PDA

View Full Version : Clip on ferrite clamps



realysm42
01-03-2012, 00:02
I was originally going to PM Neil with this query, but I thought why not air the question publicly as it might benefit others on here, so here goes:

Hi Neil,

I read your review on the RCA and XLR noise reduction caps (thanks for that btw, it was informative and I've decided to give them a go).

I noticed you briefly mentioned clip on ferrite clamps (atleast that's what I think you were referring to) in the review also, so I got googling and (as usual) find myself with more questions than answers; I was wondering if you could answer some queries I've got please?

Is it a case of selecting the right size (diameter) and just plonking them on your cables?

Are there different grades and if so, is it a case of numbers meaning better sound or do you have to try them out to see which has the best effect on your system?

Is there such thing as an average and high level version?

Cheers mate (and anyone else that jumps in).

Spectral Morn
01-03-2012, 00:19
Well there are ferrite clamps and rings.

Rings are designed to wrap cables round and I do indeed have the mains cables inside my MK metal box units wrapped round some ferrite rings. I found this helps.

I don't believe there are different grades of ferrite (could be though) but in general the ferrite needs to be close to the cable so the clamp should grip the cable tightly but not so tightly as to damage the covering of the cable.

I use them in many places in my system and the effect is a cumulative one the more there the better but you won't hear the differences as a wow moment, after putting one on (not in my experiences so far anyway) but only once you remove them all and then put them back. Put them on places were there is the biggest benefit, pre-amp, phonostage, tonearm cable etc.

I began using them long time ago back in the late 80's when TDK released them first as 'noise absorbers'. However my dad who is an amateur radio enthusiast has been using ferrite rings for many years.

Hope the above helps.


Regards D S D L

WOStantonCS100
01-03-2012, 05:21
I've been thinking about getting some of these for a long time and sprinkling them about the "spaghetti". ;) Strangely enough, it was my work in computers/networking that first focused my attention on them. But, if they work, they work.

The Grand Wazoo
01-03-2012, 08:02
.......but in general the ferrite needs to be close to the cable so the clamp should grip the cable tightly but not so tightly as to damage the covering of the cable.

Does it really need to be tight Neil? Is there a reason for this that you know?

realysm42
01-03-2012, 08:15
Do they work over any cable, or just ones that carry information/signal?

I'm looking at my power leads and some of them have them.

Covenant
01-03-2012, 08:36
A word of warning. I put one on an ethernet cable at the rear of my Touch and found it dulled the treble. Moved the ferrite choke a foot away and the treble returned.

prestonchipfryer
01-03-2012, 08:50
There's a bit about ferrite here:

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=12573

DSJR
01-03-2012, 09:03
I use them still, more from habit as they were absolutely necessary when I lived in Luton but less so here I found. They're very cheap and the more you use, the smaller any "difference" becomes I found. If there's any cable to try first, it's the main mains lead if you have a distribution block. Those with borderline cases should find a decent screened mains cable (shill for Mark Grant here :)) will be enough.

Spectral Morn
01-03-2012, 09:27
Do they work over any cable, or just ones that carry information/signal?

I'm looking at my power leads and some of them have them.

I have added them to a number of mains cables as well, mainly digital/analogue sources.

I have them placed on most of the cables in my system, including the speaker cable as well.


Regards D S D L

Spectral Morn
01-03-2012, 09:33
Does it really need to be tight Neil? Is there a reason for this that you know?

Good question Chris. Well most of the ferrite clamps that one sees on mainscables in the computer industry and on plasma/lcd tvs are built into the cable i.e part of it and therefore not lose and my Dad always wrapped cables round the rings fairly tightly; so its really a case of doing as others do here with no real info as to why.

So is there a technical reason for having it tight, in all honesty I don't know bar not having a fairly heavy clamp free to slide up and down a cable and being able to position it so it stays in place.

In my system these work and always have done.

Regards D S D L

Spectral Morn
01-03-2012, 09:35
A word of warning. I put one on an ethernet cable at the rear of my Touch and found it dulled the treble. Moved the ferrite choke a foot away and the treble returned.

I have heard others mention things like this in relation to conventional signal cables (no experience of ethernet) so like all things its a suck it and see, system synergy issue. In my own set up there are no treble issues.


Regards D S D L

Marco
01-03-2012, 09:38
A word of warning. I put one on an ethernet cable at the rear of my Touch and found it dulled the treble. Moved the ferrite choke a foot away and the treble returned.

Indeed. They can have that effect sometimes. Like anything else in audio, ferrite clamps are far from being a universal panacea. Much depends on the RFI noise level of the environment you live in and/or the sonic signature of your system and its susceptibility (and cables used) to being affected by such interference.

In some circumstances, like Neil's, the effect of using ferrite clamps/rings can be entirely beneficial, but overuse them in other situations, and they can often make systems sound lifeless, by 'killing the music', in a similar way as certain mains filters do, which 'sit' on the sound, by raising impedance.

Where I've had most success with ferrite rings/clamps is on mains leads, and on the cable that supplies power to a mains distribution block, where fitting a ferrite ring at both ends of the cable succeeded in removing an underlying 'hash' from the sound, thus reducing the perceived noise-floor of the system and making music sound 'cleaner', and thus clearer.

I've had less success using them on signal cables, but this is definitely one to 'suck and see'. My advice would be try a couple at a time, in certain areas of your system, and live with it that way for a while. Then remove them and see if you perceive an adverse effect, or otherwise. If there is an adverse effect, then add some more and repeat the testing process.

If after that you end up using lots of them, live with the clamps in situ for about a month, then remove them all in one go, listen, and see what happens, using the results of *THAT* experience as the final deciding factor, in terms of whether to keep them in permanently or not.

It's so easy to take a wrong turn and go backwards, making things sound worse and not better with these types of things. Therefore, take your time to decide and be sure, rather than sorry and wondering one day where all the music has gone! :)

Marco.

realysm42
01-03-2012, 19:43
Interesting advice, thanks all.

Ammonite Audio
01-03-2012, 20:18
When I saw this thread and references to clamps and rings, I wondered if it was all about something else entirely :stalks:

Spectral Morn
01-03-2012, 20:45
When I saw this thread and references to clamps and rings, I wondered if it was all about something else entirely :stalks:

lol :eek: :lol:


Regards D S D L

sq225917
01-03-2012, 21:22
A good source of info.
http://fair-rite.com/newfair/index.htm

Gents, Placing a ferrite on a digital cable cannot attenuate a specific part of the audio frequency band encoded within the data stream. The data is encoded, it is not an analogue representation of the music signal. A big ferrite might attenuate some signal level from a near-RF data carrier, but that would correspond to a reduction in the level of the transmitted signal, potentially causing loss of signal lock and jitter, not a reduction in any specific frequency band within the encoded data.

What you claim is akin to the same ferrite removing all the letter 'Z' from a word doc I have sent in a zip file down the same ethernet wire.

Covenant
01-03-2012, 22:11
My point was that the ferrite was close to the circuitry of the Touch, not that it was altering anything in the cable.

ursus262
07-03-2012, 18:29
I work for a medical devices company, and we found that ferrite clamps do indeed reduce RFI on mains cables (med devices are quite susceptible to this kind of interference) and had the traces to prove it.

However, what was most interesting, was that the benefit was maximised by moving the clamp to a point roughly one third of the way along the length of the cable! So those of you who do have clamps might like to try moving them along the cable and see if they notice an improvement.

realysm42
07-03-2012, 18:33
Can anyone link me ones that I would be okay using on my stereo, there's an overwhelming choice for me?

prestonchipfryer
07-03-2012, 19:49
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/8-TDK-11mm-1130-Cable-Wire-RFI-EMI-Noise-Filter-Ferrite-/220744535652?pt=UK_ConsumerElectronics_SpecialistR adioEquipment_SM&hash=item3365664e64&clk_rvr_id=321636009620&afsrc=1
Here is one link.

Wakefield Turntables
07-03-2012, 20:03
Well they arn't going to do your hifi any harm! I've used ferrite clips for ages but only on my mains cables. DO NOT use them on interconnects or speaker wire. I have some for sale if anyones interested?

realysm42
07-03-2012, 20:07
If the clamp isn't tight around the cable, does one lose the benefit of it?

(thanks for the link)

Marco
07-03-2012, 20:33
Hi Dave,


However, what was most interesting, was that the benefit was maximised by moving the clamp to a point roughly one third of the way along the length of the cable! So those of you who do have clamps might like to try moving them along the cable and see if they notice an improvement.

Interesting... I'll certainly try that! The normal recommendation, in terms of mains-carrying cables, is to place ferrites at either ends of the equipment 'inlets'.

Marco.

Wakefield Turntables
07-03-2012, 21:20
Hi Dave,



Interesting... I'll certainly try that! The normal recommendation, in terms of mains-carrying cables, is to place ferrites at either ends of the equipment 'inlets'.

Marco.

This is exactly what I did and I noticed a small improvement. I've still got mine in place. Every little helps! ;)

Reid Malenfant
07-03-2012, 23:06
I don't believe there are different grades of ferrite (could be though) but in general the ferrite needs to be close to the cable so the clamp should grip the cable tightly but not so tightly as to damage the covering of the cable.

Regards D S D L
There are loads of different grades of ferrite, though these are more useful to know in the case of an SMPS transformer. In the case of interference suppression it really will not matter what grade the ferrite is as it's all about losses at frequencies that just don't matter to audio ;)

Here is a list (http://www.mmgca.com/ferrite.htm) with at least 20 grades I can think of that are missing :eyebrows:


It shouldn't matter how close the cable is wound to the ferrite in question, you'll end up with the very same inductance which is what is making the thing a low pass filter :cool:

Marco
08-03-2012, 00:20
Interesting info, Mark - thanks for that, dude! :cool:

Marco.