View Full Version : AOS show discussion thread
Reid Malenfant
11-03-2012, 20:17
Prompted by Marco on a CaC thread it was suggested that a new thread should be started on what may well be the AoS show in a similar vein to the Hifi Wigwam show...
As I'm kind of keen on the idea I thought I'd get the ball rolling so to speak :)
Mike brought up what must be one of the first questions, where it should be held. I'd suggest a when might be as equally important...
Over to the floor for discussion :cool:
Jac Hawk
11-03-2012, 20:18
Well should we? and if so where, when etc?
Over to you guys:)
Reid Malenfant
11-03-2012, 20:21
I have already started one, maybe a mod with permissions can merge the two :lol:
Jac Hawk
11-03-2012, 20:23
Think we must have started the threads at the same time mate
Jac Hawk
11-03-2012, 20:25
When? later on in the year October time maybe, enough time to let that Scalford show settle and have folks thirsty for more:eyebrows:
Think we must have started the threads at the same time mate
Threads now merged :)
Marco.
Jac Hawk
11-03-2012, 20:29
I'd say the big problem is where, if it's too far south the folks from up north and bonnie Scotland may feel a little left out and vice versa
kininigin
11-03-2012, 20:29
When? later on in the year October time maybe, enough time to let that Scalford show settle and have folks thirsty for more:eyebrows:
Marco has said that it won't be till next year as i understand it,unless it has changed?
Edit_You mean next year,my bad.
I think before you start to look at venues, you need to think what kind and how big a venue you might want; and that depends on how many may exhibit.
Also, I think you need to determine if it is going to be amateur only (as the Wam show is supposed to be), or if trade will also be able to be present and, if so, to what extent?
-------------
No matter where you choose one thing is certain - there will be people telling you you've chosen the wrong place
Jac Hawk
11-03-2012, 20:31
thing is if it's next year it'll need to be a fair bit after Scalford and not in holiday times, so around October which ever way you cut it.
Jac Hawk
11-03-2012, 20:33
i think a mix of trade and public which would make it different enough from everything else
Strangely enough, that's what the mod team and I had thought! :)
Marco.
Reid Malenfant
11-03-2012, 20:40
I'd also suggest later on in the year (next year) as the venue will be cheaper as it'd be out of season :)
Someone needs to get a map of the UK out & do a bit of measuring imho. I reckon somewhere in between the middle of Somerset & southern Scotland would pull in the most punters :cool: That cuts out the extremes & kind of centres things :scratch:
Jac Hawk
11-03-2012, 20:42
Strangely enough, that's what the mod team and I had thought! :)
Marco.
And by having Trade exhibitors this should help to ease the financial burden:)
Jac Hawk
11-03-2012, 20:45
I'd also suggest later on in the year (next year) as the venue will be cheaper as it'd be out of season :)
Someone needs to get a map of the UK out & do a bit of measuring imho. I reckon somewhere in between the middle of Somerset & southern Scotland would pull in the most punters :cool: That cuts out the extremes & kind of centres things :scratch:
And near to one of the 3 major roads A1, M1 or M6, Sheffield or Darby perhaps:scratch:
kininigin
11-03-2012, 20:54
Im fairly relaxed on location personally,as long as it is after july before december,im cool.
trade is good for a bit of revenue and AOS could have their own stand for bits and pieces for sale , my engine club has organised a bring and buy sale where people can both exhibit thier engines and also sell a bit of clutter as well
and we advertise it in a magazine
Reid Malenfant
11-03-2012, 21:02
And near to one of the 3 major roads A1, M1 or M6, Sheffield or Darby perhaps:scratch:
Aye, maybe, it probably wouldn't work out too far north of Scalford when it boils down to it...
trade is good for a bit of revenue and AOS could have their own stand for bits and pieces for sale , my engine club has organised a bring and buy sale where people can both exhibit thier engines and also sell a bit of clutter as well
and we advertise it in a magazine
I like this idea though it's naff all to do with me... Any AoS member that wants to shift some kit could advertise at a certain price & maybe have a minimum price for the kit & a certain percentage of the sale price goes to supporting the price of hiring the venue itself? Just an idea :)
Huddersfield is nice and central and easy to reach from the M1 and M62 and M6. I would be glad to organize somewhere to hold it. 30 rooms should be enough would you say? Suggest October or early November after Whittlebury. Me and MG with a stand next to each other would be cool...:lol:
Anyway just my 2 penneth worth as we say in Yorkshire.
Reid Malenfant
11-03-2012, 21:09
Huddersfield is nice and central and easy to reach from the M1 and M62 and M6.
:lol: Sorry, you just reminded me of a song by The Exploited :) Sex & Violence... Well it starts of with the vocals "lets all go to Huddersfield" :cool:
But yes, wherever it may be I'll be cadging a lift off of someone :D
Jac Hawk
11-03-2012, 21:10
Huddersfield is nice and central and easy to reach from the M1 and M62 and M6. I would be glad to organize somewhere to hold it. 30 rooms should be enough would you say? Suggest October or early November after Whittlebury. Me and MG with a stand next to each other would be cool...:lol:
Anyway just my 2 penneth worth as we say in Yorkshire.
Huddersfield, nice though it is Dave, may be a bit of a trek for guys in Devon say, as Mark said Scalford is kinda the area we need to be lookin at, but maybe not quite as off the beaten track, so you're lookin at Nottingham, Darby, Grantham area or south Yorkshire at a push.
The Grand Wazoo
11-03-2012, 21:15
Just a thought, how about alternating venues - a south(ish) bias one year and north(ish) the next?
But transport links are vital.
Wakefield Turntables
11-03-2012, 21:19
I would love to go to Scalford but I dont drive! Big problem! So, it will have to be in a place where public transport can be used, EASILY! My thoughts are very simple! Why not rent a hotel/hall/venue near a main railway station? Exhibitors will be travelling in cars to transport there wares, whilst those of us that dont like the stress of driving, or maybe would like a few beers could easily get a train and then bugger off again. It would also be cheaper than petrol and wear and tear on your cars!
Reid Malenfant
11-03-2012, 21:24
Just a thought, how about alternating venues - a south(ish) bias one year and north(ish) the next?
But transport links are vital.
I'm sure that could be done, good suggestion actually :)
The difficulty is in getting the interest in the first show as I see it, once that is overcome then the problem is solved. I'd still like to see everyone (though I know that's impossible :eyebrows:) meet up somewhere central though, otherwise there would be a north/south divide & I'm sure we keep hearing about this elsewhere... No point in creating another to reinforce this, but I may well be wrong!
It's about bringing the whole lot of us, or as many as can make it together imho at the first show...
Blimey this was quick! I go away and eat, watch Top gear, come back and there is already a show thread into 3 pages. Good to see, enthusiasm can carry a lot of things through as it is a big task.
Re - type of show - I'd like to see a free form show, exhibitors and trade, trade will pay for the costs on their own if you get enough of them. As few rules as it is possible to get away with.
Venue - something with a lot of ground floor solidly built rooms and enough large rooms to accomadate the bigger set ups.
Location - the idea of doing a Northern then a Southern show is a good one, but for me I would suggest the Midlands, somewhere with good Motorway and A road access, mainline rail staion 1 hr 20 mins from Euston, cheap beer, Stoke on Trent anyone? ;)
Jac Hawk
11-03-2012, 21:31
Stoke, Nottingham, Darby or Sheffield would be the areas I would look at
Reid Malenfant
11-03-2012, 21:33
I think whatever it has to be somewhere with both good rail & road connections, like others here I can't/don't drive, so if I bring anything to the show I'll need a lift.
Others that just want to visit need as many possibilities of getting there as possible...
Maybe look for somewhere that has good road & rail connections as well as an airport nearby that is central :)
a hall would not be ideal as you are restricting yourself to a one day event and issues arrising from a whole loads of systems in one room all trying to compete so you are back to Hotels that are very amenable
Reid Malenfant
11-03-2012, 21:48
a hall would not be ideal as you are restricting yourself to a one day event and issues arrising from a whole loads of systems in one room all trying to compete so you are back to Hotels that are very amenable
& something that isn't modern :eyebrows: A bit of isolation between rooms would be good sound wise :D
Wakefield Turntables
11-03-2012, 21:48
The idea of a North/south show to me sounds naff, why have several locations?? Surely it would be better to establish the thing 1st rather than going up north one year and then down south one year. Why not pick one location, carefully selected and still to it?? With regards to Stoke-on-Trent I can vouch for this place as its very cheap and easy to get to. I spent three years doing an MSc there!
Andy
northwest
11-03-2012, 22:10
And if you are all smart, rent part of the Uni from Stoke for the weekend. I am involved in a couple o hobbies and this is the way forward. All of the vUni capus managers are keen to rent them out and make money outside termtime. If you want to stay in London cheeply out of term time the Uni of Westminster rents out (very nice) student rooms, complete with en-suite for thirty quid a night. You cant beat it.
Reid Malenfant
11-03-2012, 22:19
Ok, last post this evening :)
AoS members, all of you! Do not be afraid of posting your thoughts on this thread! The admin positively want your opinions as I'm sure if this goes ahead that they want it to work.
Please disregard me being a moderator as we are not all created equal :eyebrows: I just mod the AV room (along with Mike) & can't influence a damn thing elsewhere so in a lot of respects your opinions are just as valid as mine!
You have a voice or at least a keyboard, so use it...
All input is valid... Get to it, make of it what you will, it's you lot that make AoS what it is at the end of the day :)
You have the chance to shape something, maybe make it what it will or could be, so get to it :)
flatpopely
11-03-2012, 22:26
If I may offer my advice?
Don't clone the Wam show.
Concentrate on what the AoS is about.
Positively promote you love the Technics SL decks, it's a hugely popular deck.
Promote your love of vinyl.
Try not to get TOO much trade involved.
Just my thoughts.
kininigin
11-03-2012, 22:42
If I may offer my advice?
Don't clone the Wam show.
Concentrate on what the AoS is about.
Positively promote you love the Technics SL decks, it's a hugely popular deck.
Promote your love of vinyl.
Try not to get TOO much trade involved.
Just my thoughts.
Totally agree with you on that score.
What i would like to see,is music specific rooms.Not sure if this would work well in practice though!
My thinking on this,is rather than wandering around,popping in a room for a second then quickly running out,you would hang around longer and listen to music you actually like.As long as there is enough variation for everyone.Maybe a few eclectic rooms as well?
Jac Hawk
11-03-2012, 23:00
Problem with making it focused like that Andrew is that the folks who don't share your love of a particular piece of kit may not want to come, in my view there's no shame in pinching some of the good bit's of the Scalford show i.e. the amateur side of it, but then have a moderate trade presence to help with the cost of the venue and advertising.
I think the main problem with the WAM show is the location, too difficult to get to without a car, a hotel which is poorly equipped for people lugging, in some cases incredibly heavy gear up and down stairs, poor security, almost no help from staff with moving furniture to make way for kit and finally almost no where else reasonably priced to stay for the night if you decide to come down the day before. These are some of the problems faced by the folks bothering to show off there gear. We need to make it easier for the folks who will at the end of the day make the show, the exhibitors and that means a very careful choice of location:scratch:
Jac Hawk
11-03-2012, 23:07
My thinking on this,is rather than wandering around,popping in a room for a second then quickly running out,you would hang around longer and listen to music you actually like.As long as there is enough variation for everyone.Maybe a few eclectic rooms as well?
In practice it just wouldn't work as each exhibitor will bring his or her own music, but there's nothing stopping you having a request board in each room or making each exhibitor publish a play list
kininigin
11-03-2012, 23:17
In practice it just wouldn't work as each exhibitor will bring his or her own music, but there's nothing stopping you having a request board in each room or making each exhibitor publish a play list
That's what i meant,have the exhibitor cover a specific genre.Request board and play list would be good.
Problem with making it focused like that Andrew is that the folks who don't share your love of a particular piece of kit may not want to come, in my view there's no shame in pinching some of the good bit's of the Scalford show i.e. the amateur side of it, but then have a moderate trade presence to help with the cost of the venue and advertising.
I think the main problem with the WAM show is the location, too difficult to get to without a car, a hotel which is poorly equipped for people lugging, in some cases incredibly heavy gear up and down stairs, poor security, almost no help from staff with moving furniture to make way for kit and finally almost no where else reasonably priced to stay for the night if you decide to come down the day before. These are some of the problems faced by the folks bothering to show off there gear. We need to make it easier for the folks who will at the end of the day make the show, the exhibitors and that means a very careful choice of location:scratch:
Spot on, Mike (although I know where Andrew is coming from)!
One thing I want to make abundantly clear is that our show will:
a) NOT clash with the Wam show.
b) NOT be a clone/copy of it.
AoS, as a forum, was started long after Wigwam (and pfm). We didn't copy what those forums were about or how they were run. We always wanted AoS to have its own individual identity, and one look at here and the other two main UK audio forums mentioned, now confirms that.
The show that we do, in that respect, will be no different. It will be very much what AoS is about and what our members enjoy most about participating here, with also a small nod to the trade.
Some ideas put forward so far are to have individual 'audio clinics'/workshops, featuring an element of D.I.Y, each in a different room, with a different theme.
For example, Stan in one room showing people how to modify their Beresford DACs, effectively extending current discussions on the forum into a practical real-life exercise. Paul Hynes could do the same with his power supplies, and also Nick Gorham.
We could have other rooms showing the benefits of optimal system set-up, discussing tweaks relating to that, and a cartridge comparison room, where members could hear various cartridges belonging to other members on their own turntables (an almost impossible task at a dealer's premises these days), and this could apply with tonearms, too.
We could also have a computer audio workshop, showing folks how to get the best sounds from music streaming, without having to spend too much dosh, or needing a degree in computer science, in the process! And of course, we could have a room devoted to showing the many different ways, at different price points, of upgrading a Technics SL-1200/1210.
There are so many possibilities, as this will NOT be a show simply to cart your system to a hotel for the day and 'show it off' to people. That will also happen, but it will be about genuinely learning things too, through practical demonstrations. The CAC thing will also feature heavily as a part of the show.
I also see this as a full 2-day event over a Saturday and Sunday, and not just a Sunday, like the Wam show is. I find that having just one day makes it simply too much of a rush to do things properly.
Ideally, folks exhibiting/demonstrating stuff would arrive on the Friday, as early as they can, set-up their kit, spending as much time as is necessary on this, then having a meal and few drinks and relaxing for the rest of the evening, and then be fit and ready to go for 10am on the Saturday morning, when the doors open to the public, and then on the Sunday after it.
That way it would be a much more relaxing (and less tiring) experience for everyone, and it would allow people the time that they need to see all the rooms that they're interested in properly. It's up to us now to find a suitable venue that would make the above affordable, practical and convenient. Oh, and one thing is definite, wherever it is, it'll have a bloody lift!! ;)
Ok, I'm off now to bed. That should give you guys something to chew on for a bit, but keep the ideas and suggestions coming! :cool:
Marco.
serendipitydawg
11-03-2012, 23:46
Isn't it a bit chicken and egg?
To book a venue and to get a deal from an hotel, sports & leisure centre, student campus an "organiser" would need to be able to give a realistic idea of attendance figures.
October has been mentioned. IMHO it's already too late to organise for October 2012 unless a fulltime organiser and funding is available.
Marco is the man who essentially "runs" AoS. I'd love to hear his views.
As someone who measures my hi fi expenditure in units of £100 I would be loath to spend say £200 on petrol and accomodation when I can get my AoS "kicks" online and for free in the comfort of my own home via the internet.
There has to be a purpose to all this.
How about a Founding Fifty? 50 AoS members each willing to pledge £100. £5K ought to get the ball rolling. Some sort of co-operative decision making process under Marco's supervision wouldn't go amiss either
Jac Hawk
11-03-2012, 23:48
Oh, and one thing is definite, wherever it is, it'll have a bloody lift!! http://theartofsound.net/forum/../images/smilies/wink.gif
Thank fcuk for that:D
Hi all, I'd love to be part of an AoS show having already hooked up with great people through this forum to trade stories and gear (Mike, I have that catridge for you, picked up an Ortofon OM5E for the deck, sounding great... been busy doing some vinyl rips! PM and I'll get it sent back to you.)
As a lazy sod I'd say +1 for a Northern show, there are a few places this could be done in the North East and we're pretty handy by train/road. Besides you've never lived until you've seen the toon on a saturday night!:eyebrows:
In terms of the flavour of the show I'm more interested in seeing peoples real world systems, diy projects and cheaply acquired gems than in trade stuff but I understand they can make a big contribution to the cost and success of such an event. For me such a show would feature the best of the SL decks, Beresford DACs, Mini T amps and shiny valve setups as well as the many approaches we all take to file based audio.
Basically count me in, if I can help I will.
Hi Matthew,
Just a quick one, before I hit the sack...
October has been mentioned. IMHO it's already too late to organise for October 2012 unless a fulltime organiser and funding is available.
That would be (possibly) October NEXT year :)
No way will any AoS event be taking place this year. In fact, there is no set timescale for this at all. I'd like a show to happen sometime next year, but what's most important is that things are done properly, rather than quickly.
I've always been of the mentality of 'do it right or not at all', so we definitely won't be rushing into anything until we're all as sure as possible that the event will be a success!
Other than that, your ideas are good and should be discussed further.
Laters,
Marco.
I think it's very difficult to do any form of complex/lengthy comparative type demonstration under show conditions. In my experience, people like to bob in and out.
flatpopely
12-03-2012, 07:48
I like the workshop idea. I'm still amazed how many threads are started about topics that on the face of it appear straightforward e.g. Recording from vinyl to computer. But every day is a school day and if you have not been shown you have to learn, perhaps the AoS show could facilitate this?
Thank fcuk for that:D
LOL! That was a bit of a trek up the stairs, wasn't it?
The workshops would be good, and I'd like the opportunity to meet people like Stanley Beresford. A good smattering of bedroom/big-room systems are a must.
It probably goes without saying that we must select a weekend that is out-of-season (e.g. not during half-term holidays).
By the time the show comes I should have some really special new SET amps built and would love to share a system-room with someone into their High Efficiency loudspeakers.
Andrew
Hi Mark,
I think it's very difficult to do any form of complex/lengthy comparative type demonstration under show conditions. In my experience, people like to bob in and out.
Sure... Those who want to bob in and out can do so, but I suspect that others will want to stay and participate, particularly if it's something that they have a vested interest in (such as, for example, being shown how to modify and improve their Beresford DAC, by the designer himself), and as a result they'll be leaving the show with better sounding kit!
I think that's likely to engage their interest enough to stay put and benefit from the experience ;)
Remember also that not all the rooms will be dedicated to 'audio clinics'/workshops, only some of them. The rest will be full of folks demonstrating their systems, just like at Scalford, so you can choose where you want to go :)
Marco.
Hi Andrew,
I like the workshop idea. I'm still amazed how many threads are started about topics that on the face of it appear straightforward e.g. Recording from vinyl to computer.
Lol - it might be staightforward to you, but I still haven't fully grasped the concept!
With me though, it's simply a case of 'practice makes perfect' (it's the only way I learn with these things), and I just haven't done enough practising yet!
That's about to change, though...
But every day is a school day and if you have not been shown you have to learn, perhaps the AoS show could facilitate this?
That's definitely one of the things we'll be trying to do :)
Marco.
clive7164
12-03-2012, 09:54
I for one am for the workshop idea,I have a squeezebox touch and saw software mods could be done to it. I have no idea how to do these,I read the instructions and they may as well been in Chinese,but if someone was to show me how its done it may just sink in. I don't think im the only one that's
a computer novice.
Clive
Hi Andrew,
The workshops would be good, and I'd like the opportunity to meet people like Stanley Beresford. A good smattering of bedroom/big-room systems are a must.
We'd like to get a few folks from the industry there; those whose products are widely used by members, and also selected dealers, demonstrating products of particular interest to our members, such as Chris, from Amptastic, with his mini T-amps, and Mark Grant and David Brook, with their cables and various other products of interest.
Dominic Harper (Northwest Analogue) will also be another, where he could show people how retipping a cartridge is done and offer show discounts to folks wanting their cartridges re-tipped/fettled - now that one would be most interesting! :)
It probably goes without saying that we must select a weekend that is out-of-season (e.g. not during half-term holidays).
Absolutely. I think October's looking good, where we could capitalise on the 'pre-Christmas vibe', with manufacturers and dealers offering some of their products as 'Chistmas Specials' (reduced prices) to our members.
The other thing we've been looking at is having a live band playing music, and members of the hi-fi press doing talks about specific subjects of audio.
By the time the show comes I should have some really special new SET amps built and would love to share a system-room with someone into their High Efficiency loudspeakers.
Sounds excellent, mate. You should pick Anthony's brains, as I'm sure he'll give you some good ideas for your amp design.
As for speakers, I may even be tempted to bring my Lockwoods (with 95db 15" Tannoy MGs), and allow various people (in ground floor rooms), taking turns each, to use them in their systems, with appropriate amps ;)
Marco.
Rare Bird
12-03-2012, 10:05
As a few have already mentioned easy public transport links are very important, with it generally being Sunday remember small towns could be problematic with sparce but expensive services where on the other hand somewhere pretty major give a good service on a Sunday...
Be great to see used equipment for sale & especially someting like a lot of second hand records..Im not too fussy about heavy Trade appearing but if they are small fry i don't see why not.. Just try make it a little different to the Pie Show but on simular lines obviously..
Another thing we need is good food at good prices, we don't need a bank loan for a cuppa tea & a sandwich.
However back to the venue location, it has to be in the centre of the country to be fair to the none english & daft talking lot down the bottom end. :lol:
Be great to see used equipment for sale & especially someting like a lot of second hand records..Im not too fussy about heavy Trade appearing but if they are small fry i don't see why not.. Just try make it a little different to the Pie Show but on simular lines obviously..
Both new and second-hand record sales will be a definite, dude, as those always prove to be popular.
Also, it's most likely that the only 'hardware' trade people who'll be there (certainly in the first year) will be the smaller, specialist dealers and companies, selling products of specific interest to AoS members, as that's what will best suit the needs of the show :)
Marco.
Living as I do in the back of beyond in Cornwall, as time passes the sheer cost of fuel means I have to think long and hard about the expenditure towards travel, given that "civilisation" doesn't start until I have reached Bristol and by then a good £50+ has already been poured into the chancellor's coffers.
Distance and time also means I don't relish the idea of travelling 10 hours plus for a one day event and that was to Scalford which I believe was chosen for it's central geographic location. Anything further north of Birmingham therefore for me is not a viable proposition, especially so for a one day event. I also realise that there are other folks in the extreme north of the country who also share my concerns, so I don't wish to appear to be a whinger.
I do like the idea of holding workshops and showcasing how DIY and mods can turn an ordinary system into a rather special sounding system and dare I say it, a demonstration about the effects of cabling.
Hi Frank,
You can take the latter as a given... David Brook (and Mark Grant) will be working for their sales for a change (not that Mark, as far as I know, has ever sold his cables at a show before), as they'll be asked to demonstrate to members the effectiveness of their products in a chosen system, against cables (mains blocks, etc) people will be bringing with them to compare against.
The theme will be along the lines of: 'Bring yer fancy-pants Nordost (or whatever) interconnects and we'll show you that our cables are as good or better, for a fraction of the price'. Or as David sells more 'high-end' stuff than Mark, he'll be asked to demonstrate that, say, some 'fancy-pants' Furutech interconnects, at so many hundreds of pounds, are worth the price difference over a pair of G1000 or 2000HDs, etc. That should be fun!
There'll be no sitting on backsides at a stall, simply shifting product and taking money off of people. They'll have to work for their sales! :eyebrows: ;)
That process will actually be more beneficial to them in the long run, as good products (successfully demonstrated) increase their credibility and thus are more likely to sell better in future, and their businesses will benefit subsequently (and grow more) in line with that... Effectively, short-term pain for long-term gain! :cool:
Marco.
sq225917
12-03-2012, 12:44
What was the old Chesterfield Show venue like? That's pretty central and no more than a mile or two off the M1...
Ali Tait
12-03-2012, 13:02
I think Marco's ideas for this are good, much like the Owston do's but with a trade presence and workshops etc. I think that could work really well. A two day event is a must IMHO, it gives more time to see/hear everything, and also for the social side of it, as I find that one of the most enjoyable aspects of Owston, the chance to eat, drink and talk crap about audio into the wee hours!
Such an event will cost to put on obviously, so perhaps it might be an idea to have all those who wish to attend pay an agreed amount up front to help with the initial costs. If this becomes an annual event, numbers will no doubt grow so just collecting an entry fee will become viable, but I think for the first show it would be better to have some money up front to get the ball rolling.
This works well for the Owston do's, though we just contribute each day depending on how many turn up, usually between 20 and 30 or so, so we know the cost of room hire is always met.
An AOS show would be on a bigger scale though, so I'd suggest asking for some money up front would be the way to go. I'm sure most of the regulars here would have no objection to that.
A two day show is asking for a lot of commitment.
There are a couple of issues with venues that are close to train stations (which is why they often aren't), 1/ they cost more as venues, 2/ parking is often expensive (and sometimes limited).
What was the old Chesterfield Show venue like? That's pretty central and no more than a mile or two off the M1...
It was good from what I can remember - not unlike the Scalford thing in terms of rooms and hotel (but pretty much all small manufacturers).
Ali Tait
12-03-2012, 13:10
Well we've been doing that for years at Owston, and it works well. I appreciate that is on a smaller scale, but I don't see it as a major problem, folk can come for one or both days as they please and pay accordingly.
Rare Bird
12-03-2012, 13:18
There are a couple of issues with venues that are close to train stations (which is why they often aren't), 1/ they cost more as venues, 2/ parking is often expensive (and sometimes limited).
Mark:
I dunno why you keep getting the wrong idea!! we dont want them close to train Stations, i don't mind commuting from the station as long as it's not a small location area because the transport is sparce, this is the problem with the pie show for me.
I did outline this in my last post..
I think an idea would to be looking at areas that are stop off on major train routes which will guarentee transport users to get ourselves a good easy/regular service & most importantly to be able to get a train early in the morning, again something i couldnt do with the Pie show..
A University/College campus sounds like a good idea - out of term time there will be acres of parking plus a good selection of rooms with solid walls and floors. They tend to be well served by public transport too.
Mark makes a good point about venues near train stations. I think it's simply a case of looking around and seeing what's available. Certainly the venue would need to have a large car park, as most people will be coming by car.
It's not unfeasible for the venue to be near-ish a main train station, and then simply a short trip in a taxi from there to the hotel. I'm not expecting the venue to be in a city-centre location and right next to a train station. Also, we could arrange a coach service, from a local company, to ferry people from the train station to the venue.
The need for this would have to be assessed in advance, and if there were enough people who were going to use this service, the cost for such would require being paid upfront. Returning to the subject of venues, I think that this idea proposed earlier needs some further investigation:
And if you are all smart, rent part of the Uni from Stoke for the weekend. I am involved in a couple o hobbies and this is the way forward. All of the vUni capus managers are keen to rent them out and make money outside termtime. If you want to stay in London cheeply out of term time the Uni of Westminster rents out (very nice) student rooms, complete with en-suite for thirty quid a night. You cant beat it.
It's highly likely that one of these Unis is in a suitable location, in terms of what's being discussed above. Certainly geographically, Stoke would fit the bill, in terms of roughly where the event is likely to be held.
The show doesn't necessarily need to happen at a hotel.
Marco.
I can make enquiries locally if you like, give us an idea of availability and price? There are two Universities in the area - Staffordshire and Keele, the Staffs campus is right by the rail station, Keele is about 3 miles away out of town but a very beautiful location.
Rare Bird
12-03-2012, 13:34
Marco:
Stoke-On-Trent is a good location at least for us, around an hour n half on the Choo Choo, pretty good ticket fairs aswell..
Martin:
Derby is easier for people than Stafford
Mark:
I dunno why you keep getting the wrong idea!! we dont want them close to train Stations, i don't mind commuting from the station as long as it's not a small location area because the transport is sparce, this is the problem with the pie show for me.
I did outline this in my last post..
I think an idea would to be looking at areas that are stop off on major train routes which will guarentee transport users to get ourselves a good easy/regular service & most importantly to be able to get a train early in the morning, again something i couldnt do with the Pie show..
Indeed :)
What do you think of the ideas I've proposed, in that respect, dude?
Marco.
I can make enquiries locally if you like, give us an idea of availability and price? There are two Universities in the area - Staffordshire and Keele, the Staffs campus is right by the rail station, Keele is about 3 miles away out of town but a very beautiful location.
Sounds good, Martin - please do and report back :)
Marco.
I think you first need to find out how many people will commit to showing there gear off and then work from there in terms of finding a venue.
Re the uni your going to be looking at either june,july,august mid october or just before xmas.
Good luck and hope it goes ahead.
Sounds good, Martin - please do and report back :)
Marco.
Will do
Hi Ali,
I think Marco's ideas for this are good, much like the Owston do's but with a trade presence and workshops etc. I think that could work really well. A two day event is a must IMHO, it gives more time to see/hear everything, and also for the social side of it, as I find that one of the most enjoyable aspects of Owston, the chance to eat, drink and talk crap about audio into the wee hours!
Such an event will cost to put on obviously, so perhaps it might be an idea to have all those who wish to attend pay an agreed amount up front to help with the initial costs. If this becomes an annual event, numbers will no doubt grow so just collecting an entry fee will become viable, but I think for the first show it would be better to have some money up front to get the ball rolling.
This works well for the Owston do's, though we just contribute each day depending on how many turn up, usually between 20 and 30 or so, so we know the cost of room hire is always met.
An AOS show would be on a bigger scale though, so I'd suggest asking for some money up front would be the way to go. I'm sure most of the regulars here would have no objection to that.
Indeed, and we can look at that later, if there's enough interest in the show taking place. At this point, we're simply looking for people to tell us 'count me in!', in terms of showing a willingness to attend.
And yes, it will be a bit like the Owston fests, only as you say, on a bigger scale and with a small trade presence :)
Marco.
Rare Bird
12-03-2012, 13:44
Indeed :)
What do you think of the ideas I've proposed, in that respect, dude?
I dont think you would need a coach service tbh if it was in a good location
Hi Stu,
I think you first need to find out how many people will commit to showing there gear off and then work from there in terms of finding a venue.
Re the uni your going to be looking at either june,july,august mid october or just before xmas.
Good luck and hope it goes ahead.
Cheers, mate. Will you be coming? :)
I'm fairly certain that the event will be taking place in October, so we'll work towards it happening sometime in October 2013.
As for numbers attending, I can't see why most of the same people who'd go to the Wam show wouldn't come, for the same reasons as they'd go to that show. The AoS show could be a 'warm-up' for the (likely bigger) Wam one, the following March...
The interest in such events, in terms of the membership of the three main UK audio forums (pfm, Wigwam and AoS), has already been generated and therefore proven to exist. Between all three forums, there are around 45,000 members. The AoS show will therefore simply be an extension of the existing Wam show, but with a slightly different flavour, occurring at a different time of the year.
This will not be an AoS only event - ALL will be welcome! :cool:
Marco.
Rare Bird
12-03-2012, 13:47
I think the records & used hi-fi would be an attraction for people to attend, could even get hold of the record fair stall holders!
griffo104
12-03-2012, 13:49
sadly I've never been able to do the Scalford show as it's always on a weekend I have prior engagements.
For me it would be interesting to have the following :
1. As others have mentioned easy access venue
2. A nice cross between real peoples and also trade, in fact it would be nice if a trade member wanted to put a system forward to get together with a couple of forum members and put the system together and man the room together - give the trade a real insight in to what their potential buying customers want. for example one of the cable manufacturers providing a loom for a listeners system.
3. Advertise it. with the best will in the world, although it is different here, it doesn't get the traffic of Wigwam or a PFM so make sure the word gets out, local press and hifi press and on the internet.
4. Make use of the Album Club. Have a room dedicated to the albums played there, on CD, vinyl and computer audio. the history is on the site, hear them on a system put togther by a couple of members. Knock up some leaflets with it the details on and hand out at the show, allow people to hear stuff they may or may not be familiar with on a well put togther system with all the major front ends - allow people to compare from a known set of music.
5. Have it at a weekend I can get there :D
October is no good if we use a campus as the students are there all month - the end of September or half term mid November would work.
Ok, let's see what's available first, in that respect, before we go any further. Mid November would also be a go-er :)
Marco.
Hi Griffo,
Some good suggestions, mate, that we'll defo look into! :)
3. Advertise it. with the best will in the world, although it is different here, it doesn't get the traffic of Wigwam or a PFM so make sure the word gets out, local press and hifi press and on the internet.
It may seem that way on the surface, but you'd be surprised that there isn't the difference in it that you might expect ;)
When there's a subject of major interest being discussed, we get nearly as much activity on such threads as the other two do. All you have to do is look at the main audio sections of all three forums, when a particular 'hot topic' is being discussed, and observe the 'Replies' and 'Views' stats...
AoS is a busy site, with a lot of activity, for the size of our membership.
In any case, we'll most certainly be advertising the event. I will allocate some funds towards that and pop ads in the likes of HFW and HFN, as well as elsewhere. The hi-fi press will definitely be asked to cover the event, too.
Marco.
On the subject of publicity and advertising I don't really foresee a problem. Unless I'm very much mistaken AoS (Marco) has 'always' in the past posted details of other fora's activities such as this and I'm sure that would be reciprocated. Whether or not, many of us are members of other audio fora and could always posts threads there making their members aware of the details.
Indeed, Dave. That's a good point.
We have always advertised and encouraged people to attend the Wam show, as indeed Tony has done on pfm, therefore I'm sure that both pfm and Wigwam would reciprocate, in terms of advertising an AoS show :)
This is not about creating competition, but about working together and providing something of benefit to our collective memberships. Therefore, on that basis, we should be working together as a team :cool:
Marco.
The other thing we've been looking at is having a live band playing music, .
I'd happily volunteer my Band for this duty http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=15398&highlight=prism
Wow - that's brillant, Richard. Nice one! We'll definitely take you up on that :cool:
Marco.
As long we can cover our expenses (fuel etc..) then we're usually happy to play anywhere!
I don't see that being a problem, dude! :cool:
Marco.
Hi marco,
will try my best (funds allowing) to get there for at least one of the days.
Always good to try something new.
Will be a bit of a trek but i'am sure it will be worth it.
The Grand Wazoo
12-03-2012, 15:16
It's interesting that so many of the ideas that were discussed by mods & admin folks are being suggested in this thread - that's got to be a good thing!
Lodgesound
12-03-2012, 17:28
A room I would be interested in hosting would be an "Industry" room. My intention would be to showcase legacy and modern recording systems and monitoring with a particular focus on tape recorders.
Kind of a hybrid between a museum and a practical system.
What do you think Marco?
Sounds like a brilliant idea, Stewart, and one we will most definitely implement! What kind of kit would you be thinking of demonstrating? :)
Marco.
Jac Hawk
12-03-2012, 17:43
Mark:
I dunno why you keep getting the wrong idea!! we dont want them close to train Stations, i don't mind commuting from the station as long as it's not a small location area because the transport is sparce, this is the problem with the pie show for me.
I did outline this in my last post..
I think an idea would to be looking at areas that are stop off on major train routes which will guarentee transport users to get ourselves a good easy/regular service & most importantly to be able to get a train early in the morning, again something i couldnt do with the Pie show..
Grantham would be perfect then on the main N.E line but rural enough to me quite cheap regards venue and just off the A1 so easy to get there in a car too
Ali Tait
12-03-2012, 18:10
Not a bad idea. Keeping away from bigger towns and cities would keep costs down.
Ammonite Audio
12-03-2012, 18:21
I would suggest something along the lines of Richard Dunn's Bake-Off Show, which was held in a very nice hotel just off the north side of the M25 (see http://www.marriott.co.uk/hotels/travel/lonwa-waltham-abbey-marriott-hotel ). Although the costs weren't covered at the end of that event, it did go pretty well, and the self-contained business annex of the hotel was eminently suitable, with a central foyer big enough to hold some trade partners too, if that is deemed acceptable. The size of the business annex (14 meeting and event rooms) dictates a fairly small show, but maybe at the end of the year that's exactly what people want. Easy access from the northern M25 and plenty of free parking are bonuses.
I shared a room at Richard's show with Doc Foster of this and other forums and we did have fun. As I recall, Nick (Lurcher) was also there. I know that, with the weight of this forum behind such an event, it could be self-funding. Yes, it is South-biased, but if it flipped between the North and South each year, everyone should be happy.
Just my thoughts. I should be back by November (hopefully intact) and would be happy to play a part.
Lodgesound
12-03-2012, 18:22
Hi Marco;
Studer and Nagra machines coupled with BBC - Rogers LS 5/8 monitors along with current software-based recording systems & interfaces - would this be of interest?
Gosh, yes! :drool:
So let's bring it on.... :)
Marco.
Just my thoughts. I should be back by November (hopefully intact) and would be happy to play a part.
Damn right you will be, mate, so don't worry about that! Suggestion also noted.
Guys, wish Hugo all the best for his forthcoming trip on army duty to Afghanistan. Do what you gotta do there, matey, and come home soon safe and sound! :cool:
Marco.
Rare Bird
12-03-2012, 18:29
Not a bad idea. Keeping away from bigger towns and cities would keep costs down.
Would also limit Public transport on a Sunday aswell something id have thought we were trying to avoid! However Grantham is easy for folk.Doncaster:East Coast mainline
Guys, wish Hugo all the best for his forthcoming trip on army duty to Afghanistan. Do what you gotta do there, matey, and come home soon safe and sound! :cool:
Aye try & keep safe.
@Shuggie, .......
Aye try & keep safe.
And so say all of us. If you get the option, without breaking any rules, it would be nice to get the occassional post from the front line - might help you and your colleagues to feel a little less isolated and a little more appreciated.
Keep safe and take care,
Dave.
Ammonite Audio
12-03-2012, 19:03
And so say all of us. If you get the option, without breaking any rules, it would be nice to get the occassional post from the front line - might help you and your colleagues to feel a little less isolated and a little more appreciated.
Keep safe and take care,
Dave.
Don't worry - the internet is out there, so I will continue to contribute to AoS, except when in the middle of nowhere.
Keep safe and take care,
Dave.
+1
Reid Malenfant
12-03-2012, 20:10
Nice to meet you at Scalford Hugo, please stay safe fella :)
The Grand Wazoo
12-03-2012, 20:38
All the best Hugo, take care.
All the best Hugo, wishing you a safe return.
jandl100
13-03-2012, 07:44
At this point, we're simply looking for people to tell us 'count me in!', in terms of showing a willingness to attend.
Count me in!
I am willing to attend ... as long as it's not too far oop bloody north! (Stoke etc is fine).
And I'll be happy to contribute some kit to rooms.
But it'll probably be a 1-day affair for me. :)
I'd like to suggest Northampton as a location. It has excellent national rail (West Coast Mainline) and coach links and the local bus service is very good, parking is easy to find too. It also has a dearth of hotels to choose from. Unless you are into shoes, Northampton doesn't have all that much to offer a tourist so we won't be fighting Robin Hood's Merry Men for hotel rooms :lol:
The Grand Wazoo
13-03-2012, 08:02
If Melton is too far south for some folks, bear in mind that Northampton is 50-odd miles further south (if you're driving).
Yup, I understand that Chris but it is a damn site easier to get too than Melton and the hotel prices are likely to be far cheaper than Nottingham ;)
The Grand Wazoo
13-03-2012, 08:11
Yup, understood, but these things are all taken into account when people decide whether to make a trip.
Spectral Morn
13-03-2012, 08:16
Damn right you will be, mate, so don't worry about that! Suggestion also noted.
Guys, wish Hugo all the best for his forthcoming trip on army duty to Afghanistan. Do what you gotta do there, matey, and come home soon safe and sound! :cool:
Marco.
+1 Take care.
God Bless you
Regards D S D L
Spectral Morn
13-03-2012, 08:17
Close to a national/international airport would be useful as well.
Regards D S D L
So... what about looking at locations close to East Midlands or Birmingham airport, with good rail links?
freefallrob
13-03-2012, 10:04
Interesting thread and idea, I'd certainly be interested in the show, thumbs up from me :-)
Mark Grant
13-03-2012, 11:09
So... what about looking at locations close to East Midlands or Birmingham airport, with good rail links?
The NEC :D
http://www.thenec.co.uk/
-
Lol - aye, I'm not that rich! :eyebrows:
Are you up for coming, Mark, and doing some demos of your cables? :)
Marco.
The Grand Wazoo
13-03-2012, 11:25
The NEC :D
No, it needs to be bigger - Marco's threatening to bring his Tannoys!
Lightweight. You'd have to build the hall around my Ushers.
The Grand Wazoo
13-03-2012, 11:37
It's official then, all round to Martin's place!
Lodgesound
13-03-2012, 11:54
Why not poll the entire board membership. Suggest 3 or 4 locations within say around 100 miles of each other around the centre of the country.
This would give you your most likely demographic of visitor numbers & convenience against likely attendance.
I would suggest 2 polls - a universal one and also one specifically for folk who wished to exhibit. An accurate average could then be deduced.
Just a thought....a viable alternative could be to POSSIBLY run the show twice in the year with a Northern & Southern location bias in each case.
No, it needs to be bigger - Marco's threatening to bring his Tannoys!
Scrub that, Marco's Tannoys are big enough to host the show in :lol:
The Grand Wazoo
13-03-2012, 13:28
Not possible - we'd have to evict his rabbits.
The Grand Wazoo
13-03-2012, 13:31
Who remembers this?
http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/ww282/hamish_gill/rabbitsfart.jpg
......the very best picture that Hamish has ever produced, I reckon!
Couldn't the rabbits live in the Ditton 66 until after the show? Just a suggestion...
Unfortunately I wouldn't be able to make it to the show, as I'm located in Canada, however I hope my thoughts about it are helpful.
What is the main purpose of the Show? Is it for AoS members to gather, learn and discuss their equipment? Or do you want to attract new interest in the hobby? If the latter, then a University campus location would be ideal to attract students interested in various ways to listen to music.
The Forum name "Art of Sound" is suggestive of an approach to advertising, audio room content and subject matter covered. For example, a newbie may learn why and how sound matters, but also view LP cover art.
I'm not sure how to do this: An experienced audiophile may wish to discuss details of a particular product/technique while a newbie in the room won't have a clue as to what is going on. Both should be able, somehow, to feel comfortable.
Forum members have a tremendous amount of knowledge and experience in all areas of music reproduction. The full range of reproduction should be covered in the Show (e.g., music servers, CDs, turntables).
Trade members should be in the Show but they should support the overall theme rather than being a room to display and buy equipment. The latter creates a situation of salesmanship rather than "a platform on which enthusiasts, dealers and manufacturers can talk to each other" (from Ethos)
What is the main purpose of the Show? Is it for AoS members to gather, learn and discuss their equipment? Or do you want to attract new interest in the hobby? If the latter, then a University campus location would be ideal to attract students interested in various ways to listen to music.
A very good point. However the university campus option would need careful consideration. If it makes use of campus bedrooms, they would need to be large enough and secure enough.
Sadly, when I was at university the security and size of campus rooms were questionable and almost none-existent.
Despite this, if we can find an appropriate place on a campus then it would be a cracking idea - and break the hotel mould.
Andrew
I think the "declared" goal should be to have two shows, one in the North and one in South. You may choose to start with one but I think that two separate shows would be better.
Several people would choose to go to both shows - since the equipment, people, discussions would be different - but the majority will want to remain close to home.
If you shift each year from South to North and vice versa then you will lose many/most of your participants from one show to the next. Two years wait for another show in your neighbourhood would be too long.
Placing a show midway between two populations (i.e., northern/southern audiophiles) would result in fewer attendants than having it close to one of the populations.
Whilst I think an AoS show is a very good idea and one I would attend, possibly exhibit at (dependant on location), I think a dose of reality thinking may be a good idea.
The consensus appears to be a two day show. This may well mean setting up on a Friday evening and disassemble on Sunday evening. For many this would mean a very late return on the Sunday night, or a stop over until Monday. So, it will be a likley 2, possibly, 3 night stay away. Even with a good deal, rooms would be unlikley to be less than £70/night, so a reasonable cost.
Then there would be the cost of the room to exhibit (unless 100% covered by an entrance fee).
Given the 2 day nature of the show this would mean many of those exhibiting would have to take the Friday, and possibly Monday, as a holiday from work.
So, possibly £200 on accomodation, £100 for exhibiting fees, £60 or so on fuel, drinks and food £50+++. £400-500 plus holiday time.
All in all quite a financial/time commitment. There are a fair few members on here who could afford this, but many who perhaps could not.
Any approach to a commercial venue would need to demonstrate likely numbers and facilities required. It is for sure that if a hotel, and rooms to be used, then a substantial commercial guarantee would be required (probably in the form of a credit card). Who makes that guarantee? (remember; the first WW show was, to a degree, backed by the Chester Group which would have provided additional credibility/confidence for the venue)
As to venue, then a Uni could be good. However, most of the Uni accomodation I've seen has been fairly small rooms which are away from the main academic areas, as it were (i.e. it would be difficult to use some rooms and some of the larger department/faculty rooms).
A management conference venue of some sort, perhaps?
Location is a very tricky one. I do a great deal of travelling for work, so a 8-10 hour return trip on a weekend day is not really something I'd want to do. I would imagine many others would feel the same.
I don't want this to be seen as a negative post as, with the right commitment, this is a good idea that could be made to work. But it will require a very great deal of effort and exposure to some financial risk ~ this does need to be appreciated and addressed.
I think a two location show, albeit separated by a year, is biting off way more than we can chew. It'll be hard enough gearing up for one show, but a show in two locations is as good as two different shows with twice the organizational headaches. It also means finding two venues that are suitable and striking up a good working relationship with two sets of management. I think we are asking for trouble doing it this way :eyebrows:
Jac Hawk
15-03-2012, 11:42
Simon, i know where you're coming from regarding the expense of a 2 day event, to be honest though good accommodation shouldn't cost more than say £45 per night if you book well enough in advance, also with regards to the cost of rooms for exhibiting i think it would be free to amateur exhibitors but trade would pay (slap me down if i've got this wrong Marco).
The only reservation i have for a two day event is that the venue is going to cost twice as much and you have to wonder, would you get twice as many people coming through the door, more likely you would have so many punters on saturday and so many on sunday, but i can see the benefits of having a two day event, and it would make it different
While a 2 day commitment could be very tricky, I did find as an exhibitor that the one day at Scalford passed too quickly.
Maybe a vote is in order - particularly from exhibitors. Even if the vote is evenly spread, then a one-day option maybe best outcome, to ensure enough exhibitors join in at all. If a majority is 2-day, then 2-day it is.
Andrew
Perhaps it would be an idea to get a more definite idea of precisely who would be prepared (like) to exhibit, before much more discussion of venue (etc.) takes place?
The Grand Wazoo
15-03-2012, 13:30
It's a bit chicken & egg though isn't it? People prepared to exhibit in Peterborough, for example won't necessarily be prepared to do so in Leeds. Maybe the principles should be established first.
I think the overall consideration is that the first show must be a success. Therefore, let's think small and beautiful rather than let our ideas run away with us?
On the exhibiting front, I'll be happy to run a room.
It's a bit chicken & egg though isn't it? People prepared to exhibit in Peterborough, for example won't necessarily be prepared to do so in Leeds. Maybe the principles should be established first.
Absolutely right. Nobody can make a proper decision until at least the fundementals have been established.
The Grand Wazoo
15-03-2012, 13:57
Therefore, let's think small and beautiful rather than let our ideas run away with us?
I'll second that!
Hi Guys,
There have been some good comments and suggestions, as usual, which I'll get to later. However, just to quickly address Mark's point:
Perhaps it would be an idea to get a more definite idea of precisely who would be prepared (like) to exhibit, before much more discussion of venue (etc.) takes place?
Indeed. However, remember that the AoS show, just like the Wam show, will not just be for members of those forums - it will be for everyone to attend or exhibit, which will be members of AoS, pfm, Wigwam, audio-talk, Audiosmile, TXN and also the general public, paying at the door along with non-exhibitors.
Therefore, if we're going to gauge the opinion of folks properly, rather than simply polling just the AoS membership, perhaps someone could start threads on pfm and Wigwam (and elsewhere on other forums), linking to this discussion, and asking whether or not the proposed show is something they'd be interested in or not? :)
Remember to outline the core features of the show, such as a selected trade presence, and the various 'audio workshops' proposed. Oh, and remember to stress, that our show will NOT be clashing with the Wam one in March or competing against it. This will be about providing something different, in advance of the regular Wam show.
If there is little interest from other forums, then we'll know then to keep things small and cosy, or not, as the case may be! :cool:
Marco.
Could someone please do this, as I'm not a member of pfm of Wigwam? I can see no evidence of any threads there so far asking about the AoS show...
Come on guys, there are loads of you who are members of the other forums, so get posting there, so we can find out what the score is - churz! :cool:
Marco.
Preferably it needs to be someone who is an established presence on all these forums. I'd do it, but I rarely post on either pfm or wigwam...
Started one for you.
http://www.hifiwigwam.com/showthread.php?67665-Art-Of-Sound-Show
And oin PFM - see here: -
http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?p=1629087#post1629087
and here: -
http://rockgrotto.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=7883
Cheers,
Dave.
Cheers, guys, much appreciated! Let's see what folks have to say :cool:
Marco.
Warrington, the nations most central location!
And oin PFM - see here: -
http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?p=1629087#post1629087
Dave, any chance you could ask Tony (or one of the mods) to move it to the audio section? The discussion is essentially about audio, and that's where the Wam thread was advertised. Folk might not see your thread as much in the off-topic area - churz! :cool:
Marco.
Jac Hawk
15-03-2012, 20:27
Well the 1st few posts from the wammers are luke warm to say the least:(
Lol - you have to expect a little bit of that. It's understandable. I didn't expect the notion to be universally welcomed with open arms! ;)
Once we actually do the show and demonstrate that it's not 'jumping on the bandwagon' or competing with the Wam show, but a genuinely different event, people's attitudes will change.
Marco.
Jac Hawk
15-03-2012, 20:39
i think so too, but at present i think it's a bit of a knee jerk, and i think that if we choose the location more wisely it will tempt exhibitors that are put off by Scalford due to it's location and facilities
Wakefield Turntables
15-03-2012, 20:55
Leeds would be a great location. Slap bang near the M1 and great train links.
Leeds would be a great location. Slap bang near the M1 and great train links.
Yes leeds would be great;)Not that far to travel
jon
Rare Bird
15-03-2012, 20:59
Great commrades.. just don't loose sight of the importance of us Transport users please.
Jac Hawk
15-03-2012, 21:43
funny how most people suggest a perfect location that just happens to be on their doorstep:scratch:
Reid Malenfant
15-03-2012, 21:52
funny how most people suggest a perfect location that just happens to be on their doorstep:scratch:
Yeah well I have no transport at all (except a pushbike lol), but it should be as near the centre of the UK as possible...
I'll be scrounging a lift with foldies to aid in the costs of petrol etc :D
Jac Hawk
15-03-2012, 22:01
you know what mate, Scalford is about as central as you can get, what we need to do is find a place with better transport links, thats one of the reasons i said Grantham as it's on the north east main line and on the A1, however that may pose a problem for people coming from the south west. I don't think there is 1 ideal location, it's always going to be a compromise but for me the sensible location is going to be somewhere in Nottinghamshire / Lincs / Cambs area
Reid Malenfant
15-03-2012, 22:08
Grantham is cool, it's on the east coast main railway line & the A1 road...
I could also get my mate Ian along (overheating or just standard KSA250 :scratch:) as he lives there :eyebrows:
Frankly I don't care where it is as long as I can get there somehow. Where there is a will, there is a way :D
The areas you mention though are pretty central...
Ok, I must address something that James has just posted on Wigwam:
I wonder if they'll show the Hotel management at their show more respect than they did at ours. They are starting their own show as they know they won't be asked to Scalford again, having shouted and sworn at the duty manager at Scalford. That's the real deal here.
Let's deal in facts here, not exaggerations or misunderstandings.
First of all, it was ME who complained to the hotel manager on the Saturday evening, because after spending hours setting up the system in John's room, and of course filling the room with tens of thousands of pounds worth of equipment, we found out that when we were just about to leave and go for a curry, that we couldn't lock the room, because, erm, there was NO lock on the door! :doh:
We found out later that this was because the room couldn't be locked, as it was a Fire Exit. The burning question here of course, is why was that room used in the first place for such a purpose, when they knew full well that people would be leaving expensive hi-fi equipment in there?
Anyway, we were therefore faced with risking leaving all our kit unattended in an open room, while we were away for hours, which of course none of us were happy with. Now, every other year that we've exhibited at Scalford, we've been able to set-up our kit before we went out for a meal, and then lock the door behind us, so I of course thought that this was a given...
What I didn't know was that apparently it was a 'special privilege' to be able to set up your kit on the Saturday night at the hotel, which I can understand, but the problem was I don't read Wigwam very often and so was completely unaware of the threads relating to the Saturday night situation, where that fact was explained. Certainly no-one using the room that we had appeared to know either, as they were just as shocked as I was that we couldn't lock our room.
Anyway, without that knowledge and thinking that we'd been given a room that was completely unsuitable for our needs, I went down to have a word with the hotel manager. Now, I wasn't happy, but I can give you my complete assurance that not once did I swear or was I aggressive towards the chap. I was firm and to the point, yes, but I did not swear! I was basically making a complaint along the same lines as I would've done had the bedroom I was paying for that evening to sleep in not had a lock on the door, i.e. it wouldn't have been fit for purpose.
Like I said, I thought that I was completely within my rights to so, as I had no idea whatsoever that the situation was different, due to what had been discussed on Wigwam. Let's not forget that it wasn't my room, or an AoS room. It belonged to John, our music room mod, and Vic, the designer of the Salvation turntable. We were simply supplying some kit for the system, so it wasn't up to me (or anyone else other than those two guys) to check the threads on Wigwam to see what was being discussed there.
I had a discussion with the hotel manager and he said that we could store our kit in an office, which was lockable, along the corridor from where our own room was, but of course that would have meant having to shift all our kit and start again from scratch, and that really wasn't much use. So I thanked him for his help and left it at that. As far as I was concerned the discussion we'd had was fine, and there was no swearing or abuse or whatever, but he must've been taken a little aback initially with me being firm and to the point, when I thought that I had every right to complain.
Since then, of course, the 'Chinese whispers' syndrome his kicked in!
Anyway, it turned out that one of the Wam guys next to our room wasn't going anywhere and he volunteered to look after our kit for us while we were away having a Thai curry, which of course we accepted - and a big thanks to him for that - top dude! Sorry, I can't remember his name. It meant then that the night wasn't a total disaster, apart from of course the small problem that John had to sleep on the floor in the room overnight, without much sleep, to guard all the kit!! :rolleyes:
And no way were we leaving all that very expensive kit in cars, with the potential for it getting stolen; besides we'd spent hours setting it all up, which was the whole point of coming on the Saturday night and paying for the 'privilege'! It cost over £80 for the room I had that night.
Poor John, he was absolutely shattered the next day, and understandably it completely ruined the whole experience for him... :(
Now, let's make one thing abundantly clear: I *get* the fact (now that I know the situation) that it's a privilege to be able to set-up your kit on the Saturday night, simply because the hotel is generally quiet. Cool. However, for me that doesn't excuse a room being given to folk leaving hugely expensive audio equipment in there, which doesn't have a lock on the door, because the room acts as a Fire Exit.
There can't be that many of those types of rooms, so the hotel shouldn't have allowed them to be used for that purpose, and simply kept them aside for appropriate use on other occasions. Surely that would've been the sensible thing to have done?? I can assure you that if I'd known I was bringing my kit to be left overnight in an unlocked room, then it would've stayed at home!!
Lastly, us wanting to do our own show now has got bugger all to do with what happened. The mods and I had been talking about this for months in the mod room - WAY before this year's Scalford show, so James, you're very wrong on that count. If you want to ban us from next year's show, that's up to you, but I would hope now that I've explained the situation, you can see what's happened and that no malice was intended by anyone.
Anyway, I just thought that it was important to let everyone know exactly what happened before the situation gets totally out of hand and we're being accused of things we didn't do. Let's hope that this unfortunate misunderstanding can be resolved amicably and we can all move on and put it behind us.
Marco.
{Edit: I now notice that they've pulled the thread on Wigwam (or removed it from view to non-members)! :doh:}
navigator
15-03-2012, 23:15
I'm new here but have exhibited at all Scalfords shows. It's shortcomings are known. It's fervent adherents are legion-it has an English charm.
I will attend or exhibit at AoS.show wherever it is in Nov.esp. if lowly £ 2000 systems are allowed.
A difference is essential -trade/demos/talks/diy-ers/etc- but 2 days is financially tricky. IMHO it would have to be huge i.e.THE MIDLAND HIFI EXTRAVAGANZA. Management would have to be from existing experienced staff of other venues for such an undertaking. You may have these people as members.
I do not believe HIFI has sufficient paying interest to sustain the cashflows needed. Home Video/theatre might have in economic growth years-not now. It's specialist-small scale hobbyist.
Look at memberships on the sites then look at attendances at shows-the ratio is not encouraging. By its very nature it is a domestic personal practice not like biking or rallying- more like classic car enthusiasts.
All that said I feel a smaller show [to experiment ] is greatly desirable and see it overflow -then consider 2 days. [aside-retail business would find staffing/stocking saturday demos too expensive]
Someone mentioned Chesterfield Derbyshire off m1-the Chesterfield Hotel or Ringwood Hall were both used to good effect and would be handy for national access and are probably the right size/cost.
Re access--- Does Marco have access to data about the national distribution of Hifi enthusiasts-I know that's a big ask but these days there are ways-e.g, concentrations of Hifi outlets could be a guide for higher end gear. Placing a venue that is near those hot spots would aid the commerce. Obviously B'ham has the population --but the BBC have moved big style into the now bouncing [and drier] Manchester .
Over 2 days-the attractiveness of the whole package is crucial if you want big numbers It has to be a day out-brochures online-snack food outlet[s]-family friendly-nearby indoor play facilities for children-cafe-fashion shopping nearby-hearing tests-live music [esp 'acoustic']-BBC sound teckys-record producers/studio staff giving talks/demos et seq-talent spotters for your staged singers/ groups-esp local music esp folk[ now that is too far] The record music industry has money and is always looking for outlets-is this acceptable/interesting ? Why not get involved in with those who make our reproduced sounds?
Many ideas previously noted on here are super and I see that Marco and execs have already got lists -all of which seem safe in my humble opinion. Do you want that pazazz -that super tweeter-the bass fundament of viability in the cacophony of current economy also? Why -yes sir!! Give the new entreprenuers- eg Inspire- a chance.
Or do not sell your ethos------------------- keep it small and simple --------at first.
OOPS just noticed --it says 'quick reply' SORRY.
Jac Hawk
15-03-2012, 23:33
just tried to read the thread started on wam and my access has been denied, this sort of childishness really hacks me off:steam:
We look to start our own show, and look for a bit of support and are met with this shit, what the fuck has James and HiFi Wigwam got to be worried about, it's been stated that by no means do we want to go toe to toe against the Scalford show, so what's the beef:scratch:
Jac Hawk
15-03-2012, 23:38
They are starting their own show as they know they won't be asked to Scalford againNice of them to let us know, would have been much simpler to have a quiet word on the day perhaps, rather than posting inflammatory remarks, i wonder if this would have been brought up if this thread hadn't been started:scratch:
PaulStewart
15-03-2012, 23:48
As it happens, I used to organise JVC's show presence when I worked there in the late 70s. * I think it was probably the best bit of the job, getting paid to stay in good hotels, play with high end kit and chat to people who were interested in what you had to say. * * * * * To my mind the best attended shows, other than the London ones, was in fact Harrogate, followed by *Birmingham. * *I think this was down to location and ease of access. I think that these are good areas to look at. *Any way I would be happy to help organise a show and I think a mix of trade and private rooms is the best way to go.*
Jac Hawk
15-03-2012, 23:53
Harrogate:eek: that's a real shocker, but hey it's only about an hour from my gaff so it's got my vote:lol:
Nice of them to let us know, would have been much simpler to have a quiet word on the day perhaps, rather than posting inflammatory remarks, i wonder if this would have been brought up if this thread hadn't been started.
Indeed, Mike. It's hardly fair on all our other members who are entirely innocent in all of this....
I should also mention that I had a PM from 'browellm', the organiser of the Wam show, and a mod on Wigwam, on 7/3/12. I wouldn't normally publish contents of PMs, but in this instance I think that it provides some useful balance. This is it exactly word-for-word:
Hi Marco
Hope you're well and have fully recovered from the show.
I'm disappointed and sad to have to write this, but on balance I thought you would want to be aware of it.
On Sunday morning I was chatting with the hotel's duty manager, just after sorting out the room mix up mess. *I thanked him for his speedy resolution to the issues that morning.
He mentioned an incident on the Saturday evening from a chap in Syndicate 15 - I think the exhibitor was John from AoS . *Apparently the duty manager was subjected to a volley of verbal abuse due to the fact that the room was not lockable. *He said it was pretty full-on and it left him a bit shocked.
The room contains a fire escape and cannot be locked - the duty manager explained this at the time. *I'd hoped I made clear through the many posts I made on Wigwam, that the ability for some exhibitors to set up on a Saturday is a privilege and a massive favour that the hotel grants us, as we do not pay for any rooms on Saturday.
The message was consistently given to Wammers to either expect to set up on the Sunday, or if they were staying Saturday and didn't want to leave kit in their cars, to ask another wammer if they could store kit in a room we did have access to.
So, why am I sending this to you? *Well, I thought about going to go up to Syndicate 15 on the Sunday, but actually decided it probably would have been confrontational and counter productive, seeing as I do not know the bloke at all. *I'm sure you know the exhibitor quite well?
What you decide to do with this information, I leave entirely to your discretion, but perhaps this chap would like to drop the hotel a quick email apology. *I'm sure that were some very stressful moments during the weekend.
*I will not be taking it any further, and I have already apologised personally to the duty manager for any offence that was caused. *He seemed to take it pretty well.
Regards
Mark
I replied to Mark asking him to give me a call so I could explain the situation properly, especially as John was being accused of something he hadn't done, so I wanted to clear that up toute-suite!
I left him my number and Mark called me and I explained to him exactly what I wrote in my earlier post, and he (appeared) to understand and accept that it was largely just a misunderstanding. I should stress once again that all this:
The room contains a fire escape and cannot be locked - the duty manager explained this at the time. *I'd hoped I made clear through the many posts I made on Wigwam, that the ability for some exhibitors to set up on a Saturday is a privilege and a massive favour that the hotel grants us, as we do not pay for any rooms on Saturday.
The message was consistently given to Wammers to either expect to set up on the Sunday, or if they were staying Saturday and didn't want to leave kit in their cars, to ask another wammer if they could store kit in a room we did have access to.
...was complete news to me. I just turned up expecting things to be the same way as they'd been with the three other Scalford shows I'd attended, where locking our room and leaving our kit in it wasn't a problem. Like I said, I very rarely read Wigwam (too busy running this place!) so had I known the above, I would of course NOT have complained to the hotel manager!
Anyhow, my telephone conversation with Mark was entirely amicable and we parted on what I thought were good terms, only for me tonight to read snide remarks from him, on WW before the thread was deleted, about us 'moaning' about how the Scalford show was organised and the hotel not being near a train station.
Surely one can offer constructive criticism without folk taking the hump? I'm quite sure when we do our own show that not everything will be perfect or will run like clockwork - far from it. But we won't be bitching like a girl to all and sundry if someone has the audacity to complain about something, or offer some constructive criticism! ;)
Anyway, I'm hopeful that those running WW will come to their senses soon and realise that a mountain has duly been made out of a molehill, and we can resolve the situation amicably and move on without any ill-feeling existing, in time for when next year's Scalford show comes around :cool:
Marco.
PaulStewart
15-03-2012, 23:59
just tried to read the thread started on wam and my access has been denied, this sort of childishness really hacks me off:steam:
We look to start our own show, and look for a bit of support and are met with this shit, what the fuck has James and HiFi Wigwam got to be worried about, it's been stated that by no means do we want to go toe to toe against the Scalford show, so what's the beef:scratch:
I have has a very strange experience with James at Wigwam. *I was banned 'cos I objected, in a PM not on the forum, to someone calling me and my colleagues "scum". *My donation was returned as the money may have come from one of the papers I used to work for. :scratch: I also saw that Max Townshend posted, refuting a number of inaccurate, probably libellous comments about him and his products. * I have looked and looked for the thread, but it appears to have been deleted. *I find this very strange behaviour, to say the least.
Jac Hawk
16-03-2012, 00:14
Spot on Marco,
the reason for this thread is so we can hopefully get the views of exhibitors and punters who attended Scalford and find out what, if anything we could do or change which would improve our chances at hosting a successful show for visitors and exhibitors alike, i for one enjoyed the scalford show, but it could in my view be made better, i have zero influence on Wam, and am 1st and fore most an AoS member, so naturally my thoughts and views would be posted here. When it all boils down to it i don't want an AoS show to be a Scalford MkII, and with any luck it won't be, but it would be helpful if the HiFi Wigwam allowed open discussion about the possibility of an AoS show on it's forum in the same way as the Scalford show is discussed and advertised on this forum, c'mon fair's fair:)
I couldnt give a toss about the inter-forum politics personally... Just keen to see a great show. Keep walking in the light guys, if we build it and build it well they will come...
Jac Hawk
16-03-2012, 00:25
St James park Rich, what a good idea mate:eyebrows:
Not the Sports Direct arena then...:lol:
Seriously though, anywhere thats not London is fine by me.
When it all boils down to it i don't want an AoS show to be a Scalford MkII, and with any luck it won't be, but it would be helpful if the HiFi Wigwam allowed open discussion about the possibility of an AoS show on it's forum in the same way as the Scalford show is discussed and advertised on this forum, c'mon fair's fair:)
Indeed, and that point has been conveniently missed by some. However, since when has what's fair ever come into it? Or as they say, why allow the facts to spoil a good story! ;)
None of this of course will affect the plans we have for doing our own show, but it would be nice if people on other forums were as friendly and accommodating, in that respect, as we are. However, this recent daftness certainly won't stop us from promoting the Wam show in future.
Anyhoo... Onwards and upwards! :cool:
Marco.
Jac Hawk
16-03-2012, 00:29
You get shot on sight for saying Sports Direct in the Toon don't you:lol:
The Grand Wazoo
16-03-2012, 00:35
This all seems a bit silly and childish & it looks to me (as someone who wasn't a witness to any of these events in person or 2nd hand until reading this thread) that someone is using a misunderstanding as an excuse to play out their own agenda here.
However, I'd like to clarify one particular point, and it's this:
The discussions about an AoS show began long before Scalford took place, as Marco has stated above. This has nothing to do with any events that may have happened at Scalford.
I started a thread in the mod area of AoS on 07-02-2012, 00:23 in order to discuss this & here's a screenshot to back up that statement.
http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/4383/aosdafteefest.jpg
The Grand Wazoo
16-03-2012, 00:38
....and don't ask me why it's pink - I haven't got a bleedin' clue how it came out like that!
Jac Hawk
16-03-2012, 00:45
It's your feminine side mate:lol:
I started a thread in the mod area of AoS on 07-02-2012, 00:23 in order to discuss this & here's a screenshot to back up that statement.
http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/4383/aosdafteefest.jpg
Jeez, I didn't think it was that long ago, Chris! I guess that time flies when you're a daftee!! :D
Still, it shows that the truth will always out... ;)
Marco.
P.S You know that I love you in pink.
Well, after the same thread went tits up on pfm, Tony L has shown the right attitude: http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?p=1629355#post1629355
I've been out all evening so have missed this. I'll leave this thread locked and let it die, but when AoS have firmed up arrangements for their event I'll wish them luck with it and I'll happily run an advertisement for it in the audio room. It's time to move on IMO.
Nice one, Tony! :youtheman:
Moving on, is precisely what we all need to do, and to work together in future, as audio and music enthusiasts with shared interests, instead of this immature and petty 'us and them' nonsense.
Marco.
P.S Nice comments from Simon (sq) on that thread on pfm....... :rolleyes:
The Grand Wazoo
16-03-2012, 01:02
Jeez, I didn't think it was that long ago, Chris! I guess that time flies when you're a daftee!!
Yeah, February 7th it was - perhaps I had a crystal ball and thought "Marco's going to say something to some poor unsuspecting hotel employee almost a month from now & that will annoy someone who I don't know, nor have ever had reason to be interested in his forum. This will annoy him so much that it's going to spoil my chances of attending a show that I've never been to, so we'd better have a show of our own"
Hmmmm - now I think about it, it's obvious that we've been rumbled.
:lolsign:
We would've gotten away with it too, if it weren't for those pesky kids!
Marco.
Jac Hawk
16-03-2012, 02:15
All i can say is, Simon have some faith fella;)
Let's see how many joint Wammers/AoS'ers receive room allocations at Scalford next year shall we? After this my guess is it will be 'none'. We're big enough to go it alone with our own show so we don't need to be rummaging around under the dining table for scraps, and they certainly don't need us taking room opportunities away from fellow Wammers, it's their show after all. Let's face it, as Scalford continues to grow AoS exhibitors won't get a look in and we can hardly blame the Wam if they decide on this course of action. Put the boot on the other foot.
Perhaps it might be worth having a word with the management at Scalford to see if they'd be willing to host another show (ours) later in the year. I'm sure there must be a relatively lean period at the hotel from late September through October. The big advantage for doing this is that we will be negotiating with a team that is already experienced with this format. Also, it may be possible to book a smaller block of rooms to begin with just to get things going, thus keeping costs down.
Just to clarify a few points that Marco has raised
Robin looked after the room while we went for the Thai Thanks you a real gent
Unfortantly I presummed Marco was reading the Wam thread and knew the rooms were a privallage, as they say presumptions are the mother of all mistakes. Also Marco was downstairs when Anthony told me he was speaking to mangement.
It was only when Marco was downstairs that I understood why the room did not have a key, as you cannot lock a fire escape
I voluntered to look after the room at night time due to how expensive the gear was as I was the person name down for the room.
I did not sleep and was a total wreck the next day and spent most of the day crashing out in the car so I be safe to drive Andrew and Paul back with me to London.
Unfortantly the whole experience left me feeling really down as I was really looking forward to be part of the show and did so much to make it work for everyone else yet was not part of the show myself.
sq225917
16-03-2012, 08:11
All i can say is, Simon have some faith fella;)
Lol, I'm not big on acts of faith- as you might expect. But I look forward to being proven wrong guys, we need more enthusiast shows. Just don't hold it at Scalford, there's no way it'll ever be seen as anything other than a clone if you do, no matter what your best intentions are.
Lol, I'm not big on acts of faith- as you might expect. But I look forward to being proven wrong guys, we need more enthusiast shows. Just don't hold it at Scalford, there's no way it'll ever be seen as anything other than a clone if you do, no matter what your best intentions are.
Never mind that bollocks. What's all this crap about being disconnected from reality and using magic beans as currency?
Magic beans are better than sour grapes and porkie pies.
Never mind that bollocks. What's all this crap about being disconnected from reality and using magic beans as currency?
I'm with you on this one Darren - the poor soul must have a bad case of schitzophrenia. I suggest he is politely invited to stay where his comments are appreciated by like minded ******'s.
Dave.
So nice of you to consider my mental state Dave. However I can assure you I'm not alone in holding the view that some of AOS more left-field proponents live somewhere largely untouched by the laws of physics and more akin to the realms of magic. If you find that too provocative a stance then I'm sorry you disagree with me. I'm sure you'll get over it though.
So why do you find it a good thing or necessary to malign your fellow members on another forum, particularly one that has it's fair share of members who can be similarly described? Do you feel more comfortable in their company than you do on AoS? Whatever your problem is I'm not sure you'll get over it though.
Dave, whilst I share your sentiments, I deleted Simon's post for a reason...
I'll be discussing Simon's future (or not) on AoS with him in private shortly, and outlining what it will take for him to remain here, so I'd be obliged if we all left it there until the situation has been resolved.
Cheers! :)
Marco.
Rare Bird
16-03-2012, 13:07
funny how most people suggest a perfect location that just happens to be on their doorstep:scratch:
:lol: Where as i'm not bothered as long as i can get there easy & early without the need to stay over
I just don’t know; you boys honestly! :lol:
A day away from the missus and John turns into a homicidal manic suffering from sleep deprivation, Marco runs riot through the building reenacting his favorite rock legends on tour behavior and now we’ve got a turf war with the Wammers.
Spect the others were fighting with broken valves out in the car park.:eyebrows:
Sounds like I missed a great party, and there was me saying to my mate that I didn’t bother with Hi Fi shows coz they wus boring an always the same rather intense audiophiles and trade mix talking nonsense an trying to flog you stuff. :D
Ahem, well given the above and never liking to miss a really good party I’ve had another chat with my mate and we thought it might be interesting to take a room and bring some digital kit along with a couple of sets of speakers, if AoS has got any members left alive and out of jail once the turf war is over.
Feck knows what we can use for weapons given we wont have valves; maybe a few short lengths of speaker wire. :D
Will trade members be off limits with regard to the mindless violence, or will they be fair game given they wont worry which side they flog stuff to.
(Now where did I put that braided Cat5?)
wiicrackpot
16-03-2012, 13:38
Spect the others were fighting with broken valves out in the car park.:eyebrows:
Feck knows what we can use for weapons given we wont have valves; :D
Will trade members be off limits with regard to the mindless violence, or will they be fair game given they wont worry which side they flog stuff to.
(Now where did I put that braided Cat5?)
There's an idea, it certainly brings a new meaning to 'Glassing' someone, especially if you've a score to settle.:eyebrows:
I'm away to convert my Paint Ball gun to load my old out-of-spec valves, see you'all at the carpark where ever it's being held.
wii.
What was the old Chesterfield Show venue like? That's pretty central and no more than a mile or two off the M1...
The very first Chesterfield shows were some of the best I ever went too - really informal atmosphere loads of really enthusiastic designers playing music and chatting, Tom Fletcher, Doug Dunlop, Richard Lord. Any show that could include current independent specialists such as Glenn Croft, John Wood, Stan Beresford, Les Wolstenholme etc etc etc would be a winner in my books.
The first shows were at the Chesterfield Hotel adjacent to the railway station but parking was always an issue, I think it lost something when it moved to Ringwood hall but parking was better - By the time it moved to Buxton it was getter far more commercial and the appeal had gone - I went the first year but not again.
For me demo's of independent commercial gear would be a real buzz and would help with costs too.
The audio Jumble at the early Chesterfield shows was another winning idea and also the private kit for sale notice board.
Ultimately I guess the key will be room costs, from experience even a small conference room can costs £500+ and larger rooms £1000s so an amicable venue with sensible rates which probably means independent, will I suspect, be critical.
The Moat House (now Holiday Inn) at Doncaster A1 J36 was I thought always a good venue back in the days when HiFi shows were held there.
freefallrob
16-03-2012, 14:57
I liked the the Chesterfield show, gosh years ago that was! The one I went to see was at Ringwood hall, went with Dad:).
There was talk a while ago about reviving it, Avondale audio, Inspire Hifi etc...
Rob.
Avondale Audio
16-03-2012, 15:47
I was speaking with my Chesterfield Show co-conspirator David Rusby (Lynwood Electronics) last month and mooted the possibility of resurrecting the Ringwood Hall show. The fact is that it took three months out of our lives every year and for what.? ... a free room and the chance to take a few orders was all we ever got out of it indeed, two years showed a loss on room rentals.
If we ever organise it again, and the Hotel management were well up for it at the last count, the room rates will have to be realistic and may preclude those tiny businesses for whom the show originally began. A sad state of affairs you'll agree and a bit of a dilemma for me.
Perhaps the various manuacturers/artisans on here might express an interest in order for me to gain some idea of numbers and if promising, I'll look into producing a show in the future. Don't leave it too late though, I'm not far off 70 years old now so time is 'a wasting'.
Thanks all,
Les
Audioman
16-03-2012, 19:31
The very first Chesterfield shows were some of the best I ever went too - really informal atmosphere loads of really enthusiastic designers playing music and chatting, Tom Fletcher, Doug Dunlop, Richard Lord. Any show that could include current independent specialists such as Glenn Croft, John Wood, Stan Beresford, Les Wolstenholme etc etc etc would be a winner in my books.
The first shows were at the Chesterfield Hotel adjacent to the railway station but parking was always an issue, I think it lost something when it moved to Ringwood hall but parking was better - By the time it moved to Buxton it was getter far more commercial and the appeal had gone - I went the first year but not again.
For me demo's of independent commercial gear would be a real buzz and would help with costs too.
The audio Jumble at the early Chesterfield shows was another winning idea and also the private kit for sale notice board.
Ultimately I guess the key will be room costs, from experience even a small conference room can costs £500+ and larger rooms £1000s so an amicable venue with sensible rates which probably means independent, will I suspect, be critical.
The Ringwood Hall parking could be a nightmare if wet. Access up muddy narrow lane on to churned up grass at rear of venue. Great valve orientated show though. Ruined by move to Buxton in 1995 ? Shows need to be easily accessable from motorways. Thought it went back to Chesterfield a couple years later before ending.
PaulStewart
16-03-2012, 20:53
I did the Chesterfield show with Loricraft / Garrard and Art Audio once. Thoroughly enjoyed it. Good mix of exhibitors, and interesting crowd as I recall. Also, we sold enough kit to makeva profit.
Rare Bird
16-03-2012, 23:58
I was speaking with my Chesterfield Show co-conspirator David Rusby (Lynwood Electronics) last month and mooted the possibility of resurrecting the Ringwood Hall show.
Thats intresting Les i passed trough Wentworth (just 2 mins from me) the other day, are Lynwood still operating? I used to own an 'Emerald'!
I'll respond to some of the recent posts here later, but just to let everyone know that I've been in discussion with James Palmer, from Wigwam, and he understands now that the situation between the hotel manager and me at Scalford was a misunderstanding.
Therefore, no-one from AoS will be banned from exhibiting at Scalford next year, or attending the show, and he is also willing to support/advertise on Wigwam the AoS show when we have agreed on a suitable date and venue for the event, which is exactly Tony L's position on pfm.
So, it's good news. We can now concentrate on making the show happen and trying to make it a success! :cool:
Marco.
I'll respond to some of the recent posts here later, but just to let everyone know that I've been in discussion with James Palmer, from Wigwam, and he understands now that the situation between the hotel manager and me at Scalford was a misunderstanding.
Therefore, no-one from AoS will be banned from exhibiting at Scalford next year, or attending the show, and he is also willing to support/advertise on Wigwam the AoS show when we have agreed on a suitable date and venue for the event, which is exactly Tony L's position on pfm.
So, it's good news. We can now concentrate on making the show happen and trying to make it a success! :cool:
Marco.
Please, make it some time later than March. I don't care where it is, or when it is - I would like to be there, if only to meet some of you Guys!
Regards
jandl100
17-03-2012, 07:56
Well done, Marco, for the agreement with James/Wigwam and Tony/pfm.
Self-selected AOS-ers really should not be tasked with setting up threads on other forums off their own bat, as it were, without a firm guide as to what should be said (precise wording should be agreed with Marco/AOS in advance) and without the consent of the local management (PM a Wam/pfm mod and get agreement).
It really does need to be done more carefully. :)
bogle111
17-03-2012, 10:29
Well done, Marco, for the agreement with James/Wigwam and Tony/pfm.
Self-selected AOS-ers really should not be tasked with setting up threads on other forums off their own bat, as it were, without a firm guide as to what should be said (precise wording should be agreed with Marco/AOS in advance) and without the consent of the local management (PM a Wam/pfm mod and get agreement).
It really does need to be done more carefully. :)
That is constructive.
Whether a Club, Regional or National Show, it still needs similar basics and a high degree of commitment, logistical ability, charm building to a great leap of faith.
Objectives, Accounting, Liason, PR, Sponsorship, Organisation, Planning, Advertising etc. all have to done with TOTAL agreement of the organising few. You also have to give an organised and professional approach to this if it is to attract people and trade, have any chance of continuity and be successful.
This difference between "Egg on Face" and "Egg Butty" is organisation and anticipating the unlikely.
I wish you every success with this venture, but sniping and bickering of/by different Clans is extremely destructive and counter productive, especially at the outset, both to members and trade attendance.
I think this should be done by PM's once it is published as to who is dealing with what aspect.
Well done, Marco, for the agreement with James/Wigwam and Tony/pfm.
Self-selected AOS-ers really should not be tasked with setting up threads on other forums off their own bat, as it were, without a firm guide as to what should be said (precise wording should be agreed with Marco/AOS in advance) and without the consent of the local management (PM a Wam/pfm mod and get agreement).
It really does need to be done more carefully. :)
To be fair Jerry, Marco did ask for someone to post the info on both forums earlier in this thread...
jandl100
17-03-2012, 12:18
Yes, I know, Dave. But read my post more carefully. ;)
Inter-forum politics are VERY sensitive at the best of times.
I take that onboard Jerry and I agree with you, this situation could have been handled a lot better with a bit of thought ;)
I think this show should be different to any other hi-fi show staged thus far to make it unique.
Exhibitors should all be naked :rfl:
Oh God no, if I turn up nikid all the punters will run away... :lol::D
Sounds like your recovery is continuing Frank - nice to hear :lol::lol:
twelvebears
17-03-2012, 15:38
As a member of most of the forums (well I was before this post anyway), I do find the 'inter-form politics' puzzling at best and frankly ridiculous at worst.
You really would think that as they are all supposed to be about enjoying the hobby of music and audio, everyone could just get along?
It would be nice if each could just choose to have it's own 'style' and perhaps particular focus, but otherwise have a 'brothers in arms' bond in that we all like our music and boys' toys.
However before any of us get too concerned or have our noses put too out of joint, you may just like to read this which comes directly from a Wam post:
Stop moaning
I cant believe the amount of negativity that is flying around!
Just unbelievable.
2 days after a hugely successful show. I just cant believe it.
We should be doing NOTHING but reflecting in the glory of what happened.
Yes, possibly some things could have been improved. But now is not the time.
The guys in charge did a fantastic job. leave it to them . This isnt a democracy. It wouldnt work. If they want ideas debated, let them suggest it in 6 months. Not now!!!!!
Next thing we will be hiring in PR folks. appointing a project manager. a financial advisor. a man in a yellow jacket, directing traffic. Someone on the front door inspecting the suitability of any music brought in. Sorry sir, I cant let you in with that tie and suit on. Jeez, its an enthusiasts show, for us. Rough edges and all, it is fantastic.
Lets savour this, not start in-fighting.
It seems that they are even having a go at each other over the show, so I suggest comments are taken with a pinch of salt....
As a member of most of the forums (well I was before this post anyway), I do find the 'inter-form politics' puzzling at best and frankly ridiculous at worst.
I find them hugely enjoyable, purely as a spectator sport of course.
When is the show likely to occur then anyone?
Bristol, Scalford, Whittlebury, Audio World, Manchester Show, Owston and now AOS, looking like a full calendar, hopefully someone will see fit to host it date wise in between other shows?
Maybe June/July would be good. It avoids the August holiday season, I recall no other shows and the weather is more likely to be fine.
Unless it is mid-season for hotels.
Andrew
Dominic Harper
18-03-2012, 08:11
Just caught up with this thread.
I like the idea of Stoke as a venue. Not too far for me and loads of heavy slate to get to!
I also would like two rooms, one for a complete vinyl setup, and another area where I can set up a cartridge inspection area where I can possibly offer free inspections and advice. Another idea would be a turntable setup demo of some sort?
Nice one, Dom. Don't worry, mate, you'll be very well accommodated! :cool:
I think that having the likes of you, Stan and Paul Hynes there will be key to the event being a success!
Marco.
Hi David,
When is the show likely to occur then anyone?
Bristol, Scalford, Whittlebury, Audio World, Manchester Show, Owston and now AOS, looking like a full calendar, hopefully someone will see fit to host it date wise in between other shows?
We're planning for some time in November 2013 :)
Marco.
ursus262
18-03-2012, 13:18
I've read this thread with great interest, as the idea of having an AoS show is a fantastic idea. I've never met anyone on here before, and it would be nice to put faces to screen names. I don't want to go over old ground, but would like to add some of my thoughts:
1. I think the event should be located on the M1, A1 or M6 corridors for ease of access;
2. Access to public transport should be a consideration;
3. We could consider a car share scheme;
4. I would be interested in seeing some speakers attend the event (human ones, not the wooden-box variety lol) with something interesting to talk about or some useful insights to share.
5. In planning for this event, consideration should be given to assessing risk, and taking security into consideration.
Hope this helps.
November sounds good. It is a quiet month in the hi-fi calendar and a perfect opportunity.
The tricky bit will be "pinning the tail on the donkey" - North, South or Middle? We probably all have strong views there.
I would of course support Marlow, lovely area, just off the M40, great local beer (Rebellion) and it's on my doorstep :P
Andrew
I would of course support Marlow
So would I, Andrew, but we're never going to get a location that close to us :lol:
hifinutt
20-03-2012, 05:57
When? later on in the year October time maybe, enough time to let that Scalford show settle and have folks thirsty for more:eyebrows:
great idea , plaese not too close to feb as 2 shows together exhausted my brownie points !
November 2013, surely this year you mean, won't be that hard to organize once it gets going?
Nope - defo next year. We don't want to rush this, as it'll take lots of planning to get it *right*, and I don't do failure ;)
Marco.
april.may.june.july.august.september.october
how much time you want?
During which time of course, we're all just sitting here twiddling our thumbs, with nothing else happening in our lives other than organising a show............! ;)
Marco.
First of all, you/we(?) need to agree on a venue, or at least a location.
Once that has been decided, than one can worry about the time of year.
Indeed, which is what takes time: finding the right venue.
And we're looking into that. We're 95% sure, though, that the show will be held in November, and most likely the first one will be in 2013 :)
Marco.
The Hotel today at the show in Weybridge was perfect, best show venue
I have been to.
And southernly to keep the riff-raff out.
bogle111
25-03-2012, 18:51
The Hotel today at the show in Weybridge was perfect, best show venue I have been to.
And southernly to keep the riff-raff out.
Derived from Old French 'rif et raf' meaning 'one and all, every bit.'
May as well hold it on a B road in Wales then or Foulness.
Who in hell wants to drive to Weybridge? Definitely would keep 'one and all' away!;)
Having been involved in the organising of many exhibitions in the past, FWIW I think Marco has chosen a good time of year. The "season" has kicked off and should attract trade, if that is a goal. Armchair stuff.
Choosing the area and a specific location, now that takes stamina! PITA Time!
Dealing with the venue? Morphine at the ready!
I can see some "bitchin' a comin'", so probably time to cut Marco some slack. "You cannot please any of the people any of the time!" Rule No 1 of any show organisation.:steam:
Regards
Pete
Dominic Harper
26-03-2012, 09:40
I don't envy you Marco. Good luck with sorting this lot out, but let me know if I can be of assistance. (note to self... prob gonna regret saying that)
Derived from Old French 'rif et raf' meaning 'one and all, every bit.'
May as well hold it on a B road in Wales then or Foulness.
Who in hell wants to drive to Weybridge? Definitely would keep 'one and all' away!;)
Having been involved in the organising of many exhibitions in the past, FWIW I think Marco has chosen a good time of year. The "season" has kicked off and should attract trade, if that is a goal. Armchair stuff.
Choosing the area and a specific location, now that takes stamina! PITA Time!
Dealing with the venue? Morphine at the ready!
I can see some "bitchin' a comin'", so probably time to cut Marco some slack. "You cannot please any of the people any of the time!" Rule No 1 of any show organisation.:steam:
Regards
Pete
35 mins from Waterloo on the train,
15 mins from M25
Lots of free parking.
Near Heathrow and Gatwick
in affluent area with lots of disposable income,
yeah, really bad idea.
It is if you live 200 miles away (or more)... Not all of us live in the south, you know! The AoS show will definitely be no further south than Derby - most likely around Stoke.
Marco.
Also, Tim, unless I've missed it, you don't appear to have started a welcome thread, since you joined. Therefore, please attend to that on your next visit, as this procedure is required of all members - ta! :)
Marco.
Rare Bird
26-03-2012, 10:46
Why is it that people are choosing frigging locations that suit them, stop being self centred dudes it's a location required that easy access for everyone. Since when has London been central??
Why is it that people are choosing frigging locations that suit them, stop being self centred dudes it's a location required that easy access for everyone. Since when has London been central??
Wherever it is some people will have to travel a long way if they want to go.
London is probably one of the best places to have a show for loads of reasons.
Indeed, but it seems like Tim's one of these types who doesn't believe that life exists north of Watford junction! :rolleyes:
Marco.
How about Wrexham? :eyebrows:
There must be a hotel or two there that could accommodate a bunch of audio nuts.
Despite living in East Anglia, Wrexham would be convenient for me.
It is also a lot better located for members than London or the home counties.
Just a thought.
Rare Bird
26-03-2012, 11:21
I still think Stoke-on-trent is a good place to get to..it's been mentioned already.
Jac Hawk
26-03-2012, 11:23
Can you imagine the cost of holding a show in London c'mon the parking alone is going to need a mortgage
Can you imagine the cost of holding a show in London c'mon the parking alone is going to need a mortgage
Did I suggest London? :scratch: I simply used it as an example of the 'London-centric' thinking some members might have.
Wherever it is held there needs to be good connectivity: not too far from a motorway, plenty of parking and reasonable rates for the room for overnighters.
I think that Mike was just making a general point, Barry, most likely in response to Tim's earlier post :)
Wrexham is a no-no, even though it would suit me, as it's too far north for a lot of people, who would like to attend the show. Like I said, the most likely location is going to be around the Stoke/Staffordshire/Birmingham area.
Over my dead body will it be anywhere near London! ;)
Marco.
I think that Mike was just making a general point, Barry, most likely in response to Tim's earlier post :)
Wrexham is a no-no, even though it would suit me, as it's too far north for a lot of people who would like to attend the show. Like I said, the most likely location is going to be around the Stoke/Staffordshire/Birmingham area.
Over my dead body will it be anywhere near London! ;)
Marco.
Stoke on Trent would be good for me, as long as the rates are reasonable. :)
I'm still looking at Keele University as a venue - 15 mins from main line station, 10 mins from M6, about 1000 free car parking spaces, overnight accomodation at around £30 per night. Broadband in evry room too.
The only sticking point is that they are set up for conferences rather than shows so their may be a problem with having enough rooms large enough to demo systems in (the bedrooms are too small) but I am working on this.
Rare Bird
26-03-2012, 12:41
Stoke on Trent would be good for me, as long as the rates are reasonable. :)
Some nice places there, be easy for Marco go check out a place see if it's suitable..
http://www.shop-stoke.co.uk/places-to-shop/
:eyebrows:
PaulStewart
18-04-2012, 19:43
Indeed, but it seems like Tim's one of these types who doesn't believe that life exists north of Watford junction! :rolleyes:
Marco.
It's life Jim, but not as we know it. :lol::lol::ner:
ursus262
18-04-2012, 20:46
Over my dead body will it be anywhere near London! ;)
But Marco, down here we have electricity, broadband internet, sun-dried tomatoes and everything! :D
But Marco, down here we have electricity, broadband internet, sun-dried tomatoes and everything! :D
Luxuries indeed... up here we have water, lots of it judging by the bloody rain today!
Jac Hawk
22-04-2012, 13:56
Luxuries indeed... up here we have water, lots of it judging by the bloody rain today!
Yes, no bloody hosepipe bans either:lol: hard to grow those sun dried toms if you can't get water to grow them;)
ursus262
23-04-2012, 16:45
Yes, no bloody hosepipe bans either:lol: hard to grow those sun dried toms if you can't get water to grow them;)
Well, I don't know about that. We've had so much rain this past week this part of the world is soaked through! Mind you, we needed it badly though.
Indeed - I've always found Luton particularly exotic.
Marco.
When I think of Luton one memory stands out. Stopping for lunch on a bike ride to London with a friend, and eating a kebab with the hottest bloody chilly sauce I have ever tasted in my life. Seriously, it could have come right out of the heart of Chernobyl itself. Never again... I had to down three pints of gold top to put out the fire... :eyebrows:
I brought home a chilli sauce from Texas called Rectal Rocket Fuel. My word, that is hot. Yum :)
That sounds like serious ring sting! :eyebrows:
Marco.
The Grand Wazoo
24-04-2012, 07:33
..........Rectal Rocket Fuel.
My, what a long, strange trip this thread has been!
ursus262
28-04-2012, 21:33
My, what a long, strange trip this thread has been!
Well, quite. Makes me thing of trips ooop north really ;)
Rare Bird
28-04-2012, 21:49
Five pages of crap thats really not got anywhere :lol:
Five pages of crap thats really not got anywhere :lol:
+1
Just five pages? :eyebrows:
Don't worry, the show will be happening, and there are enquiries going on in the background. But right now, there are other things of more immediate importance going on and taking up our time.
Must be great though just to sit back, do bugger all, and criticise! ;)
Marco.
Just five pages? :eyebrows:
Don't worry, the show will be happening, and there are enquiries going on in the background. But right now, there are other things of more immediate importance going on and taking up our time.
Must be great though just to sit back, do bugger all, and criticise! ;)
Marco.
Ouch!
Do bear in mind that the event is not scheduled to go ahead until NOV 2013, so don't expect any major developments/announcements until much nearer the time! ;)
Marco.
Is this show still on the cards ?
Yes, absolutely! Scheduled date is 3/11/13 in Derby. Venue still to be confirmed :)
Marco.
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