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MartinT
31-12-2008, 13:50
My Technics arrived this morning to much excitement. These are my first impressions. Everything was well packaged and seemed complete. The only shock was how little documentation the Jelco SA250ST arm came with; after having previously owned SME Series II, III and IV arms with their very complete kits I was a little dismayed at virtually zero instructions and only a set of allen keys to get it all set up!

Putting it all together offered little challenge: the Feet 1 went into the recesses left by the Technics feet without trouble. Platter and mats all assembled easily and I got the nicely finished TimeStep PSU box plugged in and warming up while I tackled the cartridge. I started with the Grado Prestige Gold, scrambling around to find the colour codes for the wires because Grado, being American, insist on using obscure letters for the pins. Not having an alignment protractor in the kit, I used the Jelco template indication that the stylus point should exactly align with the end of the headshell, using a set square to get it right. I set the tracking weight at 1.6g, bias similarly and then looked for the arm height allen bolt, taking a guess in the end at the right one. I set the arm height at parallel to the record surface with the stylus resting gently in the groove.

I did try the audiophile mat on its own but found that the platter still rings faintly like a bell, so I placed my SDS Isoplatmat on first followed by the audiophile mat. This combination is completely dead.

So on to the first record: the eponymous Dire Straits LP. Playing Sultans of Swing I could immediately hear the textural clarity of this deck. My Ushers were revelling in the tight, dynamic bass and midrange clarity, all sounding a little more live and exciting than the CD version. However, I could not eliminate the Grado's hum no matter what I did with cables and phono amp positioning. I could also hear the Grado's colourations more clearly than I ever had with my previous deck.

I played several more albums and decided that the Grado was holding back proceedings. Time for a change: I swapped the Grado for a Denon DL-160 brand new out of the box, tracking at the recommended 1.6g. I expected shrill treble and all the signs of a not yet run-in cartridge, but what I got was wider stereo stage, lower hum, much lower surface noise, fabulous, uncoloured midrange and all the signs that the bass was really going to rock after about 50 hours on the cartridge.

My thanks go to Dave Cawley who has reawakened my lifelong love of records and LP playback.

System: as footer, with Gram Amp 2SE phono amp and PSU1-24 upgrade, Bruil aluminium weight, SDS Isoplatmat.

More thoughts and photos to come.

MartinT
31-12-2008, 14:24
http://www.mtc.nildram.co.uk/images/SL1210-1.jpg
The new deck in all its glory!

http://www.mtc.nildram.co.uk/images/SL1210-2.jpg
On my Solid Tech system rack next to the Ayre SACD player. You can see the TimeStep PSU on second shelf, between the Pass Labs PSU and Gram Amp 2SE.

http://www.mtc.nildram.co.uk/images/SL1210-3.jpg
Close-up of Denon DL-160 in Jelco arm - gosh, what dust macro mode shows up!

John
31-12-2008, 14:29
Nice write up Martin and good to see someone else back into vinyl

Dave Cawley
31-12-2008, 14:41
Thanks! I would move both PSU's away from under the turntable.

Regards

Dave

Primalsea
31-12-2008, 15:09
OMFG thats a shit load of dust!!

Do you rub ballons over your records before you play them or something?

Seriously you need to tackle that dust issue as it will hold back the quality of playback.

Arlequen
31-12-2008, 15:09
Nice write up Martin and good to see someone else back into vinyl

I agree with John!
Thumb up for Martin! :gig:

ps: Martin don't forget to buy the Boston Audio Mat1 for the SL1210 .. I have the same SL and the Boston A.Mat1 improves its sound as you can't believe

MartinT
31-12-2008, 15:31
Seriously you need to tackle that dust issue as it will hold back the quality of playback

The camera macro mode with flash super-emphasises it, it just doesn't look like that to the naked eye! I always keep everything clean and put my LPs in Nagaoka inner sleeves. However, point made and I've gone over everything again with a soft brush. I hear very little surface noise in reality.

MartinT
31-12-2008, 15:34
I would move both PSU's away from under the turntable

I'll look to see what I can do, although space is at a premium.

By the way, I like the re-use of the power switch for strobe disable, very neat indeed!

chris@panteg
31-12-2008, 19:44
Hi martin that's a great set up ,i thought you would like the dl160 it does sound wider and deeper and mine is well run in now i think , the thing that surprised me was the almost total lack of hum and indeed low surface noise.

I am looking to to get the timestep PSU in the new year ,glad you like your new 1210 what a fine deck it is .

Beechwoods
31-12-2008, 20:50
I would move both PSU's away from under the turntable.

If moving the PSU's is a problem space-wise, you could always try a sheet of electro-magnetic interference (EMI) suppressant material underneath the turntable. This can work wonders on hum and higher frequency interference.

MartinT
31-12-2008, 22:00
you could always try a sheet of electro-magnetic interference (EMI) suppressant material underneath the turntable

That was where my thinking was going. So what sort of material is best and where could I get it from? Or would an earthed sheet of mild steel do the trick?

Beechwoods
31-12-2008, 22:12
Well I just knew it as Mu-Metal http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mu-metal but I don't know if it is also marketed under any specific brandname. I'm sure that someone here would be able to point to somewhere where you could get some - or Google may be a good starting place : http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&client=safari&rls=en-us&q=mu-metal&btnG=Search&meta=cr%3DcountryUK%7CcountryGB

Marco
31-12-2008, 22:32
Hi Martin,

I've got to this one quite late. I just wanted to say congrats on your new turntable. It looks great and I hope you get lots of musical enjoyment from it :)

I've had too much booze now to write coherently but will comment more later. Happy New Year! :glug: :cheers:

Marco.

MartinT
31-12-2008, 23:30
Happy New Year to everyone! Too much mulled wine here...

Primalsea
31-12-2008, 23:57
Mu metal can be hard to get hold of but for the level of interference you probably have a large sheet of brushed aluminium from Maplins or Rapid Electronics will do the job. You will need to earth though. This can be done by drilling a 3mm hole in one corner and bolting a ring crimp connector connected to an earth lead using a star washer. What ever you use it really needs to be earthed in order to work properly.

What do yoy think about the PS Audio Power Plant. Howard done a demo for me a while ago and it done many things right but I felt it made the treble a bit too smooth for my liking. However thinking of using it for everything but the power amp or pulling my trusty back up Kel84 amp and bi amping, using the Kel84 on the treble without it going through the power plant.

MartinT
01-01-2009, 07:08
What do yoy think about the PS Audio Power Plant

I used to run a Power Plant P300 just feeding my source components. It certainly enhanced the system with a lower noise floor, greater detail and sense of clean transparency. When I upgraded to the Premier I could at last plug the power amp in too, since it can supply a total of 1.5kW to components. This gave huge benefits, much more so than I expected from a design using a switched mode power supply. Now my system's synergy is superb with everything playing from a black noise floor, crystalline clarity and smooth extended treble.

It could be that you are hearing a small roughness in your system being removed by the Premier. It does have a smoothing effect, but listen further and you will hear more shape and texture to the notes. The PPP really is a mandatory system upgrade, in my opinion, for all systems that have reached a fundamentally good level of performance. I know of no other way of upgrading a system by so much for relatively little outlay.

Primalsea
01-01-2009, 09:45
Thanks Martin,

MartinT
01-01-2009, 18:25
Dave - I want to get my cartridge alignment as precise as I can. What is the best alignment method or protractor to use with the Jelco 250?

Arlequen
01-01-2009, 19:25
... the best alignment method or protractor to use with the Jelco 250?

Call Yip at mintlp.com and tell him you have a SL1200 with a Jelco 250.. he 'll send you his magic Best Tractor

Dave Cawley
01-01-2009, 19:25
I use the Clearaudio one; very, very expensive! There will be people here that can help though?

BTW http://www.tonepublications.com/ToneAudio/Magazine.html want to review one, and they shall!!

Dave

Arlequen
01-01-2009, 19:34
I use the Clearaudio one
Another good method to set the cartridge .. less precise than the MintLP .. but valid on multiple tts - arms

MartinT
01-01-2009, 19:45
Thanks both. I have made an enquiry of the Mint people, will let you know what they say. I guess they must have a comprehensive library of arm and turntable data, otherwise I cannot see how they can produce custom protractors.

Beechwoods
02-01-2009, 10:07
I've been in touch with Mint too. Yip is a really friendly guy. They have details of loads of kit on file, but mine has flummoxed them so they've asked for the specifically published measurements of effective length, mounting distance, and offset angle. The Jelco - Technics combination will not be a problem for Mint to sort out though!

MartinT
02-01-2009, 10:48
Yip did ask me a couple of questions about the Jelco which I managed to answer from the supplied mounting template. I'm waiting for him to return home and will send payment as soon as he is ready.

I had another go at aligning the cartridge today and reckon I've got it slightly better set up, but I desparately need a protractor to get it exact.

MartinT
04-01-2009, 12:07
I fixed my hum problem, which was strangely an artifact of the PS Audio Power Plant Premier. Once I set the output to Multiwave (rather than straight sinewave), the hum disappeared and I have a nice low-ish noise floor. Much better!

Beechwoods
04-01-2009, 19:05
Fantastic! I'm glad you got that sorted :)

Peter Stockwell
06-01-2009, 07:36
I had another go at aligning the cartridge today and reckon I've got it slightly better set up, but I desparately need a protractor to get it exact.

Martin,

I used to worry about this, even bought (2nd hand) a feickert alignment guage. But since there can be only two null points over the tracing arc of a pivoted tonearm, how can any alignment truly be exact ?

This is something I have trouble understanding, what am I missing ?

cheers

MartinT
06-01-2009, 09:00
Peter - I've stopped worrying about it. The alignment looks to be as close as I can get it, using a couple of downloaded protractors to double-check. Even so, I've ordered a Mint Best Tractor to be sure for the future.

More importantly, the mat issue was leading me astray and now that I've discarded the SDS Isoplatmat and am using the Audiophile mat straight on the platter, that plus the improved alignment have snapped everything into tight, dynamic, focused but very widescreen sound. I'm just loving it at the moment!

Peter Stockwell
06-01-2009, 09:59
More importantly, the mat issue was leading me astray and now that I've discarded the SDS Isoplatmat and am using the Audiophile mat straight on the platter, that plus the improved alignment have snapped everything into tight, dynamic, focused but very widescreen sound. I'm just loving it at the moment!

That's the sound hifi mat ?

I'm still using the SDS Isoplatmat under the stock technics rubber mat. I can't tell much difference with and without the SDS. I was using a HiCapped Stageline for view breif minutes this weekend and the sound was great, tight detailed dynamic without harshness, but I was careles with swapping cables and I think I've knackered the Hicap, the HiCap/Stageline combo buzzes like hell.

Gone back to the Clearaudio nano which is a nice little phonostage but it's clearly lacking in resolution.

I just ordered a new arm from Dave and I can't wait for it to arrive!

cheers

jonners
06-01-2009, 10:51
Martin T -

I see you are using the Jelco 250 arm. I'm wondering if you compared it with the 750? Maybe the choice is cartridge-dependent? - I'm using the Denon DL110 on my Technics, in the standard arm.

John

MartinT
06-01-2009, 11:09
Peter - yes, that's the Sound Hi-Fi mat, now used without the SDS mat. I couldn't believe the difference it made, everything became a lot clearer with just the Audiophile mat making direct contact with the platter. I'm happy with my Gram Amp 2SE, I think it has enough resolution for the moment. Will look at something like the Whest when I have more funds, but have spent enough on hi-fi this year!

John - I didn't compare arms as that is practically impossible. I took Dave Cawley's advice based on the cartridges I was going to use. I'm very happy with the choice, it's an excellent arm and reminds me in sound terms somewhat of the SME IV.

Peter Stockwell
06-01-2009, 12:07
yes, that's the Sound Hi-Fi mat, .... I couldn't believe the difference it made, everything became a lot clearer with just the Audiophile mat making direct contact with the platter.

...

I didn't compare arms as that is practically impossible. .... it's (Jelco 250ST) an excellent arm and reminds me in sound terms somewhat of the SME IV.

Rats! Looks like I'll have to get the sound hifi mat.

Interesting remark about the Jelco/SME IV comparison as I've coveted an SME IV but always balked at the price!

cheers

chris@panteg
06-01-2009, 12:37
Hi martin
How are you getting on with DL160' i rather like it , and what do you think of the time step psu has anybody a/b it against the std one.

Marco
06-01-2009, 13:59
Peter - yes, that's the Sound Hi-Fi mat, now used without the SDS mat. I couldn't believe the difference it made, everything became a lot clearer with just the Audiophile mat making direct contact with the platter.


Spot on, Martin - that is exactly the case and what I reported on Dave's 1210 thread.

Ideally, if you can achieve correct VTA with your cartridge, you only want one mat on the 1210, otherwise in terms of sonic effect you end up with a dog's dinner and the record not being properly coupled to the platter. I didn't realise until I visited Dave and heard the effect of his mat that I'd been using the wrong combo for about a year (since I got the KAB 1210)!

I need to contribute to Gromit's mat thread, and will do so later...

Peter,

Did you see the new pics of my system? Have a squint - you might find it interesting :):

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1754

Marco.

Peter Stockwell
06-01-2009, 14:30
Marco,

Hadn't got through all the pictures, but I have to admit is that Jelco looks a nice piece of kit, chapeau!

I've got to wait another week, at least, before my new arm arrives, then I've got to take the deck to bits to fit it. The mechanical stuff doesn't bother me, it's soldering fine wires I hate!

I can feel an SP10 coming on, though, before the year's out. I'm going to sell the Garrard very shortly, it's seems like a ripe moment, I should be able to finance an SP10 mkII with the proceeds.

Your listening room looks like the dark side of the force ;)

cheers

jonners
06-01-2009, 16:46
John - I didn't compare arms as that is practically impossible. I took Dave Cawley's advice based on the cartridges I was going to use. I'm very happy with the choice, it's an excellent arm and reminds me in sound terms somewhat of the SME IV.

Yes, thanks Martin. I suspected that the choice of arm would depend on cartridge used. Good news, though - the 250 being cheaper. :)

John

MartinT
06-01-2009, 19:20
Interesting remark about the Jelco/SME IV comparison as I've coveted an SME IV but always balked at the price!

I used to own an SME IV and it is a beautiful object to behold, part engineering excellence and part pure art form. I know its sound well and the Jelco is not a million miles away, although I used to run an AT OC9 Anniversary then and I run a Denon DL-160 now, so some differences there but it doesn't disguise what I can best describe as a structural quality with extended and textural bass and very wide and deep soundstage.

Selling that SME is my biggest regret but I have to say the Jelco on Technics has pleased me no end. Fabulous combination!

MartinT
06-01-2009, 20:37
I didn't realise until I visited Dave and heard the effect of his mat that I'd been using the wrong combo for about a year

Which mat are you using now? The Achromat?

Pete
06-01-2009, 20:38
I ordered the SME 309 for my 1210, hopefully in a few weeks I'll know what a difference an arm can make.

Marco
06-01-2009, 20:49
Which mat are you using now? The Achromat?

LOL. Some people aren't paying attention to certain threads! ;)

I'm using Dave's own mat (a modified Herbie's) - the one shown on his website :)

This is in my opinion unquestionably the best mat to use on a 1210; on its own in conjunction with a record clamp or weight. For those who think it's a bit pricey, knowing Dave, I'm sure he would offer a discount for AOS members.

Marco.

P.S Pete, good luck with the 309 - I'm sure it'll work a treat!

Pete
06-01-2009, 22:24
Marco.

P.S Pete, good luck with the 309 - I'm sure it'll work a treat!

I hope so, the credit card is really hurting at this point... :)

Gromit
06-01-2009, 22:25
For those who think it's a bit pricey, knowing Dave, I'm sure he would offer a discount for AOS members.

Marco.

Marco - if he does, I'll order one in the morning ;)

Marco
06-01-2009, 22:38
Rich,

Just email or give him a bell - I'm sure you won't be disappointed ;)

Sorry I haven't contributed to your mats thread. There's lots I could add to that but it's difficult to keep track with all the threads I'm involved in and/or can contribute to :)

Marco.

MartinT
06-01-2009, 22:53
LOL. Some people aren't paying attention to certain threads

Sorry, must have missed that somewhere - it's hard to keep up in here! So effectively you and I have ended up with the same mat after experimenting with the SDS. That says a lot and definitely lends weight to the Sound Hi-Fi Audiophile mat being a strong solution for the 1210.

MartinT
06-01-2009, 22:58
How are you getting on with DL160' i rather like it , and what do you think of the time step psu has anybody a/b it against the std one.

Hi Chris

The DL160 is superb now that it's run-in. I like its all-round excellent performance, superb tracking, low noise and super-wide soundstage. I wager it's a better cartridge than the AT OC7 and OC9 carts I used to run.

Regarding the TimeStep, I can't divorce it from the 1210 in the form that I have it. All I can say is that the 1210 is quite a lot better platform than my old Roksan Xerxes was, and that had the updated motor electronics.

chris@panteg
06-01-2009, 23:14
Hi Martin

That's great yes it does have a very wide soundstage it really does blow me away and yes it could be a real giant killer.

Better than a Xerxes you say' somehow i should not be surprised ' but the Xerxes was and still is a very fine deck ,many felt it was superior to the LP12.

Like Marco keeps saying i won't go back to belt drives now.

Peter Stockwell
07-01-2009, 08:24
LOL. Some people aren't paying attention to certain threads! ;)

I'm using Dave's own mat (a modified Herbie's) - the one shown on his website :)

This is in my opinion unquestionably the best mat to use on a 1210; on its own in conjunction with a record clamp or weight.

Marco,

Can you for the record tell us what is the overall diameter of the Herbie's mat? Looking over the Herbies mat website, there's a specific model for the SL1200/SL1210 with a 285mm (11.25 inch) diameter and a thickness of 3.7mm (If memory serves)

http://herbiesaudiolab.home.att.net/ttmat.htm

¡ muchas gracias !

Dave Cawley
07-01-2009, 09:25
Unfortunately there isn't one that fits, that is why we commissioned Herbie to make one specially for us. You could get a standard one and cut it down with a pair of scissors? Or simply buy a custom made one from us!

Dave

Peter Stockwell
07-01-2009, 09:51
Dave,

Just trying to cut out the middleman ;)

But thanks for the info :)

Dave Cawley
07-01-2009, 10:06
Just trying to cut out the middleman

OK, no problem, I did all the hard work and now I'll have send the 6 year old out to work now!!

Dave

MartinT
07-01-2009, 10:09
Dave - quick one. Was it intentional that the stylus illuminator cannot be defeated? I press the button and nothing happens, it won't turn off.

Dave Cawley
07-01-2009, 10:21
That's odd? Anyone else? My referance unit is a mile away having the new arm mounts measured right now.

Dave

Peter Stockwell
07-01-2009, 11:32
Just trying to cut out the middleman

OK, no problem, I did all the hard work and now I'll have send the 6 year old out to work now!!

Dave

I never would have worried about the mat diameter, until reading your writings here and on vinylengine.

I should have kept mouth shut, I've just looked into getting a Herbies mat from the source and your price is very reasonable. I gaffed big time :doh:

Did not mean to offend.

cheers