does, as I have always said with any hi-fi purchase whether it be a £25 set of blue horizon spiked shoes or an £1800 furutech tone-arm cable, use it and if it gives you the improvements commensurate with money paid keep it, if not send it back, simples!
BTW I have another stillpoints weight for anyone who wants a listen. It is not on my website yet as Hamish is doing some up-grades to my site currently.
Martin you have a pm off me.
If that's what David is intending on charging, then I wouldn't entertain buying one, as there are other things I'd rather spend that sort of money on.
Marco.
Dude, stillpoints have RRP's like everyone else, I charge what they tell me to charge. I am quite surprised you would dismiss anything for the Tech without hearing it first.
Yo daftee,
Dude, stillpoints have RRP's like everyone else, I charge what they tell me to charge.
I wasn't implying that you weren't; merely that you hadn't indicated its price, either here or on your website.
I am quite surprised you would dismiss anything for the Tech without hearing it first.
I really do wish that folk would read what I write properly, as I always take sufficient time to ensure that the points I'm making are crystal clear! :doh:
What part of this constitutes as 'dismissing' the Stillpoints:
I wouldn't rule out the Stillpoints, because I haven't used it...
I'm merely expressing my legitimate reservations, based on considerable experience of using high-mass record weights on the Techy. Or am I not allowed to do that?
Anyway, I hope that it does the business for Martin. Personally, there's no way I'd ever pay that much for a record weight, as any improvements gained by using such devices, can only ever be subtle.
For £440, I want a damn sight more than 'subtle'!!
...such as the SPD-4 or 423.5 Phono Litz tonearm cable, from Greece, delivers ;)
Marco.
no problemo dude
you may wish to consider the stillpoints equipment rack though, a steal at £7685.00 and going up to £13,756.00 for the top of the range one.
http://www.ultraaudio.com/equipment/pics/201003_stillpointsrack.jpg
Reid Malenfant
07-06-2012, 14:51
you may wish to consider the stillpoints equipment rack though, a steal at £7685.00 and going up to £13,756.00 for the top of the range one.
http://www.ultraaudio.com/equipment/pics/201003_stillpointsrack.jpg
Looks more interesting than a load of scaffolding :)
Maybe you get a team of builders included in the selling price to assemble it correctly :lol:
no problemo dude
you may wish to consider the stillpoints equipment rack though, a steal at £7685.00 and going up to £13,756.00 for the top of the range one.
http://www.ultraaudio.com/equipment/pics/201003_stillpointsrack.jpg
Utter lunacy; priced simply for those who have more going on inside their wallets, than in their heads! ;)
Marco.
Reid Malenfant
07-06-2012, 15:52
Utter lunacy; priced simply for those who have more going on inside their wallets, than in their heads! ;)
Marco.
I have to agree, it doesn't even keep the dust away unlike my fridge :D
That also cost far less, maybe £100 :cool:
Don't get me wrong, I don't mind paying for quality equipment or ancillaries, which offer the highest possible sonic return on my financial investment (the contents of my system reflect this), but most definitely NOT when I *know* that the pricing of said items is more, erm, 'inventive' than realistic! :mental: :nono:
Marco.
daytona600
08-06-2012, 15:51
could i try a stillpoints please , kids round at the weekend and cant find my record puck , wonder if the two are connected
could i try a stillpoints please , kids round at the weekend and cant find my record puck , wonder if the two are connected
You do realize if you fall in love with it the wife won't let you buy it unless she gets a new handbag and matching shoes? :lol:
I've been making some more comparisons back and forth between the Bruil and Stillpoints weights and I'm content that the latter will continue to be used daily. It just has the edge in fine detail and soundstage portrayal. Not a lot in it, but better nevertheless.
What is the weight difference between the two?
Stratmangler
08-08-2012, 12:54
What is the weight difference between the two?
The Stillpoints LPI weighs 670g compared with the 380g of my standard Bruil weight. .
Ah, thanks Chris - didn't see that.
Well, to be honest, I would expect this weight difference to account for the difference in sound between the two weights as opposed to the inserts the Stillpoint uses. I am surprised that the heavier weight is preferred though.
Ah, thanks Chris - didn't see that.
Well, to be honest, I would expect this weight difference to account for the difference in sound between the two weights as opposed to the inserts the Stillpoint uses. I am surprised that the heavier weight is preferred though.
or you could just admit that the stillpoints may be better because of it's design kind sir? :)
do you use any sort of weight on that spankingly sexy looking turntable of yours mate? I tried a few on my 401 and they don't seem to offer tangible improvements, the stillpoints did change the sound slightly but it's still early days as I have not had much time to do a good listening test with it, the oyaide was a waste of time and the michell clamp no good either, it must differ for each TT maybe?
looking forward to showing that poster off soon!
Well, I would say that if I thought that to be the case. However, as I wrote, I think the difference is more likely to be due to the greater weight. I have found that the biggest differences come from the force the weight/clamp forces the record into contact with the platter and the way that bearing noise is communicated, via the weight/clamp to the record (the Stillpoint design may impact on this later aspect).
I don't have a problem with the Stillpoint design as such, but I have tried a similar thing myself (even using ceramic balls) and I didn't find that, of itself, it did much of benefit. However, this way in conjunction with my own deck that does use an inherently very low noise bearing.
I do use a clamp of sorts, but it's not a weight as such and has low mass (which I found to work better than the higher mass versions I made). It actually works in quite a novel manner; but its purpose is really just to control the pressure with which the record makes contact with the supporting mat.
I'm looking forward to the show too :) - should be there on Sunday.
I've been making some more comparisons back and forth between the Bruil and Stillpoints weights and I'm content that the latter will continue to be used daily. It just has the edge in fine detail and soundstage portrayal. Not a lot in it, but better nevertheless.
Apart from the price - LOL! ;)
Pleased that you're happy with it, though :cool:
Marco.
Some small gains come cheap, Marco, and some come reassuringly expensive :)
I didn't really set out to buy such a product, but it all adds to the mix and I'm glad I have one.
walpurgis
08-08-2012, 21:32
Has anybody considered the adverse effects of heavy record weights? Like the influence on main bearing wear and the fact that any existing rocking moment in the platter and shaft during rotation will be exacerbated. For these reasons I use a stabiliser of modest mass but good damping.
Not concerned at all. Have you seen a Mike New bearing up close?
RobbieGong
08-08-2012, 21:48
Not concerned at all. Have you seen a Mike New bearing up close?
Would probably take three house bricks rotating constantly for about 15 years to trouble that thing :lol:
walpurgis
08-08-2012, 22:29
Time will tell, but I've seen many worn out main bearings over the years. The last one I replaced was a VPI item and that was not cheap!
How beefy, or well machined, the bearing is isn't really relevant to bearing wear; at least, not tip wear in a typical turntable bearing. This is usually the product of the relative hardness of the two contacting surfaces. Not whether they are both hard, or soft, but how one compares to the other. Inevitably, the harder will wear the softer.
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