View Full Version : Active, a Professional approach.
Alright, I admit it, I’ve always had Pro audio leanings preferring in general to take advice from engineers and those involved in the production of what we listen to, rather than the often delusional musings of some Hi Fi journalist or domestic pretty box supplier.
I recently had the opportunity to tag along behind a mate as he traveled to various studios and filming locations attempting to record stuff. Apart from getting in the way lots and asking loads of questions I got to listen to some gear that just doesn’t seem to feature on the Hi Fi forums.
Now somewhere buried beneath the wardrobe and bottle lovers on this forum are a few who have ventured into the world of active monitors. Sooo, I thought I might try to point those considering going active at a range that I’m pretty sure hasn’t had a mention on these forums.
Basically, take one talented audio engineer, one of the top pro amp designers and the best bass driver designer in the business and you get something like these.
http://www.quested.com/
http://www.quested.com/pdfs/Roger%20Quested%20interview.pdf
Okay, you noticed, this kit isn’t cheap. You don’t even get any bullshit ffs; just solid design and simply stunning audio reproduction. Yep, I agree, they don’t look all that, no feckin great lumps of metal hanging off the amps and no carefully harvested, we fought 60 Amazonian warriors to bring you this absolutely delightful hardwood veneer finish etc.
If you can get over these small considerations (well after all, we all know none of us care a bit how the kit looks) this could well be your ticket into serious sound quality and out of the grip of domestic Hi Fi.
Reid Malenfant
21-05-2012, 17:39
Yes, Quested make very good equipment :) If I hadn't have gone down the DIY route I may well have gone the Quested route, or similar :cool:
The thing is though is by going DIY you can end up with a set of speakers that leave the Questeds or ATCs or big PMCs in the dust & for a cheaper price if you put the work in ;)
hoopsontoast
21-05-2012, 18:18
The Volt 8" (BM220.8 based or OEM) is a darling, very neutral even running up to 2-3kHz and can go very loud and clean-
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5307/5627278576_46ee4d15a8_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/hoopsontoast/5627278576/)
Kord Tornado (http://www.flickr.com/photos/hoopsontoast/5627278576/) by hoopsontoast (http://www.flickr.com/people/hoopsontoast/), on Flickr
I believe that the Quested amps are re-badged MC2? Not a bad thing mind.
realysm42
21-05-2012, 18:59
What's the blutac on the tweeter all about?
The original Vulcan speaker had a nasty spike at 3K - the main driver being asked to go up too far. Swap the scansqueak tweeter for the larger one, take the crossover down to under 3K and you might get somewhere...
Back to actives - you can get some good small ones for well under a grand but bigger means much more money sadly...
hoopsontoast
21-05-2012, 19:09
The tornado's were really good with the stock tweeter/xover IMO, and as it happens, should be getting some Vulcans later in the week.
Do you know much about them?
The Blutak was a previous owner had fitted some very nice ScanSpeak D2905/9300 tweeters but not changed the Xover, and the holes were bigger, so fitting the original ScanSpeak ones left a few small holes, hence the Blutak.
I had the Tornado's at the 2011 Scalford Show, really liked them :)
Lodgesound
22-05-2012, 09:46
I started using active and professional equipment in my home back in 1994 and hav'nt looked back really.
I find you get performance of a fixed and uniformly high standard which is what I needed particularly when I built the mastering room which although quite small has 1.5Kw per channel (class A) fed to the monitors - because the system never really has to work the resulting sound is extremely clear and undistorted.
The danger is that it never really sounds loud even at dangerously high listening levels which is a problem when dealing with professional monitoring.
As you say Welder the cost of professional systems particularly on the second hand market is incredibly low against the performance you can achieve - I only paid £200 for the Hill Chameleon amplifier which was over ten times that when new.
maybe we should have a "Good, bad & Ugly" kind of thread for pro gear, since it's under the radar for many domestic HiFi enthusiasts. i know some of the stuff is all blood-n-guts with no finesse, but I think there is some which is superb. Some may not, but I still rate the 1970's Crown D series of amps (and even the IC150 preamp after some cheap fettling), as long as the load isn't cruel, although these are positively pedestrian in power output now. The MC2 power amp for sale here should be so good that no Naim of any age could look it in the face, yet it's ignored because it lacks the domestic cachet that sells this stuff, rather than performance.
Back to actives - you definitely remove one potential source of issues (the passive crossover) but then open the window further into the drive unit's performance and of course, some of the little amps in cheapo actives are pretty mediochre, even bearing in mind the comparatively easy job they have to do.
hoopsontoast
22-05-2012, 10:06
David, do you know much about the Kord speaker history?
All I have managed to gather is that they went bust mid 80's and Wilmslow Audio bought the rights to the Tornado, and it became their Home Studio monitor kit.
I haven't heard anything like the range of Naim amps Dave (DSJR) probably has but some of the MC2 amps I have heard I would happily put up against anything I've seen on these forums.
Anyway, while some may drool over large Tannoys, i recently heard these and they get described as mid field monitors; I'm beginning to understand why many recording engineers are deaf! :D
Absolutely stunning power, very easy to listen to and of course about as accurate as it gets.
They ain't small and they ain't pretty but at around two and half grand, i reckon they would seriously embarrass some of the ten grand domestic speaker and amp combos we get to see on these forums.
http://www.pricerunner.co.uk/pi/92-2623781/Speakers/Quested-V3110-Black-Product-Info
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/sep10/articles/quested-v3110.htm
http://www.millennium-music.co.uk/recording-studio-equipment/studio-monitoring/speaker-stands
( I think I can feel my welding kit calling me :eek: )
David, do you know much about the Kord speaker history?
All I have managed to gather is that they went bust mid 80's and Wilmslow Audio bought the rights to the Tornado, and it became their Home Studio monitor kit.
Only the Vulkan, which sounded a bit rough to me. I think the bass-mid was asked to work up too high and the tweeter a bit too low. Volt do still make some great drivers I'm told and the ones in my huge old early 80's Celefs were pretty mean (10" from memory).
P.S. I only heard one pair of Questeds some years ago and found them a little spatially "flat" for me. I'm sure things have significantly moved on now and I reckon it's the amps used mostly that may be to blame. The three way ATC 50's and 100A's are great to me, but totally outclassed by the 200A's, which were not only more power per driver, but had the bass-lower mid shared by a pair of drivers (horizontally situated on these soffit versions). Gawd, they were awsome and NOT really something to kick back and relax to :lol:
P.S. I only heard one pair of Questeds some years ago and found them a little spatially "flat" for me. I'm sure things have significantly moved on now and I reckon it's the amps used mostly that may be to blame. The three way ATC 50's and 100A's are great to me, but totally outclassed by the 200A's, which were not only more power per driver, but had the bass-lower mid shared by a pair of drivers (horizontally situated on these soffit versions). Gawd, they were awsome and NOT really something to kick back and relax to :lol:
May well be true regarding the Questeds Dave although I cant say i noticed it with the set i heard.
I'll get another listen next week with the Volt Subs........may need to take ear defenders. ;)
Im sorry boys but I just cant see this pro stuff is better and cheaper thing. ATC actives are fortunes as are the Adams and all the other large pro brand active speakers. some of the speaker stands that Welder linked to are into four figures. Im not sure that the pricing or the products change anything for home audiophiles at all. Good kit is expensive and pro users have o pay the price just as you do.
I'm trying to stay out of this one because all of the Pro amps I've heard so far (Crown and MC2), to me, have sounded as musically flat as a witch's tit (that horrible grainy and 'grey', overly 'controlled' sound, which I associate with high-damping factor/high-feedback SS design), in comparison with what I'm used to, and so I'm sorry, but I wouldn't give house room to any of the pro amps I've heard so far.
I live in hope, though, that someone, some day, will introduce me to ones that I like! :)
Marco.
P.S Darren, any chance that you could change your avatar and the reference you've made to it, as I've had complaints from some people who have found it offensive. Cheers, dude! :cool:
I think that’s the idea Marco, good amps aren’t supposed to have a sound. I’m not quite sure about the grey and grainy bit, ruthless at revealing problems at source, but that’s why the Pros use them.
I’ve been rather impressed with the stuff I’ve heard recently but I can understand it not being to everyone’s taste. I like it, but then I really like the lack of coloration that I hear from good digital while others seem to hate it.
Anyway, I’m not seeking to get into a debate; just suggesting that for those who may be interested in going active for a relatively modest outlay the above are definitely worth considering. There’s enough digital v analogue nonsense going on here as it is.
Let me put it like this; there is a brand of active that causes a few raised voices on this forum which apparently sell quite well, I rather fancy the Quested stuff would outperform them and the price is similar.
Yep, as you quite rightly note Darren a lot of it isn’t exactly cheap.
I’ve just picked this particular model out because I’ve heard it and thought it not only excellent value for money bought as a new product compared too much of the domestic kit I’ve heard at this price band and above.
I can’t help thinking if the Quested model I mentioned in the OP was more widely available for demo many of those who might invest that sort of money in a solid state digital system might prefer what these units can do to some of the more conventional domestic Hi Fi products.
jandl100
24-05-2012, 06:53
I agree with Marco that the pro amps I have heard have been flat and lacking 'dynamic sophistication', for want of a better term coming to mind. I tried a BK after being seduced by similar pro-Pro comments on the fora; yes, it could go (very) loud for not much money, but there is more to music than that. Similar comments, but to a lesser degree and somewhat differently, apply to semi-Pro Yamaha amps I have owned.
We seem to be heading a little into the my kit is bigger, errr - I mean louder, than yours.
Very macho.
So what if you need ear defenders? Is that a good thing? :scratch:
I've never felt the need for ear defenders at any of the many live concerts - classical or rock - that I have been to.
anthonyTD
24-05-2012, 07:49
I agree with Marco that the pro amps I have heard have been flat and lacking 'dynamic sophistication', for want of a better term coming to mind. I tried a BK after being seduced by similar pro-Pro comments on the fora; yes, it could go (very) loud for not much money, but there is more to music than that. Similar comments, but to a lesser degree and somewhat differently, apply to semi-Pro Yamaha amps I have owned.
We seem to be heading a little into the my kit is bigger, errr - I mean louder, than yours.
Very macho.
So what if you need ear defenders? Is that a good thing? :scratch:
I've never felt the need for ear defenders at any of the many live concerts - classical or rock - that I have been to.
:)
I have, and now suffer the consequences :(
Things move on, but the limitation with huge pro systems for me was that they just didn't "do" very low levels very well. To get the big picture in all its glory, you need to turn it up, in which case the full spectrum in the mix is reproduced in all its glory. I understand the excellent (I'm informed) big Barefoot monitors are like this. Absolutely devastating when turned up, but flat as a pancake when the gain is reduced..
As for amps. I think it's a matter of degree. The Crown D series I've directly compared with a Croft Series 7 (D150 and DC300A) at Dave's sound just as good to me, bearing in mind uncertain history and good hard travelling in the case of the 150 sample, carbon film 10% resistors everywhere (apart from some then very expensive 1% ones in critical parts). I can't speak for later Chinese made "Harman" Crowns, which don't have anywhere near the reputation for sonics or reliability, but my bridged D-60's are fine with the BC2's and easily reproduce differences in sources, driving preamps and the bits of wire that joins it all together :) Put it this way, If I was in the market for a used power amp for a change for under £500, it would either be a DC300A from Audiobrokers on ebay, or possibly a Quad 606/520F depending on what was available - the 520f isn't sleeping any more and is rocketing in value of its a good one. The MC2 available on here would be great as well, although I'd be terrified of melting the Spendors, the main drivers of which cannot now be repaired..
of course, we haven't even started towards Marco's journey here - well fettled vintage Tannoys with a good valve amp to drive them. I believe EMI in the early 70's used 15" MG's in Chatsworth or Lockwood cabs (did they use Fostex drivers in the 60's?), placed on tables around 3' off the ground and with a 303 I believe on the floor driving them...
I’ve been rather impressed with the stuff I’ve heard recently but I can understand it not being to everyone’s taste. I like it, but then I really like the lack of coloration that I hear from good digital while others seem to hate it.
LIFE has coloration (and distortion), mate, and so do the sound of real instruments and voices... 'Accurate' amps (and other audio equipment), therefore, don't suck the life out of recorded music, which to my ears, is what all the Pro amps do, which I've heard, due to their high damping and feedback factor. Genuinely 'accurate' amps replicate the natural colorations present in live sound.
However, you wouldn't necessarily realise the effect until you've heard an amp which measures accurately, but stays faithful to the music. Looked at superficially, it might seem an easy thing to achieve, but in reality, it's a tricky balancing act for a designer to get right, and exactly why basic measurement parameters don't tell the full story, and why final voicing by ear is necessary, with all good equipment design.
Basically, there's what one could describe as 'natural coloration', and 'false coloration', (the latter is where the sonic signature of an amp's electrical circuit is overly imbued on music reproduced). The best amps, therefore, retain the former 'natural coloration' (and also the 'life' of the reproduced sound), but produce a minimal amount of 'false coloration', thus keeping the music signal as intact as possible, and therefore the resulting sound of the amp is realistic and believable, in the final analysis, when heard through the partnering system, reproducing recorded music.
In effect, 'musically accurate' amps don't rob the life from recordings, in the quest for the lowest distortion figures. Achieving a flat frequency response up to 100khz is great, as long as the resulting sound from the amp isn't similarly as 'flat' (as in 'lifeless' and lacking in dynamic contrast). It's all to easy getting bogged down with achieving 'textbook measurements', and thus sometimes losing sight of the bigger picture... ;)
Anyway, yes, let's not get into a debate about it. You like what you like, and I like what I like - it all seems reasonable to me! :cool:
Marco.
anthonyTD
24-05-2012, 09:05
While we are on the subject,
A few things I would like to comment on, There has been a mention in a few threads here of late about badly recorded albums and era's of known bad or " couldn’t care less" engineering, well, from my own personal experience I really believe that most sound engineers do care about their mastering and do try their very best with the tools they have at hand, unfortunately a lot of what people feel is the ideal equipment for playing back recorded music on i.e.; "STUDIO QUALITY" is in a lot of cases responsible for what we hear and feel are the mistakes of the studio engineer.
Example, in my opinion some of the best and real life like recordings were done early on in the first introduction of stereo, therefore I feel its no coincidence that these recordings when played on equipment of similar quality and circuit topology sound as fresh and alive today as they must have done when first heard. Recording engineers on the whole do care about what they are trying to achieve, its the design mentality of the equipment designers from those "bad era’s” days that I feel are responsible for the Rubbish recordings that no matter what you play them on afterwards will sound Rubbish, certainly there is equipment out there that may flatter these flawed engineered masterpieces,:doh: but as some have said here, you cannot replace information, or repair what has been done by the playback and monitoring equipment of those days.
One example, I have a friend who was a studio engineer in one of the biggest studios in London, he got so jaded by the whole “ modern studio” affair especially when the level wars started taking off big time that he left, and now records bands at his home using equipment and techniques that he feels maintains more of the atmosphere and reality of the musicians he deals with, some actually come to him to have their albums re-recorded after hearing what is easily possible when first, the engineer actually cares, and two he is able to use equipment and techniques that allows their music to be recorded and captured for all time in a way that retains MORE of the energy and "real feel" of the day.
Now I am not saying that all modern Studio equipment is bad or responsible for all the bad recordings we have to put up with, on the contrary, a lot of the modern stuff is very capable, especially in the digital domain, however, just because certain equipment has been used in studio monitoring in the past, don’t assume that it had anything to do with some of the better recordings out there, and just because a power amp or active speaker from the “ Studio Range” has enough power to seriously damage your hearing in a few minuets, don’t assume that’s all that’s necessary to achieve the best recordings we have all witnessed from time to time, e.g., If the first Watt is bad, why would you need another 1KW.
By careful auditioning of equipment it is possible to extract more of what the engineer intended, if you rely solely on individuals recommendations who may or may not have [for what ever reason known to them] a vested interest in your choice, then I fear your not really trying, or being true to yourself.
Anthony,TD...
Cor, an awful lot of assumptions about what I might be thinking and what I didn’t write going on here. :eek:
I was quite careful in how I titled this thread and surprisingly restrained for me in not making too many assertions that might bring the valves and tune by ear guys seething out of the woodwork.
Not sure it’s even worth addressing the bigger/louder is better bit it’s so childish.
:rolleyes:
The ear defender comment was in fact in reference to the volume it seems this kit gets played at. Should you not require that kind of volume you can always twiddle the knobs a bit. ;)
Ok, there is a case to be made that some of this Pro gear sounds better under a bit of steam but in my experience the same can be said for a lot of domestic products too, my own kit being a case in point.
So, I mentioned one product range here. If you’ve heard it and think its crap don’t buy it, but diatribes on how the Pro audio world has got it all wrong, they’re all deaf and don’t know feck all about audio is a bit weird.
Big speakers, we like those at least don’t we ?
What about the idea of active? I do hope no one is going to dismiss that as nonsense.
So, some may not like the sound of some of the solid state amps. Frankly, I doubt if many could tell the difference between one competent amp and another, but we’ve been there…….
Sure, it’s cool that some on this forum is stand up for the little guy who builds specialist valve kit and I expect a lot will love their kit.
I wrote the OP because I think this stuff sounds excellent, especially given the cost. At two and a half grand you get a fully active speakers system that is built with quality components, has excellent support, is well made and to my ears at least sounds bloody marvelous.
Some people spend that on a bloody amp ffs and that again on a set of indifferent sounding speakers.
Now I thought we liked a bit of out of the box thinking here, or have we really degenerated into if it isn’t from a handful of our recommended manufacturers it just ain’t worth having?
You don’t have to take my opinion regarding the sound and value of this range and I suggest you don’t take the opinion of those who knock this kit either. Just think about getting to listen to this range should you find yourself a bit jaded by the current monthly domestic product and don’t really fancy any more mix and match shots in the dark After all, it’s your money and you will be the ones listening to it.
John, you're grossly exaggerating, simply to sensationalise, and referring to stuff that hasn't actually been written. For example:
Now I thought we liked a bit of out of the box thinking here, or have we really degenerated into if it isn’t from a handful of our recommended manufacturers it just ain’t worth having?
Can you point me to where in the discussion the above was mentioned?
I'm specifically looking for said list of the "handful of our recommended manufacturers", you say are claimed to be only worth having, and who stated it.
Marco.
I like a bit of gross exaggeration Marco. It fits in with my deafness. :D
Obviously there is no such list. However, there is a tendency here to favour a few manufacturers and a particular route.........
(is that subtle enough?)
I'm just trying (and failing miserably by the looks of it) to bring some equipment that doesn't often get mentioned to peoples attention. ;)
kininigin
24-05-2012, 10:51
I've not heard the quested or many other 'pro' actives.But have owned some Tapco S8's and heard some Wharfedale Pro Diamond 8.1,these are firmly in the budget end of the spectrum,but to my ears at least offer very good value for money.
I was so impressed with the tapco's when driven with a quality valve amp,that i knew this was the path i wanted to go down.
This has led me to what i own now,the paradigm Reference Active/20's.
I like the best of both worlds approach,especially the ability to changed the 'tone' by swapping valves about.
For me it's a win-win situation :D
Anyway, moving swiftly on……… :eyebrows:
It seems one thing most do like is looking at piccies and imagining just how awesome that kit would sound.
Big sqeakers! :eek:
There’s even an 18” in there somewhere.
http://www.quested.com/pdfs/Quested-Custom-Systems.pdf
Werner Berghofer
24-05-2012, 11:13
John,
somewhere buried beneath the wardrobe and bottle lovers on this forum are a few who have ventured into the world of active monitors.
I’m one of them. Six months ago I replaced my passive Q Acoustics 2.1 set, driven by a FatMan valve hybrid amp, by a pair of KRK Rokit 5 active speakers plus a matching KRK 10S subwoofer. Although the Q Acoustics were more pleasing to the eye and a better match for my office furniture, within the first moments it was obvious that the KRK active monitors are much more revealing, dynamic and powerful than my former setup. On the other hand, I think active studio monitors are much less suitable for leasurely listening to relaxing background music, since there’s so much more resolution and presence.
http://www.berghofer.com/photos/gear/desk2.jpg
After a short time of getting used to the new visual and audible appearance of these monitors, I certainly prefer their way of reproducing music.
http://www.berghofer.com/photos/gear/desk_december_2011.jpg
Werner.
morris_minor
24-05-2012, 11:23
I'm just trying (and failing miserably by the looks of it) to bring some equipment that doesn't often get mentioned to peoples attention. ;)
I've had, and still have pro and semi-pro gear. A former DAC (Sonifex) and current ADC (M-Audio) and speakers (Harbeth DMP1 active speakers). The latter are tremendously detailed and dynamic, and though when played quietly they lose a little in presentation, they rarely get played quietly . . :eyebrows: The lack of a separate amp to worry about upgrading is, quite frankly, a blessing . . . :lol: They were undoubtedly one of my best audio buys.
Obviously there is no such list. However, there is a tendency here to favour a few manufacturers and a particular route.........
Not at all - that is simply your perception, due perhaps to the opinions expressed by our most vociferous regulars, but there is no particular route, in terms of equipment choice, championed here - all 'routes' are welcome!
We promote thinking outside of the box and not using just the obvious choices, and we also discourage badge snobbery, but none of that promotes the use of equipment from specific manufacturers.
The reason you sometimes get this reaction is simply when some of us detect an agenda behind what you've written (a subtle dig at the 'opposition', as it were), and thus consider it necessary to challenge you on it ;)
It's this sort of pish, I'm referring to:
somewhere buried beneath the wardrobe and bottle lovers on this forum are a few who have ventured into the world of active monitors.
Lose the agenda (and poking of the 'opposition'), and in turn, you'll lose the challenging.... Simples.
I'm just trying (and failing miserably by the looks of it) to bring some equipment that doesn't often get mentioned to peoples attention.
Please carry on, as even though such kit is not my cup of tea, it's a valid example of thinking outside of the box!
Marco.
morris_minor
24-05-2012, 11:38
It's this sort of pish, I'm referring to:
somewhere buried beneath the wardrobe and bottle lovers on this forum are a few who have ventured into the world of active monitors.
Lose the agenda (and poking of the 'opposition'), and in turn, you'll lose the challenging.... Simples.
Marco.
Methinks thou doth protest too much Marco.
I thought it was a very good comment . . . but then I suppose I am one of the buried . . :lol:
It's got nothing to do with protesting too much, Bob. I'm simply making the point that John could've started this (very valid) discussion without making a sideways swipe at certain 'routes' in audio, which don't fit with his sensibilities.
Anyway, the point's been made, so let's get the thread back on topic - cheers! :cool:
Marco.
The reason you sometimes get this reaction is simply when some of us detect an agenda behind what you've written (a subtle dig at the 'opposition', as it were), and thus consider it necessary to challenge you on it ;)
It's this sort of pish, I'm referring to:
Lose the agenda (and poking of the 'opposition'), and in turn, you'll lose the challenging.... Simples.
Marco.
Awww come on Marco. Where’s the fun in that? :)
At current showing everyone can see me coming anyway.:doh:
There are lots of agendas on display here; it’s just mine isn’t quite in step with the most vocal. ;)
@ Werner.
Looks lovely to me Werner and I agree, even with some of the small actives the resolution can be quite startling
.
I haven’t heard any of the monitors mentioned by Darren (Kingpin) or Bob.
I have to admit, I have enormous respect for David Lyth and his Volt drivers. Apart from the fact that he’s a really nice rational guy who produces first class products without all the bullshit that so often accompanies the more specialized end of the audio market, I have had a few of his drivers over the years so I’m a bit biased. :)
What has surprised me on the active front is the size and power of some of the studio kit I’ve heard recently. I had tended to think of active monitors as primarily near-field equipment. :hmm:
I like big drivers, mainly because I like to be able to hear bass frequencies properly and you need to move air for decent bass. There is a lot of interesting discussion going on regarding cone flexing on drivers above say 10” and the benefits of multiple bass driver arrays.
Unfortunately, much as I love getting to listen to these speakers, I have enough problems with the totally unsuitable overly powerful speakers I have, trying to work in what is just about the worst environment possible. Being able to listen to similar in properly treated environments is a bit of a treat.
The V3110’s I linked to in the OP may just about be manageable for those fortunate enough to have rather more listening space. You don’t have to run them flat out, but having enough grunt to listen at whatever volume you want in a large room must have its benefits.
Anyway, what I did want to mention because I’m seriously excited at the prospect is it looks as if I may get the opportunity to visit Abby Road studios in the not too distant future with my audio engineer mate and I’ll get to hear some of the units in the picture bit above. :drool::yay::rave:
There are lots of agendas on display here; it’s just mine isn’t quite in step with the most vocal.
Again, you state things which are simply a figment of your perception (or imagination) and present them erroneously as fact :rolleyes:
I suggest that you leave it there, and take on board the points I've raised.
Marco.
Darren, any chance that you could change your avatar and the reference you've made to it, as I've had complaints from some people who have found it offensive. Cheers, dude! :cool:
Thanks for asking me in such I considerate manner Marco. Now done.
Wakefield Turntables
24-05-2012, 13:34
Only the Vulkan, which sounded a bit rough to me. I think the bass-mid was asked to work up too high and the tweeter a bit too low. Volt do still make some great drivers I'm told and the ones in my huge old early 80's Celefs were pretty mean (10" from memory).
P.S. I only heard one pair of Questeds some years ago and found them a little spatially "flat" for me. I'm sure things have significantly moved on now and I reckon it's the amps used mostly that may be to blame. The three way ATC 50's and 100A's are great to me, but totally outclassed by the 200A's, which were not only more power per driver, but had the bass-lower mid shared by a pair of drivers (horizontally situated on these soffit versions). Gawd, they were awsome and NOT really something to kick back and relax to :lol:
WHat a debate I have an all act system and my main complaint is that they are too darn revealing. Many has been the time when a record has come through the post that I have been looking forward to listen to and only to find the recording is totally pants. Fully active gear I feel is unsurpassed with well recorded material. It may not so much be that the amps sound flat as a wicthes left tit but the record is poorly recorded. My system is extremely analytical. Now with the regards the 200a's sounding better than the 50's, well what do you expect they are the size of a small semi and cost just as much!!!!!
Thanks for asking me in such I considerate manner Marco. Now done.
No worries, mate. I appreciate you doing that. Maybe use another one that's more appropriate, as you look a bit 'naked' now! :eyebrows:
Marco.
Woah down there fellas please...
It's a real shame for me that my memories of pro speakers are now so old, as developments and costs of the smaller ones, some of which are excellent for domestic listening, have moved things on hugely. I certainly think the average Sevenoaks customer would be better served spending their thousand or two on some carefully chosen pro gear with active speakers mated to a line driver of sorts.
One thing I would say though, is that an intensely "honest" sounding system of huge dynamic range AT HOME isn't always a truly satisfying listen, as if you're not careful, a bad recording could be pulled apart . The "art" here is to retain as much humanity in the reproduced sound as possible and this is summat that one manufacturer's mouthpiece I know of just cannot or will not accept, a shame, as their little active standmounters and new high-tech (driver) floorstanders could be the sonic answer to a prayer for many home listening situations, but the real baggage that goes with them is a huhe let down for me now..
John, apologies if I've taken the thread in the wrong direction and, had I not inherited my vintage system, I'd probably still have the little ATC actives I owned for some years, or at least, a modern equivalent (but probably not an ADM9). I haven't looked to see if there are any pro equipment stores in Ipswich (Alex?), but a trip to one of the bigger ones is a very good idea methinks..
I have to answer Dave because he’s a gent and I don’t want him thinking my irritability has anything to do with any of his comments.
Dave, absolutely no apologies necessary. :)
I agree Dave, very revealing kit capable of enormous dynamic range isn’t always a pleasant listen. I happen to like it and once you’ve become accustom to good monitor standard portrayal of the source material, I find at least, that the not so brilliant source material just gets taken as exactly that. I tend not to get overly upset if the recording sounds rubbish; possibly because the content wasn’t worth much better in the first place.
I suppose its all about what you’ve become accustom to.
It’s also true that much of this kit does perform better with a few Watts driving them. One of the criticisms I have of my current speakers is they don’t really come alive until they get around 30 Watts and at 93 dB sens that is verging on uncomfortably loud in my flat.
If I had any sense I would probably get a better low level listening experience with say a set of small ATC actives or a set of Open baffles. The problem is once I had heard my speakers and now some of these large studio monitors under full steam, the addiction bites.
Anyway, perhaps you might carry the banner because I’m going to leave it here for the time being.
Hi John,
You really wouldn't care for returning to smaller actives, 'cos the sound shrinks badly too and no amount of subtle low-bass lift can bring it back. Maybe an experiment with active Tannoys perhaps, as someone here did it to great effect IIRC?????
Active done right really can be a nightmare for reproducing bad production/mixes in all their glory and the latest ATC SL drivers can be ruthless at this. My pre SL100A's were gentler in this, but huge hearted all the same. However, the sonics of these big ATC's flattened at very low volumes. By the way, "my" 100A's with "my" SCA2 are for sale, as the owner passed away recently (:() and the family don't want them. There's a Levinson CD player and a Sondek with early ittok and Troika too I think still.
Having been down the large fridge-sized active route, I must admit to not wanting or needing such intensity for home listening any more. My personal current choice, had I the funds for new stuff, of good listening is with an able amp of high quality and some current Harbeths, which offer most of the utter transparency, especially in the midrange (those "radial" cones work stunningly well, despite the passive crossover IMO), the treble is delicate and sweet, rather than hard hitting (metal domes too!) and the full bodied bass doesn't boom, despite being passively driven and offers a more natural tone to certain little active squeakers with built-in DAC's that supposedly offer "better" bass, even though it nosedives below 80Hz or so in their smaller model. Adding a sub defeats the whole object to me and I hate sub-sat systems with a passion in any case, so maybe I'm biased :)
John, it'll take a while for "normal" punters to look at decent pro gear for home use, but the death of the mid Hi-Fi market will no doubt cause more to listen to genuine alternatives where a shrine-to-HiFi in the living room isn't wanted - you know what I mean, a room with a huge rack with loads of boxes at the focal point with a pair of speakers either side of it - ugh! At the other end though, there's a Tascam A-D/D-A cum preamp for under a ton and a more versatile one for under £200 that might make a good preamp-line driver for some actives. Some KRK's (with a nice Pro-Ac style saddle-back response) or alternatives could make a stupendous sub £1K music system. Alternatively, some Rega RS1's (simple and basic crossover) with a Croft Series 7 or Brio R may well run it close if not better it in the important areas for all I know.
Best to keep an open mind and do some listening methinks - phew, have I finished yet?
Reid Malenfant
24-05-2012, 17:08
http://www.quested.com/pdfs/Quested-Custom-Systems.pdf
Has anyone noticed the drivers that are being used here?
These things are not out of place in top quality passive (or active) hifi speakers.
ATC 3" soft dome mid.
Vifa 3" soft dome mid.
Not sure about the tweeter, but looks to be a top quality scan speak or Vifa.
Volt bass drivers.
None are cheap & often only get used in hi end kit at the end of the day.
The 12" Radial woofers are used in PMC transmission lines, the last pair of which I saw going secondhand on ebay for £7.5K :eek:
While I run an active system myself, I do like the idea of being able to select my own amplification ;)
I feel that a pro type amp is fine for the bass end of things as you'll get exactly what you want. Ooodles of power & a high damping factor which will result in fast, detailed bass. Point in question is I am indeed using a big pro amp just for this purpose - Lab Gruppen PLM14000 :D
It's not something that I'd probably like to live with covering the whole audio range though, which is why I have a nice John Curl designed six channel Parasound HCA1206 covering everything else. This isn't a pro amp, it's effectively a six channel hifi amp of decent quality & it kind of shows :)
So yes, active all the way for me, but on my terms - which are a little bit more demanding than just buying something off of the shelf. No objection to that route though, as I say, I have heard some of this kit & ATCs & they aren't to be sniffed at if set up properly in a room.
Reid Malenfant
24-05-2012, 17:22
Something else I forgot to mention :doh:
I also like to be able to choose my own drive units as well, just while I'm at it :eyebrows:
Not forgeting enclosure design :cool:
Hi Mark,
I feel that a pro type amp is fine for the bass end of things as you'll get exactly what you want. Ooodles of power & a high damping factor which will result in fast, detailed bass.
If I were to activate my Tannoys, which I'm considering doing, how do you think it would work employing what you describe above, and using the Copper amp simply for the mid and top-end?
I can't perceive any lack of bass speed, at the moment, with the Copper amp passively driving the Tannoys, but I'm up for trying a 'big-boy' SS amp in that role instead, and comparing the results.
Also, how would you control the bass independently on single, dual-concentric drive units? :)
Marco.
Reid Malenfant
24-05-2012, 18:01
Hi Mark,
If I were to activate my Tannoys, which I'm considering doing, how do you think it would work employing what you describe above, and using the Copper amp simply for the mid and top-end?
I can't perceive any lack of bass speed, at the moment, with the Copper amp passively driving the Tannoys, but I'm up for trying a 'big-boy' SS amp in that role instead, and comparing the results.
Also, how would you control the bass independently on single, dual-concentric drive units? :)
Marco.
I use the Lab Gruppen up to 110Hz only, I reckon it'd be ok up to say 300Hz...
I know why your asking as you know how I like things to sound having wandered round Scalford this year. You have some trust in my ears :eyebrows:
The thing is if you are going to use the 15" up to it's standard crossover point of 1KHz then imo you'd want to use something a little more forgiving, or more in line with the design of the copper amp. It's getting towards the range of maximum ear sensitivity & there is a whole lot of voice reproduction in the range between 150Hz to 1KHz.
I don't think you are considering something like what I'm using here (just for bass), more like a decent high quality hifi amp with less overall feedback.
My answer would be to try it & see. I don't see a problem though as long as you select an amp with the kind of care you'd normally use if it was for full range duties.
To control either bass or treble volume levels would be no problem at all, take it from me, you'd need to be able to vary the outputs to make up for differences in not only driver sensitivity, but overall amplifier gain as well :) It's all easy stuff...
It wouldn't be very difficult to design an active crossover that mimics the response of the Tannoy passive one. It'd consist of about 3 op-amps per channel, though it could also be done with transistors or even valves if you wanted to :D
The thing I'd suggest though is investigating going from a 12dB/octave rolloff to a 24dB/octave Linkwitz/Riley type crossover that will give you driver responses that are absolutely in phase through the crossover frequency & beyond. Then apply a small amount of delay to the bass unit so all frequencies appear to radiate at the same time, remember that the tweeter is behind the woofer!
If you happen to still have those rather large SS monoblocks & you feel like an experiment I reckon you could have your Lockwoods running active for about £200, on a trial basis, just to see what you think.. With a bit of work of course ;)
Before I went down the Open baffle route I very nearly got a pair of ATC actives (ona recommendation from James at Whest) I never have no regrets with this, but I do understand why many choose this route. It would also be quite easy for me to go active and is something I thought about a few times.
Marco I think if you went active it mean one amp for tweater and one for the mid/bass I must admit with your set up I wonder why you would wish to do this, you certainly end up with a different sounding system, better :confused:
I hear you, John, loud and clear! I also get where Mark is coming from (and thanks for taking the time to provide such a detailed reply, mate).
I think I'd consult with Anthony on this and take his advice. I'll probably stick with my original idea of using two stereo Copper amps, and activate the Tannoys that way...
I'm also loving the idea of valve-driven active crossovers! Oh yes... :eek: :D
Marco.
It certainly would sound very interesting
I was hoping for 'naughty' or 'rather rude', more than interesting! :eyebrows:
Marco.
Reid Malenfant
24-05-2012, 18:22
I think I'd consult with Anthony on this and take his advice. I'll probably stick with my original idea of using two stereo Copper amps, and activate the Tannoys that way...
I'm also loving the idea of valve-driven active crossovers! Oh yes... :eek: :D
Marco.
Well that'd be my choice if I was already happy with what the copper amp was giving you :) You do realise that you'll get somewhere near 4 - 6dB of extra volume headroom now don't you :D
Active xovers using valves shouldn't be a problem, definately not if you are wanting to mimic the response of the Tannoy passive xover as it looks to be 12dB/octave.
I'm not sure which valves I saw at Scalford one time, but there were some operating at a plate voltage of about 24V, which would be more than enough to allow full drive to either copper amps or whatever.
You'd just need some kind of Triode acting as the same as a transistor would if wired as an emitter follower - talk to Anthony, I know next to nothing about glass bottles :(
You do realise that you'll get somewhere near 4 - 6dB of extra volume headroom now don't you :D
Yes, hence why I preferred the use of adjectives such as "rude" or "naughty"! :fingers: :hairmetal:
Like I'm lacking headroom now (!) but what's a chap to do if he can get even more? Should come in handly playing some Tool or Tiesto at 'silly' levels... :eyebrows:
Active xovers using valves shouldn't be a problem, definately not if you are wanting to mimic the response of the Tannoy passive xover as it looks to be 12dB/octave.
I shall defo consult with da man!
Marco.
Not sure why you need extra headroom but hey it could be fun
Agree Interesting sounds like Steve Davis spitting image
8cGWdye1ZvQ
Confucious say: 'Man can never have too much headroom'.
Marco.
Reid Malenfant
24-05-2012, 19:15
Confucious say: 'Man can never have too much headroom'.
Marco.
'But woman can have too much headroom for man' :rfl:
6762
Sorry, that was a bit below the belt ;)
'Man can never get too much head' :D
Marco.
Marco, going active your way is going to cost dearly I know, but if the crossovers can be set up right, I think it'll be the ultimate step for you. Anthony's the perfect one for reference too..
Lodgesound
24-05-2012, 20:44
Just a point of interest for me really - has anyone here sat and listened in a studio control room or a mastering suite?
Interested to know from a personal standpoint as I think the reaction to the sound heard would be either extremely positive or violently negative but in the case of all the records that you own their "sound" would have been born in such a suite which invariably contains an active system of one kind or another.
I once met a very senior mastering engineer who told me that you can achieve a sound balance on a pair of very cheap speakers once you know what to listen for.........(never been able to do it myself).
My reason for asking is that I was lucky enough to get such a listen when I was quite young and subsequently actually work in the business for a time (not now though - too old). My initial reaction was negative but it taught my ears a great deal and shaped my persuit of home sound reproduction in a very different way to that which it was going before the experience.
Marco, going active your way is going to cost dearly I know, but if the crossovers can be set up right, I think it'll be the ultimate step for you. Anthony's the perfect one for reference too..
Indeed, Dave. It's a project for some time next year, as I've got too many other commitments for this year. It'll be very interesting when it happens, though - can't imagine what it would sound like! :eek:
Marco.
kininigin
24-05-2012, 22:13
Wasn't there a chap on here,i forget his name,who had used valve amps in an active crossover with his tannoys?
I'm sure he lived somewhere round my neck of the woods,might be worth seeing if you could take a listen,if we can find out who it is first :lol:
Yeah, dude, if you remember, let me know... Knowning you, he'll be in France, or something! :lol:
Marco.
kininigin
24-05-2012, 22:30
I'll have a look at some old posts tomorrow to see who it was.If my memory serves me right he did offer me a listen.
I'm sure you won't need a passport though ;)
Actually speaking of france,i'm looking at taking a small active system and maybe one of stans dacs when i go over there next winter.
No way am i using laptop speakers for 6 months :lol:
Indeed, Dave. It's a project for some time next year, as I've got too many other commitments for this year. It'll be very interesting when it happens, though - can't imagine what it would sound like! :eek:
Marco.
Like you have now, but "easier" is my expectation :)
I have sat in on mastering sessions and the results don't always make for pleasure-listening. The B&W 801's were being driven by a large Mosfet H&H power amp and sounded very "hard toned" to me. My engineer friend once mastered an early Decca Marian Faithful compilation early in his career and balanced the tracks to sound correct on 801's. getting his free gratis CD later on, he found to his horror that the treble was screaming on his home playback system (Sony VFET and Tangent RS4's at the time). From that moment on, the only eq he did was if he absolutely HAD to to correct faults, rather than personal preference. He did one disc of the original Tom Jones greatest hits 2CD set and, despite the tapes shedding badly at the mastering session I understand, the sound was superb..
I did get to have an extended listen to some ATC SCM200A's in a domestic setting. Bloody hell, they were good with absolutely EFFORTLESS dynamics, even from an AVI CD player, which was judged "laid back" by some reviewers. I really do believe that most domestic stereo's are severely limiting, and probably deliberately since we and our neighbours just couldn't cope with the vast dynamic levels available, even on "produced" albums with some sort of limiting going on..
A good client we had, once visited RAK studios when they were setting up. he listened to a live drum kit being played and recorded over the big monitors and then was astounded by how much was lost on the analogue tape machine playback (analogue master recording is very costly in machine maintenance). Maybe the machine needed setting up better, but the difference left an impression on him.
Like you have now, but "easier" is my expectation :)
I think you're dead right, but I'd also imagine that the active crossovers will allow even more microscopic insight into the musical programme, unearthing stuff in recordings which either I won't have heard before, or heard as clearly.
It is *precisely* that effect which I love about the Lockwoods. One listen and you can tell exactly why they were used in recording studios, for monitoring purposes (as veritable 'wide-open windows'), and of course the way I've modified them from stock, reveals even more of those traits!
I did get to have an extended listen to some ATC SCM200A's in a domestic setting. Bloody hell, they were good with absolutely EFFORTLESS dynamics, even from an AVI CD player, which was judged "laid back" by some reviewers. I really do believe that most domestic stereo's are severely limiting, and probably deliberately since we and our neighbours just couldn't cope with the vast dynamic levels available, even on "produced" albums with some sort of limiting going on..
I'd loved to have heard that, although for me, the sound of most active studio monitors is governed too much by the sonic signature of their amp packs, which tend to have a 'cold', 'hard' sound (definitely not neutral), which I don't believe is inherently due to the design of the speakers themselves, and this always taints my experience of listening to big ATC and PMC actives.
You should hear the scary dynamics I get here at the moment, playing music which really shows off the effect, so it'll be frightening what'll happen when another Copper amp enters the equation. Thankfully, I've got no neighbours to worry about! :eyebrows:
So it'll be... :rave: :gig: :hairmetal: :fingers:
...at ANY time of the day or night!!
Marco.
I’ve been in a few studios over the years, both in the control room and in the studio itself.
To be truthful, I can’t say the in studio bit was a pleasant experience, a few instruments playing in a small room, especially if there is percussion and brass involved tends to strip enamel from teeth.
Listening to mic line feeds is more bearable if you can cope with spill from other instruments.
kininigin
26-05-2012, 17:40
Wasn't there a chap on here,i forget his name,who had used valve amps in an active crossover with his tannoys?
I'm sure he lived somewhere round my neck of the woods,might be worth seeing if you could take a listen,if we can find out who it is first :lol:
Well the mystery guy marco is tom (montesquieu) from wokingham.
Should be able to answer any questions you have i imagine :)
Ah yes, Tom - thanks for that. I may bend his ear a little on the subject :)
Marco.
jandl100
27-05-2012, 07:17
I'm pretty sure Tom gave up on the active aspect of his Tannoys.
Ah, no worries, Jerry. I suspect that he'll have done it a little differently to how I'm intending to :)
Marco.
jandl100
27-05-2012, 07:39
Not wanting to steal Tom's thunder, as it were.
But here's what he posted about his active Tannoy project 'in another place' ....
Anyone who has had big Tannoys, be they Monitor series, HPDs or even the later ones, knows how wonderful they are at big scale, filling the room with marvellous music of amazing weight and substance. They are fabulous at big 3D soundscapes, and have a wonderful full-bodied way with timbre. In horn enclosures like the GRF they also have a lot of dynamic punch, though they can be a bit flatter and more tubby sounding in small volume standard Lancaster boxes, the up side being deeper bass of course.
They do have their critics though and for some people, a slight coarseness detectable in the treble (with Golds and HPDs at least) is enough for them to pass on the whole Tannoy thing. I spotted this issue too (especially coming after the wonderful transparency of Quad ESLs), and put it down to the standard crossover on the Golds, which though being reasonably sophisticated, also uses some fairly cheap mass-produced components (mine were 45 years old to boot) On top of that, Golds aren't always the most intricately-detailed of speakers - musical yes, room-filing, yes, but detail-meisters, they aren't. Not in standard guise anyway. They also aren't the easiest to drive and get the best out of, needing a high damping factor to keep those 15in cones under control and not all boomy and soft, something that in my experience means a good PP amp with strong current delivery. I've never had much joy with SET despite trying half a dozen at least.
I've owned my GRFs for over two years now, picked up from Coco when he was fund-raising for his Voyd Reference. After a year or so, I had new crossovers done (great job by Phil White 'Early'), with £400 worth of premium bits, which took away (as I had hoped) most of the slight throatiness, as well increasing overall refinement and detail, though enough of a gap between what I was getting and what I thought the potential was remained to keep me wishing for more.
Last autumn I took the cabs up to Russ Collinson in Barnsley for a full refurb. The cabs were of reasonable design but quite old and were built of thinner ply than would be used today, also there was little bracing on them so they did audibly resonate in places, creating a bit of bloom mainly in the upper bass. Russ went to town in the bracing department, putting multiple solid posts in to reinforce the folded horn section and bonded on sheets of plywood to kill panel resonance. He also got rid of the mahogany stain they were coated in and refinished in natural wood, and as a finishing touch made new grilles with vintage cloth. Now, the old girls look stunning. At the same time he also made up new back plates with speaker posts attached hat enabled the two drivers to be directly wired. Suddenly bi-wiring, or even bi-amping (passive or active) was a possibility. Russ also did some lovely wood boxes to take the custom passive crossovers external. A wonderful job, as usual from Russ.
http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x440/montesquieu61/newtannoy1.jpg
http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x440/montesquieu61/newtannoy2.jpg
Ever since coming across this (http://www.hilberink.nl/codehans/tannoy86.htm) in the Tannoyista site I've fancied a crack at taking them active. A try with a Behringer DCX 2496 was a bit abortive, mainly because of gain and sensitivity issues (in the GRF cabs they are something like 97db). I managed to pick up (from 'gjm') a 2A3 integrated that would be perfect to experiment with as second amp, while the Audion Silver Night 300b PP monoblocks (back in my posession after four years doing the rounds ...) have volume controls for variable sensitivity - ideal for level matching.
A conversation with Nick Gorham 'lurcher' resulted in him agreeing to build the circuit above - and last week it duly arrived. Very nice work - he had the boards run up after laying out the circuit for op amps, and added buffer stages to handle any impedance nasties with valve amps at input and output.
http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x440/montesquieu61/activexover1.jpg
My idea had been to use PP Audion 300bs for decent bass from the 15in cones, and gjm's sweet little 2A3 for the 2in compression driver. People use a mix of drivers in horn systems all the time - why not in a GRF which is a mid-horn and treble horn in the one drive unit?
First listen, though, was disappointing. Bit of fiddling with level matching got the crossover element into the right ball park, but I felt the overall sound was a little course and sub-optimal. Just, not as musical as it should be, not gelling, while detail seemed to have gone a bit blurry and the lovely delicate sound from my valve pre and power amps had gone. It just sounded a bit - well - cheap and solid state. My first thought was that it was an issue with using two different amps - I went looking for a matching pair to try (I'm still hoping to do this at some point!).
I had a discussion with Nick and it transpired that in my conversations with him I'd described this as 'an experiment' - so he'd done his best to keep the cost minimal, including specifying some fairly cheap , opamps. He proposed replacing these with OPA604AP. At more than £2 each (times 12) this was four times the cost of the originals, though still hardly a fortune. They duly arrived from RS components and I slotted them in (a new DIY experience for me but I managed ok quite chuffed with myself. 845 SET build here I come :) ). Instant revelation - much much clearer, and the music had returned. Not only that, I was getting the benefits of active coming through loud and clear, less background hash, more low-level detail, better layering in terms of soundstage, more punch and dynamics. It also became obvious that the tweeters were out of phase - duly fixed, this was a big improvement again. I had been worried about putting a bunch of opamps in between my valve pre and power amps, but I needn't have been concerned, this is now a pretty transparent piece of kit and there seems to be no detectable hit on the subtleties of my AN DAC, Nick-designed phono stage or SJS preamp.
I've left it on now for several days to warm up and burn in and it's been getting better and better. As it has settled in, more and more of the valve character has come through, all that lovely ambience and sweetness from the SJS particularly, without losing the punch and 3D layering. The soundstage has improved over what I had with the passives, as has low-level detail. The only quibble is a very slight comparative loss of focus around the point of the crossover frequency .. something I suspect was there before with the passives, but was covered up by other hash. And it is only slight, you have to be looking for it.
The acid test - listening with the wife - was passed with flying colours. I got the 'now don't you dare go and change anything' lecture that I get occasionally when I do something very right.
Additional refinements remain possible, which I hope might just fix that slight haze around 1khz - improvements to PSU, or (according to Google) I could even spend £25 a pop (times 12 ...) on even fancier opamps. I will definitely go ahead with improvements to the regulation (as recommended by Nick), the opamp option remains on the cards but prohibitive in the short-term I think, I'd need to be really sure any gains would be worth it.
Also the 2A3 is used at max volume, but the Audions level match at around 11 o'clock on the dial - combined with the lowish output on my DAC that means I'm a bit short of gain on the DAC input (no probs on vinyl). So I may still experiment with a higher-sensitivity amp for the 2in driver. And I really ought to twist the arm of JP' diceman' or Coco to come over with their measuring gear and make sure I've properly matched the levels (by ear it sounds but measurement would take away any lingering doubt that I have it right).
Of course a valve version of the active crossover circuit would be intriguing as well - now we know it works accurately - and Nick has promised to take a look and see how it might be done ....
But for the moment I'm a happy bunny. I feel a springtime classical music day coming on to canvas the views of the usual suspects as well as some newcomers - will keep the board informed.
http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x440/montesquieu61/newtannoy3.jpg
Thanks for that, Jerry. Most interesting - I wish that Tom would post some of that stuff here, as I very rarely read the Wam...
There are some interesting observations, which I'll comment on later :cool:
Marco.
I thought I'd read all this on here some months ago?
Don't worry about the use of op-amps either. these days and with a knowledgeable circuit designer well versed in power supply techniques as Nick is, I VERY much doubt these crossovers would be sonically intrusive at all, even though I can imagine Richard Dunn having heart failure looking at them :lol: get the gains matched and the impedances sorted as discussed above, and these should just do the job required with NO sonic artifacts at all. I suspect that trying to do this with discrete components would actually be worse.......
Yes, Quested make very good equipment :) If I hadn't have gone down the DIY route I may well have gone the Quested route, or similar :cool:
The thing is though is by going DIY you can end up with a set of speakers that leave the Questeds or ATCs or big PMCs in the dust & for a cheaper price if you put the work in ;)
I would certainly agree that the DIY approach can make going active cheaper if you have the skills and the patience but like any speaker building ime there is a bit more to it than getting the sums right.
Building something that exhibits a flat response over the 20Hz to 20 kHz range, a sensible polar response, good phase characteristics and adequate power handling is really just a start.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.