View Full Version : Would you buy gear without an audition?
realysm42
23-04-2012, 18:58
I've read about a particular speaker that you can't get in this country (possibly never will be able to) but heard so many good things about it I feel like taking a risk:
http://www.evolutionacoustics.com/
(MMMicroOne)
I actually did this with my whole system, bought the whole thing research I'd done. Would I do that again? No way, but I actually have a system to work with now.
So back to the question, you ever bought anything on reviews instead of an audition and how did it work out for you?
morris_minor
23-04-2012, 19:52
So back to the question, you ever bought anything on reviews instead of an audition and how did it work out for you?
Yes. I bought my Metrum Octave NOS DAC on the strength of a few good reviews and some forum posts. Turned out to be one of the best things I've bought. Digital has never sounded so good!
At the other extreme I've just order a Graham Slee Reflex M phono amp. But this was after a two week home trial with one from their loan scheme.
I think if there's a no quibble return policy within a certain period there's not a lot to lose buying blind . . .
realysm42
23-04-2012, 19:58
Yeah, the issue I have is this will be shipped in from the States, so if I do hate it I've got a lot to pay to return it lol (would have to sell it here).
I don't know of anyone else in the country with these to have a go with.
Reid Malenfant
23-04-2012, 20:00
Don't forget import duty & VAT on top :doh: :eek:
I have bought gear before without an audition, but only on the understanding I can return it if I don't like it. I wouldn't do it if I couldn't, unless I was sure I could move it on with very little loss, but it would have to be a proven seller on eBay.
Werner Berghofer
23-04-2012, 20:05
Martin,
you ever bought anything on reviews instead of an audition and how did it work out for you?
yes: my headphone amplifiers (Schiit Lyr (http://schiit.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=0&products_id=3), Schiit Valhalla (http://schiit.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=0&products_id=2)) and my DACs (Schiit Bifrost (http://schiit.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=0&products_id=7)) were bought this way. There was no possibility for an audition; guess I’m still the only person in Austria with Schiit gear at home. Also the purchase of my Beyerdynamic T1 (http://europe.beyerdynamic.com/shop/hah/headphones-and-headsets/at-home/music-pleasure/t-1.html) headphones was based on reviews. The Schiit gear I purchased directly from the manufacturer, the headphones were ordered from Thomann (http://www.thomann.de/gb/index.html?sid=db9f6d83d73f7fa518e36364910d9975).
It worked very well for me and I’m happy with the stuff I bought.
Werner.
On the Evolution Acoustics dealer site there is this contact information:
In Switzerland and other countries not listed, please contact Hervé Deletraz at:
darTZeel
2 Ch. Louis-Hubert
CH-1213 Petit-Lancy / Geneva
Tel: +41 22 793 8284
rehve at dartzeel.com
Maybe you could get some more input from there?
hifi_dave
23-04-2012, 20:13
Well, I've heard an awful lot of gear that's had great reviews and sounded sh*te, so I never buy without an audition.
Everything i have bought in 30 years has been unauditioned.
Not in the position to buy new so have just been a bit careful and bought with the knowledge that i can resell for similar amount.
Has worked well and have never lost more than a few quid on an item.
BlueEyes
23-04-2012, 20:19
Everything i have bought in 30 years has been unauditioned.
Not in the position to buy new so have just been a bit careful and bought with the knowledge that i can resell for similar amount.
Has worked well and have never lost more than a few quid on an item.
Stuart, are you the Chelsea ( I thought it was Chelsea Dave ) who had your gear at Scalford in 2011?
Greg
Stuart, are you the Chelsea ( I thought it was Chelsea Dave ) who had your gear at Scalford in 2011?
Greg
Hi greg.
Yes with the voyd and AN/es.
BlueEyes
23-04-2012, 20:24
Hi greg.
Yes with the voyd and AN/es.
You had the Frankinstein amp?
BlueEyes
23-04-2012, 20:30
The system I heard, if it was yours Stuart, was superb and I remember the guy saying that he bought the lot off the back of a hifi mag report from the gear having played at some show in Boulder Colorado.
The guy was called Chelsea Dave.
I wouldn't buy any audio equipment without hearing it first - either at a dealers or at home.
i'm always buying gear without auditioning but it is nearly always old and collectable, just get the enjoyment out of buying old stuff.
Shows like Scalford are a good way of checking old and new gear out as well
Home loan for me, or a clear returns policy. Otherwise no deal - especially for speakers which are so personal.
The system I heard, if it was yours Stuart, was superb and I remember the guy saying that he bought the lot off the back of a hifi mag report from the gear having played at some show in Boulder Colorado.
The guy was called Chelsea Dave.
Ah no chelsea dave is not me greg.
I was using a cr developments 15watt valve amp.
Reid Malenfant
23-04-2012, 20:57
Home loan for me, or a clear returns policy. Otherwise no deal.
Unless you happen to upgrade from a PPP to a P10? :scratch:
I think that'd be a pretty safe bet :)
I must admit that quite a bit of my kit has been purchased with no audition ;)
My Aiwa AP2600 came from a car boot sale for £25, likewise the Pioneer CT-F950 - £40 from a secondhand shop :eyebrows:
A whole lot of other stuff to come to think about it...
But I certainly did audition the Yamaha speakers... & then ripped them to bits :rfl:
i'm always buying gear without auditioning but it is nearly always old and collectable, just get the enjoyment out of buying old stuff.
Shows like Scalford are a good way of checking old and new gear out as well
For stuff i'am into it's perfect.
For stuff i'am into it's perfect.
I think you and i have simular tastes Stu ;)
Seems that way jon.
Just wish i had the funds for some of the gear i'd like.
Nearly there though.
Hopefully just an amp upgrade one day and i'll try and stick with what i have....saying that i would like to try some big grfs one day.
magiccarpetride
23-04-2012, 21:23
So back to the question, you ever bought anything on reviews instead of an audition and how did it work out for you?
Refusing to buy gear without first auditioning it is akin to refusing to go to a game without first knowing if your team is going to win. Part of the fun is not knowing in advance...
magiccarpetride
23-04-2012, 21:24
Martin,
yes: my headphone amplifiers (Schiit Lyr (http://schiit.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=0&products_id=3), Schiit Valhalla (http://schiit.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=0&products_id=2)) and my DACs (Schiit Bifrost (http://schiit.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=0&products_id=7)) were bought this way. There was no possibility for an audition; guess I’m still the only person in Austria with Schiit gear at home. Also the purchase of my Beyerdynamic T1 (http://europe.beyerdynamic.com/shop/hah/headphones-and-headsets/at-home/music-pleasure/t-1.html) headphones was based on reviews. The Schiit gear I purchased directly from the manufacturer, the headphones were ordered from Thomann (http://www.thomann.de/gb/index.html?sid=db9f6d83d73f7fa518e36364910d9975).
It worked very well for me and I’m happy with the stuff I bought.
Werner.
With a gear named schiit, you just can't go wrong.
icehockeyboy
23-04-2012, 21:32
With a gear named schiit, you just can't go wrong.
Some might say he has a system that's mainly Schit! :lol:
realysm42
23-04-2012, 21:42
They picked that name well, makes eveyone want to have a laugh about it; great way of free advertising. Glad I'm not the only one that's done this (it's an insane way to start, in hindsight lol).
Yeah I hear you MartinT, it's a big risk, not sure what to do... I think my curiosity will get the best of me though :doh:
Unless you happen to upgrade from a PPP to a P10? :scratch:
I think that'd be a pretty safe bet :)
Yes that was a safe bet, although I still maintained the option to return it if I didn't like it. As if that was going to happen!
They picked that name well, makes eveyone want to have a laugh about it; great way of free advertising.
I'm thinking of starting a line of products called 'Fuuck'.
bobbasrah
24-04-2012, 07:15
I'm thinking of starting a line of products called 'Fuuck'.
I can just see the models trotting out Martin, the Government, Me, You, Him, Her, Them, etc...:mental:
....So back to the question, you ever bought anything on reviews instead of an audition and how did it work out for you?
Having been in the position of NOT being able to audition due to location, probably the more common case nowadays for most, I relied heavily on magazine reviews in the early days. The real disappointment I recall was a Nytech receiver designed like a desktop calculator which got rave reviews at the time. Up against the DIY amps I had built previously at a fraction of the cost, this dramatically altered my take on magazine review opinions as my kit DIY amps (Crimson Electrik?) were far superior at a fraction of the cost. :eek:
Probably user opinions now carry more weight for me, and the internet has proven an educational source from that perspective, albeit that there is a lot of hype to wade through on individual forums, just as it was with the magazines. I have bought some gear on the strength of opinions, but some I have avoided despite the hype, so I have been lucky I guess.;)
I would not dream of building headphones, cartridges, arms or decks, but almost everything else is fair game. IMHO Martin, with the money involved in those US speakers, you could probably build better for less from Europe, or indeed have them built for you.....:cool:
Werner Berghofer
24-04-2012, 08:04
Martin,
They picked that name well, makes eveyone want to have a laugh about it
to be honest most reactions to the name “Schiit” appear to me as the giggling of immature males, so the company seems to know its target marketing audience quite well. Being not a native english speaker, my first association to “Schiit” was “shia”, because “Schiit” is the german word for a singular member of this religious community.
I bought this gear because it sounds good and looks good, but I don’t care what name is silk screened on the housing. For me the brand name “Schiit” does in no way sound more funny or crazy than other artificial words like “Revox”, “Marantz”, “Yamaha” or “Sony”.
Werner.
Indeed, Werner. When approaching the word from a Germanic linguistic perspective, it's no funnier than saying to someone: 'Hab eine gute Fahrt'.... ;)
You'll excuse us daft Brits, however, if it raises a titter!
Marco.
realysm42
24-04-2012, 08:30
Bob, you raise an interesting point (about the home brew stuff). It hadn't crossed my mind I could get something bespoke made...
Werner Berghofer
24-04-2012, 09:47
Marco,
it's no funnier than saying to someone: 'Hab eine gute fahrt'
yeah, and then there’s the bawling german speaking audience in a jazz club whenever the tune “Big foot” by Paul Bley is being anncounced. To german speaking ears, “foot” sounds like “Fut”, a not exactly noble alternative for “vagina”.
The last time I laughed about such things was way back in elementary school, but to each his own.
Werner.
Lol - I'll need to remember that one... Yup, I know what you mean, but some of us daftees just can't help loving that type of humour! :D
Marco.
bobbasrah
24-04-2012, 10:03
Bob, you raise an interesting point (about the home brew stuff). It hadn't crossed my mind I could get something bespoke made...
The design that Toppsy made perhaps, there is thread on here I think?
This
http://www.iplacoustics.co.uk/
is just an example of one such designer and supplier, where the drives and crossover parts are both high quality and matched. Other options at
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Diy_Loudspeaker_Projects.htm
The point is that by the time you take account of the cost of the supplied parts, the rest comes down to building the box or OB and finishing/veneering etc..
Even say allocating 600 quid in parts leaves a lot of bunce to build and finish out of your original budget, and they will blow the socks off anything available commercially up to probably 10 times that cost...;)
There are many others to trawl from the net, Google DIY Loudspeakers for a start....:cool:l
. For me the brand name “Schiit” does in no way sound more funny or crazy than other artificial words like “Revox”, “Marantz”, “Yamaha” or “Sony”.
Werner.
Marantz wasn't made up - the company was founded by Saul Marantz
Otherwise - as you were :)
BlueEyes
24-04-2012, 12:31
Ah no chelsea dave is not me greg.
I was using a cr developments 15watt valve amp.
Stuart,
I am sorry I did not get to hear yours too!
The Voyd seems to be the connoisseurs turntable.
Regards,
Greg
The voyd is a lovely deck greg but need to get the helius sorted properly when i have the cash.
Although it works fine it has a bit of rattle so will need sorting.
The Voyd is one of the few non-high mass belt-drive T/Ts I can listen to and really enjoy, simply because somehow it doesn't sound like one (soft-toned and speed inaccurate), but quite the opposite! :eek:
As for buying gear without auditioning it. I wouldn't do it with a major purchase, unless there was no other option (such as I had to do originally with my turntable, and recently with my tonearm), but have done so numerous times with things like cartridges and cables, mostly with great success :)
Marco.
StanleyB
24-04-2012, 12:52
Marantz wasn't made up - the company was founded by Saul Marantz
Neither was Yamaha and Sony.
The voyd is a lovely deck greg but need to get the helius sorted properly when i have the cash.
Is that an Aureus, Stu? Mine had bearings that were never any good even from new.
Neither was Yamaha and Sony.
Sony was definitely a created name, Stan.
The sad truth is that items that have impressed me at auditions have failed to please in the long term at home and items that initially sounded rubbish (my Martin Logans are a case in point) have turned out to be wonderful once I've had chance to play around with them...... Go figure.....
No it is an orion mk3 martin.
I do have a turntable year book from the 80s and was surprised to see how much the mk 2 was £395,bearing in mind the lp12 was £290.
It seems quality has sometimes been an issue.
Sound wise i really like it.
No it is an orion mk3 martin.
Ah, that was a much better arm.
Yes, but that's because I'm stupid.
Gmanuk101
30-04-2012, 07:41
Yes, I bought my entire living room system on the advice of a friend and a money back guarantee from Stanley B. really chuffed
All bought without audition except the speakers, where home trial was essential. Oh and the Roksan Xerxes turntable, an earlier version of which I auditioned in 1986.
realysm42
30-04-2012, 22:34
You happy with it what you have Joe?
The money back makes things a bit easier I'm sure Graeme :)
You happy with it what you have Joe?
Yes, very happy. I've sometimes thought of reducing the box count and going for a super-integrated, just to cut down on the dusting, but no plans to change anything at moment.
littlest hobo
01-05-2012, 17:45
All bought on spec, having previously researched and decided what I want - but then again couldn't justify spending more than £300 on any one thing.
Always buying at low prices and second hand means I always feel I could recoup some or most of the cost should I sell it on.
How many of you have auditioned at home and sent the item back? I'd be a sucker for keeping something I borrowed to audition.
How many of you have auditioned at home and sent the item back?
Often, if it sounded shite! ;)
Marco.
Spectral Morn
01-05-2012, 18:59
Premises based demo, followed by home loan or home loan. Buying without hearing in your system is in my humble opinion mad; either that or you have more money than sense.
Premises based demo, followed by home loan or home loan...
What's the difference - is one of them more special than the other, or have you developed a stutter? :D
Marco.
Premises based demo, followed by home loan or home loan. Buying without hearing in your system is in my humble opinion mad; either that or you have more money than sense.
...Or you can't afford new.
Reid Malenfant
01-05-2012, 19:20
...Or you can't afford new.
Good point, Jerry (jandl100) certainly appears to enjoy himself & doesn't lose much if any money box swapping :)
How many of you have auditioned at home and sent the item back? I'd be a sucker for keeping something I borrowed to audition.
The trick is to do a lot of homework so that you're almost certain it's the right thing for you :)
StanleyB
02-05-2012, 10:09
The thing is that up and down the land drug users are buying gear without any audition ;). It doesn't seem to have affected the market :scratch:.
hoopsontoast
02-05-2012, 10:42
I think the only stuff I have bought after hearing it was a Pair of SCM7's. Just about everything else I have ever bought hifi wise was on a whim :)
I have a trusted mate with very good ears and a lifetimes experience of repairing vintage amps who tells me whats worth listenig to hense no need for auditioning.;)
But must admit curiosity has got the better of me at times :doh:
If you stick with vintage gear you can nearly always get most of your money back and sometimes a bit more
Buying without hearing in your system is in my humble opinion mad; either that or you have more money than sense.
Or, as in my case, both.
Rare Bird
02-05-2012, 22:34
The only time i went to audition something was a Mission 'DAD7000' CD player in the mid 80's.. Never auditioned anything after that, stopped buying new by the late 80's.. Trying to remember what i paid for it, i'm sure it was around £400.00 which was a lot of money for someone in their late teens, i bet thats something like around £900+ in todays money.. :eek:
Reid Malenfant
02-05-2012, 22:46
i bet thats something like around £900+ in todays money.. :eek:
& the rest :eek: :eyebrows:
It'd be more! Take it from me...
The only components I was able to audition at home were my Techie, which was loaned to me by Dingdong, and the DR5, which was loaned to me by Mark (Reid). I am very grateful to them both. Other than that the rest of my gear was bought from ebay so auditions took place at the sellers home (I insist on collecting for that very purpose). The Caiman was bought new and solely from recommendations on AoS and I've no regrets on that score ;)
Just buy secondhand! If you're not daft and happy to take risks on things people don't understand, you can make a profit sometimes and add that extra amount on to your next purchase until your system grows and grows.
You will also discover unusual pieces whereas the things available for audition will be just the usual mainstream stuff.
Hesitation and caution and need for audition just slows life down - take a risk and take action I say! So something you bought doesn't sound great with your current room / gear? You've gained knowledge for one thing and you can sell it off again easily.
I don't relate to the need to buy new and immediately suffer massive depreciation in a hobby where trying new things is part of the fun. New for me would be a buy-and-forget system.. and in such a world I doubt I would be on forums, I'd just be playing music.
Maybe though auditioning from dealers is another game to be enjoyed, a game acting like a real connoisseur, a millionaire or something with your dealer trying hard to please?
chris@panteg
06-05-2012, 09:18
Might be of interest ? But my old pal John has recently sent his Helius Orion to Helius for a complete service and restoration ! Cost is £150 approx , but he also after much nagging from moi , having his Voyd PSU serviced and series 1000 pre worked over by David Wright , oh and IO rebuilt .
I'm pleased he's doing this as his system has been sounding a bit ropey and I'm keen to hear the results ! Especially what DW can do with the tired old 1000 pre amp .
Sorry if it's a bit off topic , but it might be relevant as he has no idea what the 1000 will end up sounding like ? David Wright is very highly regarded and John has confidence the results will be to his liking and taste.
michaelhigh
14-05-2012, 17:26
I bought the Sony XDRF1-HD without audition, there was a years-old thread touting it on AudioKarma, so that was a no-brainer. I bought the schiit bifrost DAC (sorry Stanley) on the advice of lots of satisfied owners, so that too was a good go. I bought my Decware Zen Triode Select on good advice from a local toob genius, so that worked out well. Seems like when I trust a consensus or certain local smart people to guide me I'm usually in for a sonic treat. No bummers that way...yet.:D
The only item of gear in my system that was auditioned were my speakers. Good job, as we intended to buy some Spendor S3/5s only for them to get absolutely smoked by a pair of Amphion Argon2s during a demo... :)
Reading a variety of different reviews from different sources can give surprisingly accurate results without having to resort to demoing gear beforehand.
walpurgis
21-05-2012, 23:16
Hi Folks. I generally, but not always, buy second hand and nearly always buy without audition. But I do research my choices and am often guided by the design of prospective items. I don't make many bad selections. Totally unauditioned fairly recent purchases that have hugely exceeded my expectations have been Zyx pickup cartridges, Monarchy Audio SM-70 Pro and SM-70 Class A power amplifiers, Tannoy System 800 speakers, and the little Parasound Zamp v.3 power amplifier which has to be one of the biggest bargains about as it sounds incredibly good (and the answer is yes, I do buy and keep rather too much stuff). Geoff.
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