andre previn and his 1812 cannons blew my NS1000M!!

[bogle111]

Self explanatory really. Does anyone have his address so I can send Telarc the invoice. They are not cheap to get a matched pair! Where do you get yours? Time to get the Tannoys out again I guess.

Regards to all other 1000 owners, it seems like only a matter of time.
Pete

[Reid Malenfant]

You didn't pop the tweeters did you? :doh:

I can't seem to kill the bass or midrange units & I have fed the bass drivers 400W+ of power on a good few occasions :eyebrows:

[bogle111]

Yes, it was the tweeters!!! I have started a severe case of Torrets when I think of it. I have found a matched pair in Timbuctoo as well as. 2 years ago I could have bought a pair of speakers complete for 450. It is not like I am short of speakers, it is just that I like them.

Now it seems they have been (discovered) realised all over again.

Regs
Pete

[The Grand Wazoo]

This would be the culprit then?


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v480/acagr/record/skal_1812_grooves.jpg

[Reid Malenfant]

I cottoned on to them the first time I experienced them :eyebrows: I don't think "hearing" them is quite the correct word :D

Yes they are stupidly expensive & no longer available from Yamaha as replacements. Though the last time I looked & they were available you were looking at over £200 each +VAT.

Some bloke in USA is selling some on fleabay...

You should fit some of these (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/250429561888?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649) in line with any new tweeters, if you find & fit them ;)

I wish you the best of luck..

[maxrob200]

I read that Berylium dome tweeters are carcinoginic to manufacture apparently. Your amplifier must have gone into clipping. I remeber blowing up the woofers on my Bose 601 many years ago playing Jeff Wayne's War of the Worlds- the part when the screw cap thumped on to the ground and Uuulllaaas started! My puny amplifer went splat!

[MartinT]

This would be the culprit then?

It's as challenging as it looks - I have the original Telarc vinyl as well as the original CD and re-recorded SACD.

However, I'm fairly sure it's conducted by Erich Kunzel, not Andre Previn?

[jandl100]

Oh dear. :( Commiserations.

Yup, I bet the amp was clipping.

[morris_minor]

This would be the culprit then?


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v480/acagr/record/skal_1812_grooves.jpg

What a great photo :eek:. If nothing else it's a text book example of how a record should be cut. It never ceases to amaze me how a wiggly groove can produce such nice sound . . .

The 1958 Mercury 1812 with Dorati is a good 'un too. The CD issue has a track explaining how they recorded the cannons etc (with the worlds most boring voice-over man . . .).

[Patrick Dixon]

It's a bit silly of them to put the canons at the end of the side - if they'd re-arranged the performance order and put them at the beginning, it would have been much better.


;-)

[bobbasrah]

It's a bit silly of them to put the canons at the end of the side - if they'd re-arranged the performance order and put them at the beginning, it would have been much better.


;-)

Boom, boom....

[Mike]

You should fit some of these (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/250429561888?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649) in line with any new tweeters, if you find & fit them ;)

I use them in my NS1000M's too.... highly recommended!

[maxrob200]

back in my vinyl days, one of the few cartridges that could track the Telarc 1812 was the venerable Shure V15 Type IV or V. all others would give up with a szzzzt as the stylus left the groove

[DSJR]

Many modern phono stages would filter all that infra-bass out anyway, making it a waste of time :(

The blown tweeters are the reason why such huge power amps are used in studios. That powerful MC2 amp for sale on here recently was the baby of the range. Tweeters can't take continuous clipping, as you've found to your cost, but short term power-peaks shouldn't be an issue for them.

[Marco]

Peter doesn't say what amp(s) he was using, which went clippety-clip... It'd be interesting to know.

For me, one of the useful things of using large and highly efficient speakers, such as my Lockies, is that you don't need to play them loud, in order to get realistic scale and dynamics.

It's really all about building a system with tons of available headroom, in order to cope with anything you throw at it. I shudder to think how loud I'd need to be playing the Lockies, before I blew a tweeter in one of the Monitor Golds.... :eek:

I honestly think that my eardrums would pop before it would!!

Marco.

[Lodgesound]

In the case of studio monitors Marco the danger of hearing damage is a very real one.

Because studio monitors play very loud withoout distortion they very often do not sound that loud - you only get an idea of how loud they have been after a session because your hearing has become dulled due to your ears protecting themselves.

Many studio control rooms actually have limiters installed that prevent the SPL in the room exceeding 115 dBA (the levels you would experience at a live concert).

Monitors such as the BBC LS 5/8 will easily play at levels of 120 dBA WITHOUT distortion and can be very dangerous as a result as you can honestly sit comfortably listening to them at that level and not be aware of it!

[DSJR]

It wouldn't surprise me marco if there isn't around ten db difference in sensitivity between your Lockwoods and NS1000M's, so, assuming my terrible maths is working, for 10W for yours, you'd need more than 40W for the NS1000's for same level. Taking it to the max on meaty rock & roll, I'd suggest a few hundred Watts for the NS1000's on peaks and around 40 - 60W for yours. Decent valve amps soft-clip too, so can sound far louder than they really are. I very much doubt you'd ever get the Copper amp near clipping in the room you use Marco, since even you would find it too loud for more than a few minutes.

[StanleyB]

One reason I love VU meters on an amp is because I can monitor the signal for dangerous output levels that my ears wouldn't otherwise have accepted as unsafe for speakers and hearing. It's not the safest method, but it's a lot better than guessing.

[Reid Malenfant]

It wouldn't surprise me marco if there isn't around ten db difference in sensitivity between your Lockwoods and NS1000M's, so, assuming my terrible maths is working, for 10W for yours, you'd need more than 40W for the NS1000's for same level.
They are about 5 - 6Db less sensitive, which actually make the latter part of your calculation correct (6Db is 4 times the power) :) The former is wrong, 10Db is 10 times the power...

[Mike]

They are about 5 - 6Db less sensitive, which actually make the latter part of your calculation correct (6Db is 4 times the power) :) The former is wrong, 10Db is 10 times the power...

Unless it's volts. Keeps catching me out that does.... annoying!

[Reid Malenfant]

Aye, voltage would be doubled for a 6Db increase, so current would also double & thus you have four times the power :)

3Db = 1.414 x the voltage = double the power.
10Db = 3.162 x the voltage = ten times the power & double the physical volume level :eyebrows:

[Mike]

Yeah I know, it's a 'work thing' where I keep flitting between disciplines. One minute working in dBmV and then in dBm.... amps with gain expressed in voltage terms one minute and then power output the next... frequencies expressed in hertz then wavelength... I could go on. I've lost count of the amount of times I've fitted a 6dB attenuator instead of a 3, or 10 instead of a 20.

It's probably an age thing, I don't think I give a shit anymore! :scratch:

[Reid Malenfant]

You aren't the only one :eyebrows:

[Barry]

Aye, voltage would be doubled for a 6Db increase, so current would also double & thus you have four times the power :)

3Db = 1.414 x the voltage = double the power.
10Db = 3.162 x the voltage = ten times the power & double the physical volume level :eyebrows:

Being a bit of a pedant:

(1) the units are 'dB' not 'Db',

(2) the voltage ratio (in dB) is only double the power ratio (in dB) if the input and output impedances are equal. In practice this detail is conventionally ignored when it comes to audio, but not in the realm of RF.

[Mike]

but not in the realm of RF.

That's where I work. :(

[Reid Malenfant]

Being a bit of a pedant:

the units are 'dB' not 'Db'
Ah, I thought something wasn't right :eyebrows:

[Barry]

Ah, I thought something wasn't right :eyebrows:

Don't worry - the Yanks get it wrong as well, using variously: "db"; "Db" or even "DB".

Although its not an officially recognised SI unit, the abreviation stands for decibel, i.e. one tenth of a Bel (named after Alexander Graham Bell), so should be written dB. Any unit named after a person is written with a capital letter (even Ohm with a capital omega: Ω).

Sorry - lecture over. ;)

[MartinT]

Indeed, the SI unit for sound intensity is W/m², not quite so easy to get your head around.

[Barry]

Indeed, the SI unit for sound intensity is W/m², not quite so easy to get your head around.

Sound intensity is an absolute unit. dB's are used to express ratios or relative levels.

(By the way, how are you able to write superfixes? The best I can do is W/m^2, which is quite inelegant! :()

[MartinT]

By the way, how are you able to write superfixes?

I use Windows Charmap (built-in since XP) to get the first four °¹²³ and there are quite a few superfix letters available too :)

[Reid Malenfant]

Just found that, thanks for the tip Martin :)

Now the question is where did Barry get the omega from :D

[Marco]

As thrilling as this is chaps, let's not get any more 'techy', otherwise I'll be saying hello to the Sandman much earlier than usual tonight! ;)

Marco.

[Barry]

I use Windows Charmap (built-in since XP) to get the first four °¹²³ and there are quite a few superfix letters available too :)

I have them in Microsoft' Word (as 'insert' Symbol), but they don't come across when I paste into AoS.

Mark, that's where I get the "Ω".

[Mr Kipling]

Did Freddie Starr eat ya hamster?

[Barry]

As thrilling as this is chaps, let's not get any more 'techy', otherwise I'll be saying hello to the Sandman much earlier than usual tonight! ;)

Marco.

Understood!

[realysm42]

Amps and that, init.

[MartinT]

Now the question is where did Barry get the omega from :D

Ω - the same program :)