PDA

View Full Version : 4K is now on sale



Reid Malenfant
18-03-2012, 21:07
Toshiba are now selling a 4K 55" TV that also produces 3D images without silly glasses :scratch:

So thats 3840 x 2160 pixels :eek:

Now we just need a very good scaler for our blu ray players :eyebrows:

http://www.t3.com/news/toshiba-zl2-glasses-free-3dtv-launched

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-2112059/Toshibas-ZL2-3D-TV-just-went-glasses-free.html

1080P HD just got a good beating ;)

While I'm not interested in the 3D aspect of this TV, I'm certainly interested in the increased resolution :)

morris_minor
18-03-2012, 21:44
7k :eek:

Reid Malenfant
18-03-2012, 21:47
7k :eek:
Yes, I know it aint cheap, but they'll soon come down in price :D Give it a year or two & I bet you'll see a 4K TV for 2K :)

sparrow
18-03-2012, 21:50
Might get two...one for the bedroom and one for the garden..

Dominic Harper
18-03-2012, 21:52
I was jut about to say its around 7000. But remember when the first HDs came out they were around 4000.00. We will just have to be patient until they come down in price or win the lottery, whichever comes first:lol:. Anyway, Mark have you had a listen to VCMG? very trance and techno. It's by Vince Clarke and Martin Gore. Sorry to go a little off topic.

Natalie;)

Reid Malenfant
18-03-2012, 21:57
Anyway, Mark have you had a listen to VCMG? very trance and techno. It's by Vince Clarke and Martin Gore. Sorry to go a little off topic.

Natalie;)
Pretty sure I have an album by the pair of them called Spectrum Pursuit Vehicle (http://www.discogs.com/Vincent-Clarke-Martyn-Ware-Spectrum-Pursuit-Vehicle/master/263208) :)

Yes, like you say the first HD TVs were loadsa money, also only 720P... Then 1080P came along & again loadsa money... Now the very same are 1/10 the price they started out at, with far superior pictures & features :D

Give it time...

chelsea
18-03-2012, 21:59
I hope to never own a 3d tv.
Think they would get on my tits.

chris@panteg
18-03-2012, 22:45
7k :eek:

Don't worry Tesco will be putting it up for 49.99 very soon , just keep an eye on HUKD :D

Reid Malenfant
19-03-2012, 21:59
I hope to never own a 3d tv.
Think they would get on my tits.
Actually the latest 3D TVs have much better screens & processing, now while I don't want a 3D TV either you don't have to use that option. If you aren't spinning a 3D blu ray (& even if you are come to think of it) you can still watch it in 2D & get all the advantages of using more modern technology but without the 3D gimmick.

chelsea
19-03-2012, 22:08
Saw one at bristol with the obvious avatar on and it was very impressive.
Just don't think i'd want to watch it hours on end.

There was a really nice telly running in one of the rooms with a bruce sprinsteen concert on,wish i had taken the make of it.

MartinT
19-03-2012, 22:13
Now all we need is the matching broadcast service, and without the massive compression that has wrecked BBC HD, for instance.

Reid Malenfant
19-03-2012, 22:15
If you read the blurb a bit deeper you'll find it only does the 3D stuff (without the glasses) at 720P, but it can do it for about 7 different positions in room. Apparently it has facial recognition & adjusts the picture to make sure you get as good a 3D image as possible for a good few people :eyebrows:

As I say, I'm not interested in 3D presentations. You can get a pretty good reproduction of depth as long as you feed a good signal to a decent 2D TV imho. Cut the gimmicks & let us at that 4K image is what I say, I reckon 3D will be dead in the not too distant future :D

Reid Malenfant
19-03-2012, 22:18
Now all we need is the matching broadcast service, and without the massive compression that has wrecked BBC HD, for instance.
:lol: Bad enough with standard Freeview, let alone HD - I dread to think, but I haven't watched TV for over two years :) Today I got in touch with TV licensing & confirmed that no license is needed here for another two years...


Send your inspectors round if you want :cool:

MartinT
19-03-2012, 22:35
You can get a pretty good reproduction of depth as long as you feed a good signal to a decent 2D TV imho.

That's it exactly, Mark. 3D is just a gimmick whereas true hi-res 2D is superb. Witness digital projection at some of the cinema complexes (like the Reading Showcase) where the picture looks stunning and makes you feel almost giddy with detail.

Dominic Harper
19-03-2012, 22:36
Hi Martin, you really are p**sed at the F1 saga with sky and bbc. I can understand why. Like I said, next sky will be demanding the rights to the Tour de France. Imagine F1 in 3D:eyebrows:

Natalie;)

Reid Malenfant
19-03-2012, 22:44
That's it exactly, Mark. 3D is just a gimmick whereas true hi-res 2D is superb. Witness digital projection at some of the cinema complexes (like the Reading Showcase) where the picture looks stunning and makes you feel almost giddy with detail.
Hehehe, don't worry as I know Martin :)

HD is a funny thing, you can view it on a say 42" TV like I used to & everything is pin point sharp, but if you explode that up to 120" like I can with my projector, all of a sudden you see even more detail - even though it isn't quite as clear or sharp as on the smaller screen :scratch:

Yet you can see things you didn't on the smaller one in more detail :scratch: Only thing I can think is they were a little too small to really make out on a smaller screen, but on a bigger one what was a tad difficult to make out becomes more obvious.

4K with a suitable source will be frankly incredible imho :D

MartinT
19-03-2012, 22:45
Actually Natalie, to be fair to Sky for a moment, their HD picture on the F1 channel is pretty good as they obviously use less compression than the BBC. I can't really fault their first F1 effort last Sunday, the red button facilities and Sky Sports app on the iPad were very good. However, I don't want them getting their mitts on Wimbledon, for instance. That would be a disaster.

The problem with most HD broadcasts is that it doesn't offer the sheer resolution that was promised in early test transmissions because they're more concerned with squeezing ever more channels of crap into the available satellite bandwidth.

Reid Malenfant
19-03-2012, 22:48
The problem with most HD broadcasts is that it doesn't offer the sheer resolution that was promised in early test transmissions because they're more concerned with squeezing ever more channels of crap into the available satellite bandwidth.
Do I hear DAB anyone :rolleyes: :eyebrows:

Same crap... Lets give them bad bandwidth but loadsa channels :doh:

Dominic Harper
19-03-2012, 23:06
I've never really got the HD thing, although our tv is 1080p, but I wouldn't mind trying one of those 4D tellys, I just cannot justify paying 7000.00 for a bloody tv. Like I said we will just have to be patient, unless some people on here have a spare 7000.00 that they can spend on a 4D tv. I mean, you can buy a small car for 7000.00:scratch:

I was also impressed with the F1 on sky, especially hearing Mr Brundell he was superb, and of course our Jenson;).

Natalie;)

Dominic Harper
19-03-2012, 23:15
One of the things that does get to me with the sky channels, is the channels that have things like How to paint? or south African soaps. What's all that about. I actually started watching this South African soap and got in to it, I scared myself for a second. And then you have all the plus one channels as well as ITV 1,2,3 and 4 or BCC 1,2,3 and 4. I mean how many times do you have to watch things like Cracker or Wire in the blood. Don't get me wrong, they were good programmes. Saying that, if you had a 4K tv and bloody Fitz from Cracker came out of you screen, you bloody crap youself:lol::lol:

Natalie;)

Reid Malenfant
19-03-2012, 23:24
I've never really got the HD thing, although our tv is 1080p, but I wouldn't mind trying one of those 4D tellys, I just cannot justify paying 7000.00 for a bloody tv. Like I said we will just have to be patient, unless some people on here have a spare 7000.00 that they can spend on a 4D tv. I mean, you can buy a small car for 7000.00:scratch:

I was also impressed with the F1 on sky, especially hearing Mr Brundell he was superb, and of course our Jenson;).

Natalie;)
Natalie, it's 4K, well nearly :eyebrows: What it is is 3840 pixels in screen width, rather than the present 1920...

Now I'm probably the only bod on here that gets a bit near this as any letterbox film (2.20 - 2.40 etc) I watch on my TV I watch blown up to 2560 x 1080 as I have this funky Philips 21/9 TV. It does make a difference & I wouldn't want to go back to an unscaled picture on a 16/9 TV.

I don't care what anyone says about interpolation & scaling, it works on your PC screen & it works on this TV as well :eyebrows: Apart from the scaling you just need to turn off all the other bells & whistles, sit back & be blown away :D

Dominic Harper
19-03-2012, 23:32
I know it's a 4K so why do I keep calling it a 4D:doh: It's all them bloody African Soaps :lol::lol::lol::lol:

Natalie;)

The Vinyl Adventure
19-03-2012, 23:38
I heard apple will be releasing a 4k tv at some point ... Now I bet that will be a sexy beasty ... Probably new mortgage territory mind

MartinT
20-03-2012, 06:34
I heard apple will be releasing a 4k tv at some point

No doubt some dorks will queue up all night to buy one :doh:

Mark Grant
20-03-2012, 09:27
Sony make a 4K projector, model number VPL-VW1000ES

http://www.sony.co.uk/biz/product/fpjhomecinema/vpl-vw1000es/overview

16,799.00 :)

http://www.techradar.com/news/home-cinema/projectors/in-pictures-sony-vpl-vw1000es-4k-projector-1031106

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=sony+1000es+projector&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a#q=sony+vpl-vw1000es+projector&hl=en&cr=countryUK|countryGB&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&tbs=ctr:countryUK|countryGB&prmd=imvns&source=lnms&tbm=shop&ei=4UtoT7GQJYmb1AWhl9H8CA&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd=6&ved=0CF8Q_AUoBQ&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=70885601f671a668&biw=1410&bih=1039

It would be good for keen photographers if it can accept 4096x2160 native resolution from a PC etc for a very high definition slide show:)

chris@panteg
20-03-2012, 10:15
Now all we need is the matching broadcast service, and without the massive compression that has wrecked BBC HD, for instance.

Is it true that the Beeb has dropped the bit rate to almost the same level as SD or DVD , about 8-10 meg ? Blu ray being 25-30 meg .

MartinT
20-03-2012, 10:42
I don't know the exact figure, Chris, but I certainly sense that the picture quality is nowhere near as good as it used to be. The BBC installed new compressors and claimed that the PQ was unaffected but the reality gives the lie to that.

chris@panteg
20-03-2012, 10:51
I don't know the exact figure, Chris, but I certainly sense that the picture quality is nowhere near as good as it used to be. The BBC installed new compressors and claimed that the PQ was unaffected but the reality gives the lie to that.

Yes I have noticed its not as good as back in in 2007 when I got my Pace HD , I read an article somewhere they had dropped the bit rate from around a peak of 17 meg to 7 meg and then upped it to 9-10 after a huge number of complaints :doh: Still I can't see the point in broadcasting HD at this level when its not much better than bog standard def ? No wonder some of the guys at work were struggling to see the differences when they got there shiny new HDTV's , I think its marginally better from Satellite though .

MartinT
20-03-2012, 10:54
Yes, Sky HD is a little better. The new F1 channel shows off HD at its best at the moment.

Dominic Harper
20-03-2012, 13:41
And the mardy arses of F1, did you see Louis Hamilton, he couldn't even crack a smile, but you could see all the make up cracking on his face:lol:, I'm tellin ya, that boy wear's foundation:lol::lol: and good HD tvs will show it.

Natalie;)

MartinT
20-03-2012, 14:48
You're cruel, Natalie :lol:

lovejoy
20-03-2012, 15:44
4K is nothing but the numbers game all over again. If you go to a cinema that uses a digital projection system (currently running at around 60-70% of screens in the UK), with the exception of a couple of Sony installations (which are 4K, when they can get them to work, but they don't focus well and don't work on large screens - oh and there's VERY little content at the moment), all content is 2K. So you scale that huge, pin sharp picture down to your 42" TV at home and the idea of 4K becomes pretty silly pretty quickly. The only situation I can really envisage 4K becoming noticeably better are with the IMAX cinemas which have gone from using wonderful 70mm film to using 2K digital cinema. Given the size and the audiences' proximity to the screen, 4K will be mind blowing here, but for everything else it will be overkill.

What I'd be more interested to see for home TVs is increased colour depth and accuracy. LCD/LED only gives us 10-bit colour at the moment, meaning that the stuff that comes out of the cinema which has been graded in P3 colour space (i.e. all films) has to get down-converted from 12 to 10 bit colour, which really is noticeable.

Meanwhile, the future of cinema is with higher frame rates. The Hobbit, coming at the end of 2012 is being filmed in 48fps. Avatar 2 and 3 (spare me) is being filmed in 60fps. Once you've seen cinema running at these frame rates, the old 24fps becomes rather irritating and given the choice of more resolution or more frames, I know which one I'd go for every time.

lovejoy
20-03-2012, 16:03
That's it exactly, Mark. 3D is just a gimmick whereas true hi-res 2D is superb. Witness digital projection at some of the cinema complexes (like the Reading Showcase) where the picture looks stunning and makes you feel almost giddy with detail.

Ah, is that the Showcase at Winnersh Triangle? Haven't been there for a few years now, but I used to love that place. Everything was always really well presented (for a chain cinema) and the sound was excellent in there too. Hope it's still as good as I remember it. Will have to try and pay another visit.

MartinT
20-03-2012, 17:32
Ah, is that the Showcase at Winnersh Triangle?

That's the one, Rich. They've converted all the screens to digital projection. I go there rather than locally in Basingstoke just for the PQ. It's superb.

Reid Malenfant
02-04-2012, 19:51
4K is nothing but the numbers game all over again. If you go to a cinema that uses a digital projection system (currently running at around 60-70% of screens in the UK), with the exception of a couple of Sony installations (which are 4K, when they can get them to work, but they don't focus well and don't work on large screens - oh and there's VERY little content at the moment), all content is 2K. So you scale that huge, pin sharp picture down to your 42" TV at home and the idea of 4K becomes pretty silly pretty quickly. The only situation I can really envisage 4K becoming noticeably better are with the IMAX cinemas which have gone from using wonderful 70mm film to using 2K digital cinema. Given the size and the audiences' proximity to the screen, 4K will be mind blowing here, but for everything else it will be overkill.

What I'd be more interested to see for home TVs is increased colour depth and accuracy. LCD/LED only gives us 10-bit colour at the moment, meaning that the stuff that comes out of the cinema which has been graded in P3 colour space (i.e. all films) has to get down-converted from 12 to 10 bit colour, which really is noticeable.

Meanwhile, the future of cinema is with higher frame rates. The Hobbit, coming at the end of 2012 is being filmed in 48fps. Avatar 2 and 3 (spare me) is being filmed in 60fps. Once you've seen cinema running at these frame rates, the old 24fps becomes rather irritating and given the choice of more resolution or more frames, I know which one I'd go for every time.
Yes I do tend to agree with you on certain points. I'd definately prefer an increased frame rate like yourself.

However I run a bit of a weird TV, Philips 56pfl9954 which scales 2.35:1 images to 2560 x 1080, rather than having black lines top & bottom. It works to, as long as all the bells & whistles are turned off so that the TV only scales up to the new pixels it's superb. Ask it to do the 200Hz & perfect pixel etc & it'll make a mess of things, but shut them down & the upscaling brings noticeably worthwhile benefits to picture clarity.

So I'll wait for this beast (http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=sony+VPL-VW1000ES&oq=sony+VPL-VW1000ES+price&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_l=serp.2...0l0l0l3087730l0l0l0l0l0l0l0l0ll0l0.f rgbld.&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=2c322469f73c1a13&biw=1159&bih=640) to come down to about 10K or less & then I'll pounce :)

lovejoy
04-04-2012, 11:23
So I'll wait for this beast (http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=sony+VPL-VW1000ES&oq=sony+VPL-VW1000ES+price&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_l=serp.2...0l0l0l3087730l0l0l0l0l0l0l0l0ll0l0.f rgbld.&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=2c322469f73c1a13&biw=1159&bih=640) to come down to about 10K or less & then I'll pounce :)

That review sounds quite impressive, but it turns out it's using an SXRD panel, which is what Sony use in their cinema projectors. Considering this is bound to be a scaled down version of it, I think I'd wait for something decent to be released. I've yet to see (or even hear of anyone who's seen) a decent picture from one of their cinema projectors when compared with a good DLP cinema projector. It'll only be a matter of time before domestic 4K DLP arrives.