Recorded vs Live music

[realysm42]

I've never been to a proper "live" gig (I'm more of a Drum and Bass type) but I've always heard people saying you can't beat live music, why is this?

Is it the atmosphere that comes with seeing acts live or do you think that the music technically sounds better too.

I can relate to the former (the experience) side of things; it's great being surrounded by like minded people, with a rig that will be far louder than I'll ever have (or want) at home.

If it's the latter, why? I doubt the sound engineers etc have the same amazing gear that some of us have nor the time to sit back and stroke their chins as comprehensively as us do. Also, unless it's being recorded, it's not like they can clean/edit the sound to the same extent they would in a studio.

[PaulStewart]

A lot of PA gear is top quality at the top end of the game. When I worked with Phil Jones (later of Acoustic Energy, Boston Acoustics Etc. Fame) at dB Hire we ran a rig that was all horn loaded with drivers from Altec, JBL and Tannoy. Apart from the 15Hz folded horn sub woofer which was developed in-house, the horns were RCA, Altec, Westrex and JBL. A lot of this kit was from studio monitors. The amps were Amcron and Yamaha. Couple with the high quality of our ex studio mixing desks this balanced connection system was about as good as it gets and way better than most people would have at home.

However the technical reasons are not the only reason why live music can be better. It is rare to get in the studio, the sort of emotional buzz you get at a gig. I remember a Chaz and Dave recording session at Abbey Road where, they got a load of mates into the large studio, put in a free bar and had a party 'cause that was the sort of vibe they wanted on the album. Everyone was asked to to applaud until 5 seconds after the end of the music so they could get a clean end to the tracks. When I was Tech Liaison officer for JVC one of the Hi-Fi mags asked several "Experts", their words not mine:), what upgrade we would recommend for around £50.00. I said "Take you girlfriend out to a couple of gigs, (this was the early 80,s and you could do it on that money then), because by hearing good music you would know what iy was you were trying to reproduce at home.:);):)

[The Grand Wazoo]

Well, there's all the above as well as the small matter of real people interacting with their instruments and each other to create a unique musical 'moment'.

[Stratmangler]

Well, there's all the above as well as the small matter of real people interacting with their instruments and each other to create a unique musical 'moment'.

Not to mention the audience feeding on the energy of the band feeding off the energy of the audience....
It's magical when that happens :)

[Thing Fish]

Against the above is the cost and the time. Its ok seeing a small band in a small venue that's near to home. But spend a 4 hour round trip getting to wembly and £40 on a ticket where you could be what seems like a mile from the stage just to listen to the 'wembly boom' effect. No thanks...!!!

As I said small venues are ok but you can keep the larger ones as far as i'm concerned.

[maxrob200]

Listen to a real BIg Band where the only amplification is for the vocalists and it sort of redefines where the humble hi fi system stand in the scheme of things
Support live music!

[John]

For me live music is my bench mark
But as people said going to good concert there is a connection between the artist of the crowd where they mutually feed off each other. For me seeing a really great gig is a eurphoric experience

[snuffbox]

If your in SW London try the Bull at Barnes for some pub based jazz,they have some top performers there.
The Quecumbar in Battersea is a great place for Gipsy Jazz(Django) there's no shortage of places to experience music at an intimate level in your area.
I saw Chaz and Dave last year at a local theatre and that wasn't to big that the performancwas lost in the space as it does at the big Wembley size gigs.
You just have to get out there and suck it and see.
First and foremost music is about emotion and you dont get that sitting in front of a system until you experience the real thing.
A bit like trying to understand what being in love and making love is about when your only experience is having a wank.

[dantheman91]

Hi

The experience of a live band is phonomnal the way the band endulgies with the crowd and the energy is superb for me its the bench mark for music.

[PaulStewart]

A bit like trying to understand what being in love and making love is about when your only experience is having a wank.

So true, Pete Skellern recounts a tale from his days at the Guildhall school of music. He was playing Debussy's Girl with the flaxen hair and not getting the feel of it at all, his tutor suddenly said "You're a virgin aren't you"? Go away a sortvthat out and you will be able to play this piece. Skellern says that he told this to his then girlfriend, (later his wife) and she sorted the situation. Atvhis next tutorial, without any other comment, he sat down and played the piece. His tutor merely said "See! I told you. Which just goes to show that music is an emotional experience:lol:

[realysm42]

Just to clarify, I have been to live music events, but pretty much only to hear Drum and Bass, not "your typical (traditional?)" bands, so wante dto capture opinions on this type of gig.

I've got a mate that's well into Jazz so I might go check some bits out with him.

[BlueEyes]

For me live music is my bench mark
But as people said going to good concert there is a connection between the artist of the crowd where they mutually feed off each other. For me seeing a really great gig is a eurphoric experience

I totally agree.

I watched Ry Cooder a year or two ago in Liverpool just break into a riff that was a different arrangement to the recording of the song he was playing and was breathtaking and watching David Byrne at Nottingham in 2009 was no less so.

I am not a musician but I can understand that long after a song has been recorded a musician might think of different ways they might have recorded it or even prefer a different arrangement.

This is the joy of a live gig where the performer puts his soul into conveying the music to the audience.

Just think of those people that watch Match of the Day but never watch a live game. You can watch a lot of crap on your travels but when it happens in both football and music it is magical and makes life worth living.

[magiccarpetride]

I've never been to a proper "live" gig (I'm more of a Drum and Bass type) but I've always heard people saying you can't beat live music, why is this?

Is it the atmosphere that comes with seeing acts live or do you think that the music technically sounds better too.

I can relate to the former (the experience) side of things; it's great being surrounded by like minded people, with a rig that will be far louder than I'll ever have (or want) at home.

If it's the latter, why? I doubt the sound engineers etc have the same amazing gear that some of us have nor the time to sit back and stroke their chins as comprehensively as us do. Also, unless it's being recorded, it's not like they can clean/edit the sound to the same extent they would in a studio.

I was rushing to a subway station the other day and walked by a busker who was playing violin. For a very brief moment, as I was leaving him behind me, I perked my ears and asked myself if the sound of his violin was in any way different from the sound of violin that I'm used to hearing come out of my finely balanced hi fi.

The answer immediately came back at me and hit me right in the gut -- the sound of his rickety old violin was so superior to anything I've ever heard come out of any ultra high end, state-of-the-art hi fi, that it wasn't even funny. There were seemingly countless flurries of breathtaking transients and higher order harmonics just fluttering up in the air. The sound of that violin was incalculably more complex than any sound I was ever able to get out of any speakers.

Keep in mind that this realization came to me in the midst of the most inopportune situation -- a busy, noisy train station, with lots of distracting calls, incessant chatter bouncing off the walls, plus the extremely lousy acoustics of the ugly quasi-modern steel-and-glass edifice. Even such appalling 'room acoustics' couldn't diminish the beauty of the violin sound. Plus, the guy wasn't really the greatest violin player either; and I can't blame him, because his fingers must have been frozen in a lousy cold wet weather.

[Tim]

Live music for me is what its really all about, there is nothing like the connection you get with an artist performing at their best. I go to around 50 or so gigs a year plus the odd festival, mostly at small venues and Hammersmith Apollo is about as big as I will go these days, but the smaller the better.

Its not so much about the sound quality and these days you have to have a pretty crap guy on the sound-desk to completely make a hash of it, but the RAH is a very tricky room as commented on. Of the gigs I go to some are poor, most are good, some are very good and every now and again you will have a totally moving and life enhancing experience. I sat transfixed 4 weeks ago at one of the best gigs of my life, presented by Gretchen Peters in Bush Hall. There was something special in the room that night, which she commented on and it has been written about numerous times since on blogs and by the music press. That type of experience IMO you can never ever get sat in a room with a stereo in front of you. I love listening to music whenever I can, but for me there is nothing like experiencing it live by an artist, who will at times pour their hearts out to you with stories about their lives - as a fairly emotional human being I find that kind of openness and honesty incredibly moving and highly addictive.

:)

[SPS]

I was rushing to a subway station the other day and walked by a busker who was playing violin. For a very brief moment, as I was leaving him behind me, I perked my ears and asked myself if the sound of his violin was in any way different from the sound of violin that I'm used to hearing come out of my finely balanced hi fi.

The answer immediately came back at me and hit me right in the gut -- the sound of his rickety old violin was so superior to anything I've ever heard come out of any ultra high end, state-of-the-art hi fi, that it wasn't even funny. There were seemingly countless flurries of breathtaking transients and higher order harmonics just fluttering up in the air. The sound of that violin was incalculably more complex than any sound I was ever able to get out of any speakers.

.

that does beg the question where have those harmonics gone, and where are the losses...recording, playback? i would guess both to a point

i have often wondered how much of the music the average hi fi system filters out. i would guess quite a large % of the finer information in a well recorded disc..

[The Grand Wazoo]

Take a listen to this track I've linked to below from the Joe Jackson - 'Live 1980 - 1986' album.
Listen to the way that he and the band build up the tension with the song, then release it only to build it up again.
Towards the end it's built up to an almost unbearable point, when at about 6'50" and you feel something's going to pop, he lets it go. This is the best recorded example I know of where the band and audience are doing that feeding off each other thing. In the sleeve notes, Jackson points out that, at this point a girl in the audience burst into tears. That sort of experience can be recorded and written about but you had to be there to really understand the energy that was created.

spotify:track:2KdSkiyahFhOHwl9kFMooY

If you don't have Spotify, you can listen to it on Grooveshark, but at slightly lower resolution.

http://grooveshark.com/s/A+Slow+Song/zSHbd?src=5

[Stumpy]

Thanks Wazoo. I'd forgotten about JJ. Used to listen to him back in my "HiFi" days. Haven't done for donkeys years.

[Pete The Cat]

The smell of leather and sweat, the humming of the amps, the creaking of the stage, "1-2-3-4", the Ramones a few feet from me - Sheffield 1987. Live music makes memories.

Pete

[Tim]

Live music makes memories
Spot on :)

[Chops]

Just to provide a balance, I don't think its all roses. I've been to a number of gigs/concerts where I came out thinking that I'd rather have been listening to the same at home, the band just having reproduced from their latest release/back catalogue - not much interaction or change.

I'm not a jazz lover, but have very much enjoyed seeing Portico Quartet and Matthew Halsall live - distinctly better experience than their recorded music IMHO. Quite surprising.

Chris

[Tim]

Just to provide a balance, I don't think its all roses. I've been to a number of gigs/concerts where I came out thinking that I'd rather have been listening to the same at home
Yes, for sure Chris, as I said in my post some gigs can be dreadful and I have walked out of a couple as well. But . . . just like anything, you have to endure the mundane in order to appreciate the sublime ;)

[MartinT]

I go to classical concerts to hear the real deal: what the composer intended, played by live acoustic instruments to a live audience. The effect can be monumental, overwhelming and very memorable. The sound created is virtually impossible to reproduce by a hi-fi system, a mere facsimile of the real thing.

I go to rock concerts for the atmosphere, to see the performers I love doing their thing and interacting with a real audience. The sound in such concerts ranges from acceptable to down-right dreadful. It is rarely better than good, mostly because the venue is the limiting factor. I listen to the same music on a studio album because that is the artist's statement, the ultimate expression of their creation in a perfect environment. It may be artificial but it's a valid alternative.

Tricky: for me, there are four different experiences in the above, each with a different emotional impact.

[Chops]

Yes, for sure Chris, as I said in my post some gigs can be dreadful and I have walked out of a couple as well. But . . . just like anything, you have to endure the mundane in order to appreciate the sublime ;)

Agreed Tim. For me, I feel that the 'ol 80:20 rule is the wrong way round here. Too much mundane stuff or worse. And the venue also makes a substantial difference. Sage (Gateshead) auditorium 1 I wouldn't go rushing to, for example. I much prefer intimate venues. Maybe I'm just hard to please.:rolleyes:

Chris

[Stratmangler]

I go to classical concerts to hear the real deal: what the composer intended

T'aint exactly so.
1 - Many of the instruments used today are not the same as when the piece was composed.
2 - When chaps like Mozart & Beethoven were knocking about it was commonplace for leading musicians to improvise their parts, which is definitely not the case today.
Today the emphasis is on interpretation.

[MartinT]

Yes Chris, but that's nit-picking. In any case, I've been to performances using ancient instruments, too. As for interpretation, yes many cadenzas are played strictly as written down but some soloists do play their own virtuoso sections where marked.

[Tim]

Maybe I'm just hard to please.:rolleyes:
If you are hard to please Chris, you wouldn't be alone. When I do go to concerts with other people (I mostly go solo and prefer it that way), I often get comments from casual attendee's that it doesn't sound like the record and they leave disappointed. This is a great shame as they have missed the point IMO. I think some audiophiles don't make great concert goers, as they can be far too critical of the sound and concentrate on that, whilst missing what's actually going on both on and off the stage. If you go to a lot of gigs you also find out where the sound is best and I have driven nearly 200 miles to see bands at venues I could have seen half that distance away, but at crap halls. It's not just the venue either, a lot of audiences can make or break a good gig too. I have seen some bloody marvelous gigs in Wolverhampton which is mostly down to the crowd - this can make a huge difference to the band as they feed off that energy. I once saw John Mayer twice on the same tour, the first gig in Wolverhampton ranks amongst the best I have been to, the second show was dire and I left wishing I hadn't bothered.

Classical concerts as Martin has pointed out are rather different and can at times transcend just about anything else you will hear or experience.

[realysm42]

Are the ancient instruments audibly different? Better or worse?

I've been to some nights out where the quality of the sound setup just wasn't right; really spoils it for me.

[MartinT]

Are the ancient instruments audibly different? Better or worse?

Yes they are audibly different but you need to know what modern instruments sound like as a baseline. Not better or worse, just different. For instance, Baroque music from the likes of Vivaldi and Bach can really benefit from original instruments with their more characterful sound but lower volume.

However, once you reach transitional music from, say, Beethoven, then I personally prefer modern instruments. I want the 5th symphony to sound overwhelming, not dainty.

[DavefromDorset]

Like the OP I don't go to that many concerts, but when I do I always take away something that makes the performance memorable. Be it an organist practising in a cathedral (particularly in France, where they seem to go for the secular avant-garde over the traditional religious) or, as on Friday, a charity multi-performer bash for a local musician who has died of motor neurone disease, the music is translated into an emotion that is pretty much absent from my hi-fi experience (unless it's alcohol and air-guitar induced).

Dave

[Gmanuk101]

interesting question mate!

I've been to both, I was a detroit techno and drum and bass Dj and ran my own night for a while some years ago...I am also a fan of the live music.

The studio work gives the artist more freedom via longer time span and you can hear things on the recording you wouldn't get live. However it's also on the flip side, like people say the feeling that the artist is playing for YOU and of course the mistakes they make as if it's perfect then it just doesn't sound right (for live performances on original material).

The classical gig is a great one to try, really opens up your ears. I went to a performance at the Sydney opera house and was blown away!

So the simple answer is you can't compare it imo. I always felt cheated if I went to the gig and it sounded like the album.

[dave2010]

I was rushing to a subway station the other day and walked by a busker who was playing violin. For a very brief moment, as I was leaving him behind me, I perked my ears and asked myself if the sound of his violin was in any way different from the sound of violin that I'm used to hearing come out of my finely balanced hi fi.

The answer immediately came back at me and hit me right in the gut -- the sound of his rickety old violin was so superior to anything I've ever heard come out of any ultra high end, state-of-the-art hi fi, that it wasn't even funny. There were seemingly countless flurries of breathtaking transients and higher order harmonics just fluttering up in the air. The sound of that violin was incalculably more complex than any sound I was ever able to get out of any speakers.

Keep in mind that this realization came to me in the midst of the most inopportune situation -- a busy, noisy train station, with lots of distracting calls, incessant chatter bouncing off the walls, plus the extremely lousy acoustics of the ugly quasi-modern steel-and-glass edifice. Even such appalling 'room acoustics' couldn't diminish the beauty of the violin sound. Plus, the guy wasn't really the greatest violin player either; and I can't blame him, because his fingers must have been frozen in a lousy cold wet weather.
Absolutely!