View Full Version : Which would you keep?
jazzpiano
20-02-2012, 17:11
If you had to choose b/w them, which would you keep, your hi-fi or your music collection? And, why. (Please no comments like "What good's a music collection without a hi-fi?", or vice-versa. You can sort out what's missing later...)
Best,
Barry
:mental:
Music every time - been there and done it many times...
Without even having to bat an eyelid, it would be my music collection.
Most of my kit could be replaced (even some of the highly bespoke stuff I own), but much of my precious music collection couldn't! :)
You may find that folks with file-based systems have a slightly different take on this ;)
Marco.
Dominic Harper
20-02-2012, 18:26
Thats like saying your b***s or your c**k. Sorry to be rude lolololol:lol:
Dom
If you've only got little ones, Dom (so Natalie says), I guess it matters less! :D
;)
Marco.
It's a bit of a silly question but if I had to start again I'd keep my music. You can always rebuild a system, but a system without music is a bit like a car without fuel.
That's kind of a redundant question isn't it - music of course, it's the only reason I have a Hi-Fi, or am I missing something :scratch:
Rare Bird
20-02-2012, 18:56
Considering it's cost me so much money & Grief to get the equipment i have to mint condition. dump the music for me...
Dominic Harper
20-02-2012, 20:02
I have nevered told you anything about that, you little rudey lol:lol:, but your right about one thing if you have got special edition vinyl that you just cannot buy anymore, it would be pretty difficult to choose between vinyl and your hifi. Dom keeps all his vinyl in sealed containers in the garage, so that tells me some of his unreplaceable vinyl is just that unreplaceable. Although, I think he would be very upset if he had to give up any of his turntables.
Natalie;)
I'd dump them both - they are just "things'" after all.
Andrew
For me, my favourite music is much more than just simply a 'thing'... It's a big part of what makes me who I am.
Marco.
bobbasrah
20-02-2012, 21:12
Once the last of my vinyl is transcribed to digital, I would be happy to ditch my entire LP and CD collection, forever chased into purgatory by suits claiming breaching breach of copyright due to no longer having the originals.... I can always update the audio to a post-war less non-revealing system later...
I have no paranoia with computers nor sentimental attachments to the medium, only the music, so can this way have my cake and eat it, so to speak.....
The Grand Wazoo
20-02-2012, 21:19
... It's a big part of what makes me who I am.
Absotively & posolutely.
The gear is just the key that opens the door. What's on the other side of the door is magical.
Hi Bob,
I have no paranoia with computers nor sentimental attachments to the medium...
What about the tactility of the physical media itself?
Music aside, for me one of the attractions of vinyl is handling the (often) beautiful gatefold sleeves, enjoying the artwork and reading interesting information pertinent to the music and artist(s) one is listening to.
I love lying back on the sofa, sipping a nice glass of wine, doing just that, whilst listening to my favourite records. Not having access to the physical media in that way would, for me, greatly devalue the whole music listening experience.
Marco.
Jac Hawk
20-02-2012, 21:28
in my view the older you get, the harder it is to replace a particular LP CD or tape, especially if it was never main stream to begin with, where as you can always get a new stereo ;)
Think that sums it up:cool:
philsparks
20-02-2012, 21:34
definitely the vinyl - the stuff I bought in the 70s & 80s has such strong memories. I have mental pictures of the records lying all over the floor in my uni-digs, or of heading off to the old Sound Org (Cathedral St) with a sainsburys bag containing FGTH Pleasuredome etc.
I don't really have anything like the same attachment to the CDs.
Phil
Pete The Cat
20-02-2012, 21:36
Another vote for the music. It's like a diary, particularly the records that I bought in the 70s and 80s. I can remember where I bought them, the bus journeys or long walks to get to the shops, the weekends away in other towns when I found them, the friends I was with, the weather, the hopes and fears of the time, everything really...
I even have some of the bags (farewell Adrians and Selectadisc) and the price stickers are on some of the sleeves. £2.99 for Queen II in Woollies, was it all a dream ?
Pete
Jac Hawk
20-02-2012, 21:37
Considering it's cost me so much money & Grief to get the equipment i have to mint condition. dump the music for me...
I've been there mate when the ex dumped all my LP's and stereo, now i've got hi fi gear all over the house, but the LP's that were skipped have been more difficult to get either because they aren't available, the second hand copy you buy is so worn to a point of being unplayable or ridiculously expensive.
Trust me you can ALWAYS get a new hi fi;)
Jac Hawk
20-02-2012, 21:42
Music aside, for me one of the attractions of vinyl is handling the (often) beautiful gatefold sleeves, enjoying the artwork and reading interesting information pertinent to the music and artist(s) one is listening to.
I love lying back on the sofa, sipping a nice glass of wine, doing just that, whilst listening to my favourite records. Not having access to the physical media in that way would, for me, greatly devalue the whole music listening experience.
Marco.
That sums it up Marco ;) and is probably why they have never been able to kill vinyl off, it's not just the music, it's the whole experience
bobbasrah
20-02-2012, 21:47
Hi Bob,
What about the tactility of the physical media itself?
Music aside, for me one of the attractions of vinyl is handling the (often) beautiful gatefold sleeves, enjoying the artwork and reading interesting information pertinent to the music and artist(s) one is listening to.
I love lying back on the sofa, sipping a nice glass of wine, doing just that, whilst listening to my favourite records. Not having access to the physical media in that way would, for me, greatly devalue the whole music listening experience.
Marco.
Each to their own Marco. The physical link is there should I wish to retrieve it from archive boxes. ;)
I am listening to the music, which is of greater consequence and emotional bond than the object to my senses. :D
I have a world of information to call on beyong the sleeve notes as and when required, and the ability to browse my catalogue at will, glass of Rioja in hand. :eyebrows:
jandl100
20-02-2012, 21:56
Hmm :hmm: ... I find this is actually quite a tricky one for me.
Yes, sure, the whole point is the music, but ....
Umm, I think I'd keep the audio kit and start again with a music collection. A conclusion which surprises me.
.... whilst it is true that my music collection represents a potted history of what it is to be me, by the same token a lot of it is history and doesn't get played much any more cos my tastes (for better and/or worse) have moved on.
Yep ... I'm head over heels in love with the capabilities of my current audio system, and would very much enjoy rebuilding a music collection although I would definitely wish to re-obtain quite a few discs.
An unexpected result to a thought experiment!
Can't believe this thread has reached three pages, when the answer is obvious:
IT'S THE MUSIC THAT MATTERS!
The equipment is just a means to an end.
Even though most of my equipment is 'vintage', all of it is still available from shops selling used gear or on eBay. Many of my LPs are not!
Apropos Jerry's thought provoking post, those items that I know I'll never play again, I give away. Some are nostalgic and get played every so often when I want to have a 'wallow'.
IT'S THE MUSIC THAT MATTERS!
To be fair, the majority of us have been saying that, Barry :)
Hi Bob,
What about the tactility of the physical media itself?
Music aside, for me one of the attractions of vinyl is handling the (often) beautiful gatefold sleeves, enjoying the artwork and reading interesting information pertinent to the music and artist(s) one is listening to.
I love lying back on the sofa, sipping a nice glass of wine, doing just that, whilst listening to my favourite records. Not having access to the physical media in that way would, for me, greatly devalue the whole music listening experience.
Marco.
I'm 100% with you on this one Marco.
Even though it has taken me years to get where I am with my system it is just nuts, bolts and electronics and I would lose it in the blink of an eye to keep my music collection.
All the music I own links me to part of my life. It's far more than the case of something being a good tune. There are memories attached to much of my music and even to the buying experience. I own a CD by Billy Joel entitled Stormfront. This is one of his best albums in my opinion and I enjoy listening to it very much. However when I do listen to it I am reminded of the old boy who sold it to me in 1996. He ran a small secondhand emporium on Heacham High Street in Northwest Norfolk. I discovered his little shop shortly after moving into the village, and considering the fella was in his late 70's, his knowledge of music from days gone by up until the present day was immense. Fully a third of his small shop was reserved for music on all formats and none of it was tat and just about all of it was 'as new'.
I miss the old boy and his shop. On a recent visit back to the village I wasn't surprised to hear he had past away. That was upsetting enough but then I learned that he had been hounded out of the village shortly after I moved out to Kings Lynn by a group of snobby bastards who decided he and his shabby little shop lowered the tone of the village :mad:
Sent from my HTC Desire S using Tapatalk
jandl100
21-02-2012, 07:21
No need to shout, Barry, no need to shout. ;)
Having slept on it, I find that my conclusions remain the same.
In fact, the idea of starting my music collection again actually appeals quite strongly and feels quite exciting!
Right, I'm just about to load up my car with 3000 CDs, 300 LPs, 120 cassettes and 600 minidiscs and I'm off down to the council tip to dump the buggers ....
What a superficially silly, but thought-provoking thread! :thumbsup:
Surely you of all people would enjoy building a new system, Jerry?
jandl100
21-02-2012, 07:42
Sure, but I do that all the time! :D
The idea of starting afresh with music, and perhaps getting to new destinations by exploring new routes, is very appealing.
There are literally millions of musical recordings out there that I'll bet none of us have ever heard.
It goes back to a thread I started a few months ago about us (well, OK, me, but lots of folks agreed) being a bit stuck in our own musical ruts without realising it.
As Barry so redly pronounced, it really is all about the music - and starting again, perhaps with a slightly more open mind, may well be a good way to truly serve the music?
That's just a thought that popped into my head as I was typing this response. I may have to think about it a bit more! .... :)
Like Marco I tend to feel the music I enjoy is part of who I am.
Also my taste has never been mainstream so a lot of my collection would be quite hard to get I have a lot of albums limited to a 1000 pressing I have a few limited to 500 so it just be impossible to replace
I could always build a new system but having to rebuild my music collection would be to hard and painful I have to strong of a emotional bond to it
The Grand Wazoo
21-02-2012, 08:00
It's an interesting thought Jerry, but when I think of the time I've invested in creating my music collection, I shudder to think that it might have been wasted.
Do you think that if you were to start from scratch again, with no prior knowledge of what you now have, you'd end up with a vastly different collection?
jandl100
21-02-2012, 08:05
It's an interesting thought Jerry, but when I think of the time I've invested in creating my music collection, I shudder to think that it might have been wasted.
Well, why would it have been wasted time? Have you not enjoyed the journey?
And how exciting might it be to start out on a new journey! :eek:
Do you think that if you were to start from scratch again, with no prior knowledge of what you now have, you'd end up with a vastly different collection?
You know, I think I might. If I really tried to keep an open mind.
You know sometheing else? I honestly think that we ALL would!
----------------------
I can feel myself getting further and further out on a limb, here, :lol:
The Grand Wazoo
21-02-2012, 08:28
Well, why would it have been wasted time? Have you not enjoyed the journey?
And how exciting might it be to start out on a new journey! :eek:
Yes I have enjoyed the journey immensely. But Jerry, the thing is, I sadly don't have the time or the money to travel it again!
You know, I think I might. If I really tried to keep an open mind.
You know sometheing else? I honestly think that we ALL would!
I can feel myself getting further and further out on a limb, here, :lol:
It would be interesting to find out - the trouble is, you just can't forget what's gone before. I'd expect a lot of the core of my current collection would be reproduced, as they are kind of staples or standards, but the stuff around the periphery, that I listen to once in a blue moon, would be what got replaced for something different.
bobbasrah
21-02-2012, 08:30
As a further thought Marco, I can see that for those who are 100% LP or CD the medium would be priority to be retained as that is the only logical perspective to hold, irrespective of any emotional attachment.
But it also occurs to me that there are a number of perspectives on which this must be based, such as availability of the medium of choice, the recordings themselves, availability of equipment, or indeed the domestic environment, location, etc.. Desert Island with discs and no kit would be a glum fate...
As I have moved around in the last few years, my equipment and library have innevitably but slowly trailed after, and that has probably imparted a differing perspective to your own relatively stable lifestyle.
File based audio is for me a natural progression from the CD form (data storage), whatever or however it's shortfalls may be perceived. Let me give an analogy -
Having spent most of my life rummaging through record plans, maps, as-builts, and files to resolve problems, these conveyed not only information but snapshots of a bygone era in their physical form. Some older plans were almost works of art, painstakingly assembled, and a joy to examine. This format required huge storage areas, and maintenance of filing systems to record details for later retrieval, in itself a laborious task.
GIS, Autocad, etc., now contain all of the required information, including scans of originals, which can be made portable for immediate access to information anywhere. I can carry 2 complete storage rooms of information on an object the size of a book available for instant access and manipulation using a commonplace tool, the computer.
In otherwords, however detached or clinical the format, I can carry my entire musical library in a briefcase to wherever I need to be. That would not be possible in it's original form.
jandl100
21-02-2012, 08:40
Yes I have enjoyed the journey immensely. But Jerry, the thing is, I sadly don't have the time or the money to travel it again!
Well, this is just a thought experiment - I'm not really in the process of loading up my car with all my music to go and junk it!
Does the idea of starting afresh and discovering new things beyond your current musical horizons not appeal at all?
It would be interesting to find out - the trouble is, you just can't forget what's gone before. I'd expect a lot of the core of my current collection would be reproduced, as they are kind of staples or standards, but the stuff around the periphery, that I listen to once in a blue moon, would be what got replaced for something different.
Well, by the sound of it, you need to dig yourself out of the "staples or standards" mainstream rut, Chris. ;)
Only joking :) .... but I do find myself listening to and enjoying things way beyond the "classical music core" that dominated my early years. And I have to say I am enjoying the journey hugely. Each week brings something new and previously unexplored - some of it good, some of it not to my taste, but all of it is interesting.
I feel sure that would be true for any musical genre.
Maybe it's an age-related thing - I've just passed my 56th birthday and with much of the "staples and standards" I feel more than just a touch of 'been there, done that, time for something new'.
I can see why you would want to hear new music, I think we all like discovering new things. However, staples and standards are what get to the heart of our emotions - for each of us, different music does it. I wouldn't want to lose those.
I would estimate that I'd gravitate towards about a third of my collection again and the rest would diverge into new and different things.
Jac Hawk
21-02-2012, 10:28
Being in the situation of having literally to start again with my Vinyl, i have found myself tracking down the LP's I would in the past have played over and over again, in my view i bought the LP again not cos i wanted those tracks again, to be honest if it was just the tunes i could have used spotify and saved a whole load of cash, for me it was owning the vinyl again, and like Marco has said, sitting back with a glass of what you fancy and being able to read the blurb on the cover
griffo104
21-02-2012, 10:39
ditch the hifi, although I'd be holding on to my Orbe until my fingers bled.
My music collection has grown with me during my life, it maps every major event since I was about 16.
How could I get rid of the record my Dad bought me just before he died ? I can't rip that to a computer the object has immense meaning to me, just like the dark, miserable music I listen to at 17, stuck in my dark room going through a (very) acne driven teenage mess.
Or the Lucinda Williams album my other half bought me not long after we met or the Lou Donaldson she bought me for our first Xmas together.
hifi is just an object, your music collection is your life.
Rare Bird
21-02-2012, 10:43
Trust me you can ALWAYS get a new hi fi;)
As mentioned it's took me a considerable amount of time, grief & money to get this vintage kit A1..The music doesnt matter to me one bit anymore, to be honest i listern to no where near as much music i used to & don't care about collections anymore, i'm not really intrested in it too much nowadays.. What i do listern to a lot nowadays is easy to get hold of, so i still stick to keep the gear.
Some people are the reverse in the fact their hi-fi is modern junk (pardon the expression) you wouldnt loose sleep over & can be easily replaceable (people cant keep equipment two mins without farting about anyway) where as their record collections may be as hard to re locate as getting my equipment to the stage it is now..
Which ever ways best for each individual then
their hi-fi is modern junk
:eek: :rfl:
griffo104
21-02-2012, 10:55
Well, this is just a thought experiment - I'm not really in the process of loading up my car with all my music to go and junk it!
Does the idea of starting afresh and discovering new things beyond your current musical horizons not appeal at all?
Well, by the sound of it, you need to dig yourself out of the "staples or standards" mainstream rut, Chris. ;)
Only joking :) .... but I do find myself listening to and enjoying things way beyond the "classical music core" that dominated my early years. And I have to say I am enjoying the journey hugely. Each week brings something new and previously unexplored - some of it good, some of it not to my taste, but all of it is interesting.
I feel sure that would be true for any musical genre.
Maybe it's an age-related thing - I've just passed my 56th birthday and with much of the "staples and standards" I feel more than just a touch of 'been there, done that, time for something new'.
Jerry, have you thought of adding a computer to your listening habits ?
Since having my PS3 hooked up to my hifi with the Music Unlimited service I've found so much new music - all at my finger tips and as you only pay the tenner a month it doesn't really cost you unless you feel like buying the actual product itself.
It's really helped transform my listening habits since doing all this at Xmas.
Nothing better than finding new music you've never heard before and getting that excited feeling of a new discovery.
My music collection has grown with me during my life, it maps every major event since I was about 16.
How could I get rid of the record my Dad bought me just before he died ? I can't rip that to a computer the object has immense meaning to me, just like the dark, miserable music I listen to at 17, stuck in my dark room going through a (very) acne driven teenage mess.
Or the Lucinda Williams album my other half bought me not long after we met or the Lou Donaldson she bought me for our first Xmas together.
hifi is just an object, your music collection is your life.
+1 Top man, Griffo! :exactly:
I think that books also come into the same category, which is why a bloody Kindle will never cut it! :rolleyes:
I think that anyone who feels differently about music quite simply hasn't made an emotional connection with it to the same degree, and so those people will never truly 'get' what our favourite albums mean to us. And it's that emotional connection with our favourite music, which makes the experience of listening to it so special.
In that respect, for me, accessing a 'faceless file' from a computer will never evoke the same emotional response as playing a treasured (and often rare) vinyl record; especially when it has major personal significance, thus the enjoyment of the overall listening experience, and what makes it so special, is devalued.
I've found the responses to this thread fascinating, as it has provided an intriguing insight into who people are (i.e. what makes them 'tick') which may not have otherwise surfaced....
Marco.
griffo104
21-02-2012, 11:14
I think that books also come into the same category, which is why a bloody Kindle will never cut it! :rolleyes:
Hmmmm this is one of my biggest conflicts. I love my books - love them. I love the feel, the smell, the fact the books age with you. I love everything about them.
And then my other half bought me a Kobo for Xmas (WH Smiths version of the the Kindle)
there's no doubt that having one is of great benefit, especially if you travel around a lot, but it does lack that tactile nature of the book. I have to say though that it's won me round and I'll be taking some of by paperbacks down to the charity shop for a clear out but it simply can't replace the great reference books or books with great photos in them.
As a replacement for my Michael Connelly or Ian Rankin then it's fine but replace my big books of the Villa, or the watch books or my art books ? Never gonna happen.
Haselsh1
21-02-2012, 11:15
Easy... my vinyl collection a lot of which is no longer available.
Hmmmm this is one of my biggest conflicts. I love my books - love them. I love the feel, the smell, the fact the books age with you. I love everything about them.
You've just described the emotional connection with our prized possessions that, we as humans, love - and which can NEVER be achieved when one attempts to experience a version of those things, through using a computer. The experience can only ever be 'virtual'; never real.
Whilst I accept that in modern times people's lives have changed, it is *precisely* the dehumanising effect you have just described which I hate (and refuse to embrace) about today's computer-driven, technology obsessed, world.
It's so easy getting sucked into living a life driven by insidious marketing (and in the process technology subconsciously dictating how we live, rather than us using it moderation), to the extent that most folk don't even realise that it's happening to them! :eek:
In effect, we've become a nation of technology tarts. And as such, more robot-like by the day, to the detriment of our ability to function properly as human beings.... One only has to observe the world around us now to see ample evidence of this unfortunate behaviour :rolleyes:
Long may I own the physical and tactile personal possessions which define me as a human being; and most importantly, as an individual. And my treasured physical music collection is one of them.
Marco.
If i had my original vinyl collection from the 70's 80s it would be the hi fi getting lobbed.
As i have only got back into vinyl recently it doesn't hold the same emotional pull as before.
I'am sure it will in 20 years.
I've had to put in a lot of time into searching the web to be able to get a decent setup on a budget of hardly anything.
I could go to a few car boots and buy a job lot of vinyl but to get my system cheap again would be very unlikely.
I can totally understand anyone with an original music collection spanning there lifetime would ditch the hi fi.
Nearly every album i used to have could connect me with a person place and time in my life.
Can't see a download doing that.
griffo104
21-02-2012, 11:32
You've just described the emotional connection with our treasured possessions that, we as humans, love - and which can NEVER be achieved when one attempts to experience a version of the same things, through using a computer.
Whilst I accept that in modern times people's lives have changed, it is *precisely* the dehumanising effect you have just described which I hate (and refuse to embrace) about today's computer-driven, technology obsessed, world.
It's so easy getting sucked into living a life driven by insidious marketing (and in the process technology dictating how we live), to the extent that most folk don't even know that it's happening! :eek:
Long may I own the physical and tactile personal things which make me the human being I am; and most importantly, an individual.
Marco.
Well I've been working in IT since I was 16 (now 41) and I refuse to have a computer in the house. I only have an old one used to sort out the wifi for things such as the BBC iplayer and stuff which my other half likes but it's all done through the PS3 which also doubles up as my bluray player.
So bearing that in mind I think we are on the same page (to a degree:))
Computers are fine and there's no doubt it's helped bring stuff such as serious photography to the masses but somethings should never really be a 'file'.
Computers are fine and there's no doubt it's helped bring stuff such as serious photography to the masses but somethings should never really be a 'file'.
We are most definitely on the same page, amigo! :)
Marco.
Hi Stuart,
I can totally understand anyone with an original music collection spanning there lifetime would ditch the hi fi.
Nearly every album i used to have could connect me with a person place and time in my life.
That's it in a nutshell. Perhaps it's something that the likes of Jerry should consider - how much of his current music collection has been with him during his 56 years on this earth?
Maybe not much, which is why he appears so ready to dispose of it and start again - and perhaps this time round, foster that all-important emotional connection (as referred to above in bold) with his favourite music, which currently seems a little lacking...
Can't see a download doing that.
NEVER!! :nono:
Marco.
Haselsh1
21-02-2012, 12:02
My first girlfriend... 10cc 'I'm Not In Love' from The Original Soundtrack on vinyl.
My first motorbike... Honda CG125 'More Than A Feeling' Boston from the album of the same name on vinyl half speed mastered.
Playing bass in my first band... 'Sweet Home Alabama' again on vinyl.
This is what a posession brings to me. A download... you can keep it thanks, it means sod all.
kininigin
21-02-2012, 13:36
There was a period when i didn't have a tt and i moved around alot.I thought to myself,i don't play them might as well sell them.Even when times were tough,i could never bring myself to do it.Instead they came with me taking up space just sitting there.
So i agree with some here,that it's more than just the music its self,there's memories and feelings that go along with it also.
Whilst I accept that in modern times people's lives have changed, it is *precisely* the dehumanising effect you have just described which I hate (and refuse to embrace) about today's computer-driven, technology obsessed, world.
It's so easy getting sucked into living a life driven by insidious marketing (and in the process technology subconsciously dictating how we live, rather than us using it moderation), to the extent that most folk don't even realise that it's happening to them! :eek:
In effect, we've become a nation of technology tarts, and as such, more robot-like by the day.... :rolleyes:
Long may I own the physical and tactile personal possessions which define me as a human being; and most importantly, as an individual. And my treasured music collection is one of them.
Marco.
While i tend to agree with the points you have made here,i wouldn't go as far as saying computers or technology are dehumanising,but more there implementation can be dehumanising.
If someone makes a piece of music using nothing but computers and it connects with thousands of people,emotionally,socially,spiritually ect,is that dehumanising?
If someone gives an awe inspiring speech or presentation ect,which can motivate people to achieve something better and this can be transmited around the world in a matter of minutes,is this dehumanising?
When i go snowboarding,everyone has harddrives with them full of music.We can swap drives check out each others music,discover new bands ect.When we go to the local bars,we can have such a varied selection of music playing by simply plugging in someones harddrive and then either taking the piss out of there music tastes or getting the whole bar enjoying something they might not of heard before.
This to me is not dehumanising,but in fact the opposite :)
jandl100
21-02-2012, 13:54
Jerry, have you thought of adding a computer to your listening habits ?
Yes, I've thought about it, but it doesn't do it for me.
I've a strong, personal and, I am happy to admit, illogical aversion to connecting a computer to my hifi. It's just not something that I want to do.
... maybe it's something about spending my entire career concerned with aspects of the IT industry! :eyebrows:
The very last thing I want to do at home is feck about with computers! :lol:
bobbasrah
21-02-2012, 13:55
And the original question was.... “If you had to choose b/w them, which would you keep, your hi-fi or your music collection? And, why. “
Although a theoretical question, it does seem to have stirred weighty considerations of the dilemna, and we are all entitled to our individual opinions and justifications, irrespective of what anyone else thinks.
I'm not sure the criticisms of modern technology or personal feelings of others are merited though.
The thought of being surrounded in silence and memorabilia alone would be like one foot in the grave to me.... Imagine the hell of being grateful to see a Bose system.....
Hi Darren,
You make some very good points, all of which I agree with :)
While i tend to agree with the points you have made here,i wouldn't go as far as saying computers or technology are dehumanising,but more there implementation can be dehumanising.
Yes, but for me, any technology which makes us use the God-given skills we were born with LESS, is dehmanising us, and I'll cite some examples of this in a minute.
If someone makes a piece of music using nothing but computers and it connects with thousands of people,emotionally,socially,spiritually ect,is that dehumanising?
Nope; it has precisely the opposite effect, and is simply a valid example (of which there are many) of where technology can enrichen our lives. I own some of that very music on vinyl, which is mostly of the trance/electronic genre, and when I'm in the right mood, it is utterly fantastic!
For me, it comes down to a question of moderation. Almost anything in moderation is good for us in some way; it's when things are taken to extremes and dominate our lives that they become bad.
My view is that technology should be respected and used considerately, in moderation, in areas of our lives where it can make a genuine improvement, during circumstances where solely human intervention cannot achieve the same desired result.
If someone gives an awe inspiring speech or presentation ect,which can motivate people to achieve something better and this can be transmited around the world in a matter of minutes,is this dehumanising?
Nope. It's another valid example where the effect of using technology is good.
When i go snowboarding,everyone has harddrives with them full of music.We can swap drives check out each others music,discover new bands ect.When we go to the local bars,we can have such a varied selection of music playing by simply plugging in someones harddrive and then either taking the piss out of there music tastes or getting the whole bar enjoying something they might not of heard before.
This to me is not dehumanising,but in fact the opposite
Absolutely - and ditto, as per my previous reply.
Technology succeeds in dehumanising us when:
*Children can no longer read, write or communicate properly because mobile phones, texting, and Internet social networking sites have robbed them of the need to use those basic human skills - providing of course that they were taught them properly in the first place, which these days one cannot take as a 'given'.
What state of affairs have we reached when children in the SAME ROOM would rather text each other on mobile phones, in order to 'communicate', than open their mouths and SPEAK??? *That* is the ultimate example of dehumanisation via technology!
*Able-bodied people would rather send emails to friends and/or family than pick up the phone, or (shock, horror!) go and visit them, should they live nearby... Could you imagine a scarier concept than getting off of your backside and moving, or horror of horrors, actually TALKING face-to-face with a fellow human being?? :wowzer:
*On-line shopping is slowly killing the high-streets of our towns by forcing long-established family-run businesses to close their premises because they can't compete financially with heavily discounting on-line retailers.
*People would rather click on a mouse, buying their groceries from supermarket websites and having it delivered to their doors, than getting off of their backsides and physically selecting them from the actual shops where they came from, and taking their groceries home with them instead. No wonder that as a nation we're becoming lazier, more obese and unhealthier than ever!
*We are forced to abandon perfectly good technology, as a result of goods made from older technology being made commercially obsolete, for something inferior that marketing men have decided we should have instead, thus creating an unhealthy obsession with gadgetry, and today's rather horrific 'disposable society'.
I could go on, but hopefully you're getting the picture... ;)
Marco.
The thought of being surrounded in silence and memorabilia alone would be like one foot in the grave to me.... Imagine the hell of being grateful to see a Bose system.....
Bob, don't you have a wife/partner and/or friends and family with whom to share your passions?
If not, then perhaps that's why you feel the way you do. "Being surrounded in silence and memorabilia alone" is far removed from the reality of my life! ;)
Marco.
Well it seems this thread is going to run and run!
Apologies for ‘shouting’ in my post, but it did seem as though the answer to the OP was so dammed obvious that there was no need for discussion.
Yet Jerry’s thought provoking post, which runs against the feelings of most of the responders, is just that: thought provoking and deserves further comment. I still remain convinced that if it were a clear choice between my music collection and my system, it would be the music collection every time. That doesn’t mean I would set out to replace my system with the same items that I had – I would most likely buy ‘new’, modern and well-regarded items of gear. But Jerry is a self confessed ‘box-swapper’ for reasons he eloquently outlined in another thread.
So let’s consider starting out again to build up a music collection. Well, unless struck by an acute case of amnesia (or heaven forbid, a stroke), I would have a memory of my musical history, so would be as likely to include items of those artists and musical genres that I had. Not every thing of course, that would be impossible: many albums are long out of print with little chance of re-issue, and some of them are, with hindsight, of less interest to me than they were. But my tastes would not have changed, so my new collection would not be so different, at least in musical styles.
I am always looking for new music as well as re-discovering music that I had (to my loss) dismissed in my youth: Tamla Motown, soul, and stuff on the Atlantic label for example. AoS’s ‘Spinning Today’ thread is a mine of new listening for me, and is the first thread I visit when I log on. The ‘Album club’ is also a very useful source of ‘new’ music for me. So there would be some different items in my ‘new’ collection, but fundamentally it would not be so very different.
I don’t understand André’s approach whereby the hardware seems to be more important than the software, but I have probably misunderstood his thoughts.
My conviction hasn’t changed, but I would like to thank Jerry for “thinking the unthinkable”, or for “thinking outside the box” – I certainly made me think!
Regarding e-Books, Kindles and the like. I can understand their appeal, but they are not for me. I don’t like reading off a screen and much prefer the tactile experience of printed books (preferably hardback): the feel and yes, the smell. When I travel I’m quite happy to take a couple of paperbacks with me to read whilst waiting at airports. Kindles are stiff, solid and vulnerable, and as I say, I don’t like reading off a screen: never have done. At work I would print off large amounts of text onto paper, rather than read off the screen. So much for the “paperless office”!
kininigin
21-02-2012, 14:25
I could go on, but hopefully you're getting the picture... ;)
Marco.
I get the picture marco :) and fully agree,when technology is used excessively in the way you described.Text speak being
particularly high on my list of the way tech has made people lazy and dumbed down,im no einstein,but i try at least.
In answer to the OP,music first and foremost!
Rare Bird
21-02-2012, 14:47
I don’t understand André’s approach whereby the hardware seems to be more important than the software, but I have probably misunderstood his thoughts.
People change & so do their habbits. Many moons ago when i first got serious about hifi & had so much money i was changing equipment like crazy, there wasnt anything i hadnt had at one point or another, this be the very early 80's. & putting together such a collection of rare LP's i literally had no where to house them. Remember i was still young & all i knew was present time hi-fi components, as i matured i got to reading about vintage Hi-fi,it was different, seemed to have lots more character to what i was presently using.. my love for vintage grew & grew. It got to a stage where actual music too a back seat, from then the music was getting unimportant!
Since my very early intrests in Vintage ive always always had an attraction for the Ferrograph Series Seven Equipment, no other brand apart from the early Castle Acoustics Loudspeakers have had such a prelonged effect on me, a love affair that will no doubt last forever.
You may think i'm crazy but it's taken me six 'F307' amplifiers & nine series seven open reels to get the cosmetic parts together to create the mint items i own today. I could never ever ever part with them.
That clears the hifi bit up & as to why they are so so important to me.
As for music, it's still to this day has less of an intrest to me than my gear does.. i find myself listerning to a lesser & lesser selection of music, what i do listern most of is not the obscure Psych & Prog i so prized within my early collection but the more common garden side (if you like) of the music, hence they are very easy to source.
I'm even considering buying another vintage turntable & sourcing just these records but big collections are no more with me.All other music will be plain old CD on open Reel, I use technology to feed off but dont rely on it as a source. if you get my meaning.
I am a complex mixed up character so bare with me cos i'm crap at putting my thang across in writing :D
Hi Barry,
I don’t like reading off a screen and much prefer the tactile experience of printed books (preferably hardback): the feel and yes, the smell. When I travel I’m quite happy to take a couple of paperbacks with me to read whilst waiting at airports. Kindles are stiff, solid and vulnerable, and as I say, I don’t like reading off a screen: never have done. At work I would print off large amounts of text onto paper, rather than read off the screen.
I can totally relate to that, especially to the bits in bold! The only exception to that is when I'm on here. But what you describe is precisely why I couldn't live with on-line magazines or newspapers, not that I bother with the latter these days, even in a paper format.
Reading reams of text on a screen gets on my nerves, as does typing sometimes on a computer, which is why most of my posts these days are spur-of-the-moment 'bursts', where if possible, I am able to get things off of my chest all in one go. Fortunately, I can type pretty fast and reasonably accurately, and so can rattle off large paragraphs of prose within minutes!
Not being arsed typing is also one of the reasons why instead of replying to PMs, I often ask people to phone me. It's usually much quicker, more effective, and the whole experience is rather more, well, 'human' ;)
Marco.
People change & so do their habbits. Many moons ago when i first got serious about hifi & had so much money i was changing equipment like crazy, there wasnt anything i hadnt had at one point or another, this be the very early 80's. & putting together such a collection of rare LP's i literally had no where to house them. Remember i was still young & all i knew was present time hi-fi components, as i matured i got to reading about vintage Hi-fi,it was different, seemed to have lots more character to what i was presently using.. my love for vintage grew & grew. It got to a stage where actual music too a back seat, from then the music was getting unimportant!
Since my very early intrests in Vintage ive always always had an attraction for the Ferrograph Series Seven Equipment, no other brand apart from the early Castle Acoustics Loudspeakers have had such a prelonged effect on me, a love affair that will no doubt last forever.
You may think i'm crazy but it's taken me six 'F307' amplifiers & nine series seven open reels to get the cosmetic parts together to create the mint items i own today. I could never ever ever part with them.
That clears the hifi bit up & as to why they are so so important to me.
As for music, it's still to this day has less of an intrest to me as my gear does i find myself listerning to lesser & lesser selection of music, what i do listern most of is not the obscure Psych & Prog i so prized within my early collection but the more common garden side (if you like) of the music, hence they are very easy to source.
I'm even considering buying another vintage turntable & sourcing just these records but big collections are no more with me.All other music will be plain old CD on open Reel, I use technology to feed off but dont rely on it as a source. if you get my meaning.
I am a complex mixed up character so bear with me :D
Excellent insight, dude, into the reasons why you make your decisions. So thanks for sharing. It's always good to know what makes people 'tick' :)
Marco.
Hi André,
Thanks for your reply - I understand now. With all the time and effort you have put into restoring 'vintage' gear, especially Ferrographs, I can now understand the vested interest and attachment the gear has for you.
What vintage deck will be going for? Something of the '70s to '80s?
Regards
Rare Bird
21-02-2012, 15:54
Thanks Barry
It would be 60's as Id like my old Transcriptor 'Hyd Ref/10'' Fluid arm/ADC i used to own but the prices are mad on second had market. Again the turntable i fell in love with on first encounter. Being a massive Clockwork Orange fan it be only right :eyebrows:
Thanks Barry
It would be 60's as I'd like my old Transcriptor 'Hyd Ref/10'' Fluid arm/ADC I used to own but the prices are mad on second had market. Again the turntable I fell in love with on first encounter. Being a massive Clockwork Orange fan it be only right :eyebrows:
:lol: I know what you mean!
I have a soft spot for ADC cartridges, especially the 10E Mk. IV and the 25 and 26. I think the Transcriptors Fluid arm has a low enough mass to allow the 25/26 cartridges to run in it. I'm sure Dave (DSJR) will be able to advise.
Regards
PS I like your new 'moniker': what else could it be?
Rare Bird
21-02-2012, 16:18
:eyebrows:
Was the 10E..
jandl100
21-02-2012, 17:01
My conviction hasn’t changed, but I would like to thank Jerry for “thinking the unthinkable”, or for “thinking outside the box” – I certainly made me think!
Well, thanks for that. :) It's often what Marco sets out to do, so Marco and I perhaps have even more in common than we thought. :)
Although I might be about to diverge a bit from him here ....
I've been giving some thought to 'emotional attachment to music'. And I've come to the conclusion that I don't have any.
I play music because I enjoy it, or find it interesting for one reason or another.
I don't keep a recording or an album cos my dear ol' mum (maysherestinpeace) bequeathed it to me on her deathbed, or because it was playing when I had my first shag, or ... well, you get the idea. :eyebrows:
I am free of any such emotional attachments - I can't think of a single example that applies to me.
I just enjoy music for its own sake, and tbh I don't think there is anything wrong with that at all. :) But perhaps it makes it more understandable why I came to the conclusion that I did about the original question posed here.
Hi Barry,
I still remain convinced that if it were a clear choice between my music collection and my system, it would be the music collection every time. That doesn’t mean I would set out to replace my system with the same items that I had – I would most likely buy ‘new’, modern and well-regarded items of gear.
Why? Shouldn't the defining criteria be whatever equipment performs best, sonically, to your ears, regardless of its age?
I would no sooner use all vintage gear, if it sounded pants, compared to the best modern kit, than I would do vice versa! ;)
I'm therefore completely agnostic, in terms of the age of the equipment I would choose to use. For me, sonic performance must always come first, ahead of any romantic feelings of nostalgia, or the desire to own the 'latest toy'.
Marco.
Hi Jerry,
I've been giving some thought to 'emotional attachment to music'. And I've come to the conclusion that I don't have any.
I play music because I enjoy it, or find it interesting for one reason or another.
I don't keep a recording or an album cos my dear ol' mum (maysherestinpeace) bequeathed it to me on her deathbed, or because it was playing when I had my first shag, or ... well, you get the idea. :eyebrows:
Interesting... Don't you own any records which you grew up with listening to as a child, and so for you they have developed a special significance? What music did you grow up with? What music did your parents play at home?
What music did you listen to in your bedroom with your friends, as a teenager? What music did you swap with friends at school?
What music did you choose at your wedding when your wife and you had your first dance? What music would you request be played at your funeral, and why? What would be your chosen 'desert island discs', and why?
Surely any (or all) of what you list, from the above, qualify as being music that you have an emotional attachment to?
As Poirot says, that should get 'the leetle grey cells' going! ;)
Marco.
jandl100
21-02-2012, 19:42
Hi Jerry,
Interesting... Don't you own any records which you grew up with listening to as a child, and so for you they have developed a special significance? No. What music did you grow up with? I have none now that I do not currently enjoy. It has no significance for me beyond that. What music did your parents play at home? Not a lot. My mother liked a bit of romantic opera, I can't stand the stuff.
What music did you listen to in your bedroom with your friends, as a teenager? I have none now that I do not currently enjoy. It has no significance for me beyond that. What music did you swap with friends at school? Ditto.
What music did you choose at your wedding when your wife and you had your first dance? We didn't choose much of anything, nor did we dance! What music would you request be played at your funeral, and why? I've told my wife that she can arrange whatever she sees fit for my funeral. I couldn't give a damn. What would be your chosen 'desert island discs', and why? Choices would be for enjoyment not emotional attachment.
Surely any (or all) of what you list, from the above, qualify as being music that you have an emotional attachment to?
Well they would if I had answered any in the affirmative! :lol: ... you really cannot catch me out, you know! ;) As I said before, I really have given this some thought.
As Poirot says, that should get 'the leetle grey cells' going! ;)
Marco.
:eyebrows:
Sure. But no offence, mate, I can't help but feel some of the answers are a little sad, and also somewhat inconclusive...
Marco.
jandl100
21-02-2012, 19:56
Sure, I'd expect that - we are very different people. I don't feel sad at all ... I have other things that I am emotionally attached to. We're just different, is all. :)
Inconclusive?
Yup - such as your response of "I have none now that I do not currently enjoy", which doesn't relate to nor answer some of questions you were asked.
Would you like me to highlight the questions I'm referring to? :)
I have other things that I am emotionally attached to
Other than the obvious, like loved ones, such as?
Marco.
jandl100
21-02-2012, 20:02
... well, on the Desert Island Disc thing, I might relent a little and select something from Gilbert & Sullivan, which is really the only musical genre that the missus and I enjoy together. :)
jandl100
21-02-2012, 20:04
Yup - such as your response of "I have none now that I do not currently enjoy", which doesn't relate to nor answer some of questions you were asked.
Would you like me to highlight the questions I'm referring to? :)
Other than the obvious, like loved ones, such as?
Marco.
Ah, -- hmm. I think that my response is an appropriate one for the questions. I don't understand the issue you raise. So yes, feel free to highlight and explain the text accordingly.
Okies... I asked:
What music did you grow up with?
You replied:
I have none now that I do not currently enjoy.
The answer is either none, or a list of the relevant music. Your reply doesn't really make sense.
I also asked:
What music did you listen to in your bedroom with your friends, as a teenager?
You replied (yet again):
I have none now that I do not currently enjoy.
...which again doesn't make much sense. The correct reply, as before, would be none, or a list of some of the relevant music. For me, it looks as if you're trying to hide something...
Btw, I'm not getting at you here; merely trying to understand properly where you're coming from :cool:
Marco.
jandl100
21-02-2012, 20:16
The answer is either none, or a list of the relevant music. Your reply doesn't really make sense.
Yep, no problem. I'm not feeling got at. I've not really looked at my music collection from this perspective before, but because of this thread I have now been thinking about it.
OK - I was being a bit lazy - perhaps.
I could list all the music me and my schoolmates used to enjoy together (a long list) and then point out that the ones I still have (e.g. Supertramp Crime of the Century) I only have because I still enjoy them.
I thought the short response is fine - unless you want me to 'prove' item by item that I only have stuff that I like in my collection and that I don't have any stuff that I no longer enjoy but only keep cos my old schoolmate Graham liked it. I don't have any of that - honest!
Does that answer your questions now? :scratch:
Well, the clarification certainly provides more insight into your 'music history' than the first answers you gave did! ;)
Supertramp's 'Crime of the Century', from what you say, would appear to qualify as music that you have *some* emotional connection with, particularly as it's the first time I've noticed you mention music, with some fondness, that is not classical in genre.
Marco.
jandl100
21-02-2012, 20:26
I just like the music in Crime of the Century - there is nothing whatsoever in that choice beyond that.
I think you are failing to see things from a perspective other than your own! ;)
Not everyone has the same outlook as you. :)
Yes, I listen to a fair bit of non-classical - Nazareth, Dougie McClean, Loreena McKennit, The Buggles ... etc etc. All are important to me because I like or am emotionally involved by the music. That's all there is to it! :lol:
That's fine, but it's the first time I've seen you mention any of that type of music on AoS.
It certainly never appears in the relevant 'Spinning Today' thread, as you only contribute to the classical one...
Anyway, thanks for the info. In that respect, we are indeed very different, which I guess is what makes the world go round! ;)
Marco.
jandl100
21-02-2012, 20:47
That's fine, but it's the first time I've seen you mention any of that music.
It certainly never appears in the relevant 'Spinning Today' thread, as you only contribute to the classical one...
Well, I feel sure that you will correct me if you think I have this wrong (!), but by & large the non-classical spinning today just tends to be lists of things played with no discussion. :zzz: ... yes, I know there are exceptions, but by and large I think that's true.
I've struggled quite hard in the classical spinning today thread to make it a centre for discussion & involvement, and personally I think that works well. :)
StanleyB
21-02-2012, 20:50
Yes, I listen to a fair bit of non-classical - Nazareth
Jeez, that's taking me back to 1973.
jandl100
21-02-2012, 20:56
Nazareth ...
Jeez, that's taking me back to 1973.
Hair of the Dog :guitar::rock::hairmetal:
That's fine, Jerry - I get that.
Well, I feel sure that you will correct me if you think I have this wrong (!), but by & large the non-classical spinning today just tends to be lists of things played with no discussion.
In reality, it's more a mixture of both. Some folks like to extrapolate on their listening choices, and have the skills to do that job rather well.
Others, such as me, (in general) mostly just listen to 'choons' that make us smile and feel happy (nothing much deeper or more 'meaningful' than that); therefore a list of some of the music I've been listening to recently, suffices. In that respect, I'm a simple soul.
Bear in mind also that, as I work from home, I can spend 8-10 hours a day listening to music, and so I play more albums in a day than I could ever hope to discuss here in a meaningful way.
And anyway, the thought of 'intellectualising' my music listening fills me with horror - probably as much as it does you trying to identify what you have an emotional connection with! :D
Marco.
Hi Barry,
Why? Shouldn't the defining criteria be whatever equipment performs best, sonically, to your ears, regardless of its age?
I would no sooner use all vintage gear, if it sounded pants, compared to the best modern kit, than I would do vice versa! ;)
I'm therefore completely agnostic, in terms of the age of the equipment I would choose to use. For me, sonic performance must always come first, ahead of any romantic feelings of nostalgia, or the desire to own the 'latest toy'.
Marco.
Most of my equipment is 'vintage' because it was bought some time ago at a price I could then afford at the time. I rarely audition new gear these days because, with few exceptions, I cannot afford the thousands of pounds usually asked, so there doesn't seem much point.
I do attend the occasional hi-fi show and get an opportunity to hear some new gear, though not necessarily under the best of conditions. Stuff I like is always way out of my price range.
Vintage gear is now becoming so expensive and rare, that I would most likely seek out used, second-hand samples of 'new' products that do sound good to my ears. It pains me to say this, but some of these can be found on eBay for a reasonable price if you are patient and keep your eyes open.
It has nothing to do with "owning the latest toy", although I do believe that significant advances have been made in some areas: small stand-mounted speakers for example.
jandl100
22-02-2012, 06:41
That's fine, Jerry - I get that.
In reality, it's more a mixture of both. Some folks like to extrapolate on their listening choices, and have the skills to do that job rather well.
Others, such as me, (in general) mostly just listen to 'choons' that make us smile and feel happy (nothing much deeper or more 'meaningful' than that); therefore a list of some of the music I've been listening to recently, suffices. In that respect, I'm a simple soul.
Bear in mind also that, as I work from home, I can spend 8-10 hours a day listening to music, and so I play more albums in a day than I could ever hope to discuss in a meaningful way.
And anyway, the thought of 'intellectualising' my music listening fills me with horror - probably as much as it does you trying to identify what you have an emotional connection with! :D
Marco.
Yep, more differences between us!
"Intellectualising" well, not really. Sure, some folks do, a bit, some folks don't.
But just a title or an image of an album cover provides me with no useful information at all. If you like something, then why not share the joy and try and explain why so others may be tempted to try it?
Would I like it? Should I get it for myself? ... no information provided by a mere title, none at all. So I can't be arsed to involve myself, tbh!
Anyway, enough of my sermonising! :lol:
Sure, I getcha. A lot of the stuff I listen to people will know anyway, so it needs no introduction, but if it's something more obscure I'll sometimes add a few lines describing what it is. In that sense, simply listing the music you're listening to can spark someone else into perhaps playing the same album that they haven't listened to in ages, making them 'rediscover' it in the process, which is a good thing :)
By "intellectualising" my music listening I mean the way that people sometimes describe what they're hearing as being in the style of so-and-so from such-and-such a band from 30 years ago, or something (you might do a similar thing with conductors or composers), using flowery prose in the process that one would find in the likes of Mojo - that ain't me. I'm also no music 'geek' or historian.
It always amazes me the kind of 'Top Trumps', near-encyclopaedic knowledge of music that some people have...
For example, I could never meaningfully participate in threads in the music room, such as 'The Lyrics Thread' or 'Degrees of Separation', simply because a) I rarely pay attention to or absorb the lyrics in songs (I'm simply a 'tunes and rhythms' man), so in that respect I wouldn't have a clue, and b) because I don't possess the necessary historical knowledge to participate in the latter, in the way the likes of Barry, Nick, Chris or Alex can - and indeed enjoy doing. And I respect their knowledge.
Quite honestly, I couldn't tell you who the members are of half of the bands that I listen to, or who they once may have played with, or what 'style' of guitar playing a particular guitarist has in comparison with another. I just don't 'connect' with music on that level. I have a certain amount of musical knowledge, based on what has 'stuck' over the years, but I simply can't engage in the level of in-depth analysis that some people are capable of.
I simply play stuff I like and groove along to it, perhaps if it's music from the 80s that I grew up with, reminiscing about what I was doing 'back in the day', when a particular song is playing, without needing to search for any 'deeper meaning' from the experience, or entering into any more detail about it than that. That's why you'll never read any 'epistles' from me on the subject of music: I just do my own thing quietly and get on with it.
And as for classical music, I simply don't know enough about it to describe what I'm listening to in a meaningful way. I just know what I like when I hear it (Shostakovich, for example), and so I just play that and enjoy it on an informal, fairly superficial, 'non-intellectually taxing', way! :cool:
I do listen to many hours of different music every day, though. I simply couldn't live without it.
Marco.
jandl100
22-02-2012, 08:02
Fair enough, Marco. All good points. :)
But the different approaches to hifi and music are very noticeable!!
Absolutely - and all are valid. Thank goodness we're all different, otherwise it would be a very boring world! :D
Marco.
griffo104
22-02-2012, 10:24
Nothing wrong with discussing or intellectualising music.
I think the the reason you get more discussion on the classical blog may be down to the many different versions of a piece and conductor/orchestra combos that people tend to prefer.
In the non-classical section it's a bit like discussing cover versions - it just doesn't really happen when listening to a rock or indie album.
I love chatting about music, it's why I enjoy seeing what different people listen to in the album club and why they listen to it - so there is that discussion but it's much more formal.
Having had the pleasure of visiting Jerry and listening to his hifi AND his music and seeing his reaction to some of it, there's definitely a fair amount of passion going on there :D (and some pain when my Art Blakey was going on as well).
Nothing wrong with discussing or intellectualising music.
Indeed not, if that's your 'thang'. The latter, however, doesn't interest me one iota; in fact it can quite often bore me to tears, especially when snobbery or elitism rears its ugly head! :rolleyes:
I've always preferred listening to music than talking about it. I'll talk about hi-fi until the cows come home, but then I've 'studied' that subject more. I don't study music; I simply play it and immerse myself in it my own way, gleaning from it what I will, in the process. Whatever sticks, sticks, and whatever doesn't, doesn't.
I love chatting about music, it's why I enjoy seeing what different people listen to in the album club and why they listen to it - so there is that discussion but it's much more formal.
I do too, up to a certain point, but it has to be about music I can relate to or stuff I would be interested in. However, I'm much more of the 'play it, enjoy it and shut up' school of musical appreciation! :eyebrows:
Having had the pleasure of visiting Jerry and listening to his hifi AND his music and seeing his reaction to some of it, there's definitely a fair amount of passion going on there :D (and some pain when my Art Blakey was going on as well).
Lol... No doubt old Jezza lurves his choons!
Marco.
griffo104
22-02-2012, 10:40
I do too, up to a certain point, and it has to be with music I can relate to. However, I'm much more of the 'play it, enjoy it and shut up' school of musical appreciation! :eyebrows:
Relating to music is difficult thing. I started off as a teenage metal head but over the years my love of classical and jazz has made me realise that sometimes you really need to hear something new to expand your musical horizons.
going back to when I was younger - say about 25 - if someone told me I'd have a few hundred classical recordings I'd have had a good laugh at them but things change and sometimes you just hear a piece which triggers something off in you - in my case with classical it was Shotakovish and subsequently reading about him and his music and Stalin (I was reading a lot of Marx and Engels at the time so the whole Communist thing interested me).
I've had a problem with films. Having watched some very serious cinema in my formative years it became very easy to dismiss a lot of Hollywood as being cheap and having no real depth to it. It became to a point where it was pure snobbery on my part. I still enjoy serious cinema but I've learnt to switch off and enjoy a good action film for what it is (I still struggle with some of the crude stuff they regard as comedy though at the moment).
I can understand how it's easy to dismiss some music as it's not your 'thing' but every now and again your 'thing' gets readjusted :eyebrows:
jandl100
22-02-2012, 11:15
Indeed not, if that's your 'thang'. The latter, however, doesn't interest me one iota; in fact it can quite often bore me to tears, especially when snobbery rears its ugly head! :rolleyes:
Well, some folks can get snobbish about anything ... music or hifi or anything else.
Sensible folks just like to have a friendly and informative chat and exchange views and information about things they are passionate about. :)
Hi Griffo,
I've had a problem with films. Having watched some very serious cinema in my formative years it became very easy to dismiss a lot of Hollywood as being cheap and having no real depth to it. It became to a point where it was pure snobbery on my part. I still enjoy serious cinema but I've learnt to switch off and enjoy a good action film for what it is (I still struggle with some of the crude stuff they regard as comedy though at the moment).
It's interesting that you say should that, and I know exactly what you mean. I would never judge or condemn anyone for what films or music that they enjoy. However, it's the snob-factor/elitist aspect you mention with music or films (or indeed, as Jerry says, it can also apply to many things) which turns me right off. As a wine connoisseur, for example, I often encounter those unfortunate traits in aspiring 'wine buffs'.
With regard to films, there's nothing more boring for me than listening to a bunch of bow-tied 'luvvies', pretending to be Barry Norman, critiquing some obscure French film, and chuntering on about the complexity of the plot, dialogue used, or its 'production value' - often simply for effect, in a futile attempt at being clever. For me, that is serious yawnsville, not to mention pathetic! :rolleyes:
Even though I can both write and speak French to a reasonably high standard (Italian fluently), and so don't always need subtitles, I would rather spend the time bottling my botty burps, than sitting through much of that, IMO, pretentious foreign film shite. Some French films, however, can be quite good. I very much enjoyed Amélie, for example. But for me, they are few and far between.
Nope, generally when it comes to films, I have simple tastes. Give me a good black comedy, thriller, war film, western, science fiction or horror movie (not really the gory stuff, based on thrills from special effects, but the really dark psychological shit that fucks with your head) any day!!
When I indulge in recreational activities, such as watching films, I like to relax, chill-out and be entertained informally, not 'intellectually challenged' or participating in exercises in academia - and the same applies when I'm listening to music :)
Marco.
griffo104
22-02-2012, 12:29
I quite enjoy listening, reading or watching something challenging that can make me think (Tarkovsky's wonderful films for instance) but you have to know where to draw the line between listening to something challenging simply for the sake of it being challenging - there's only so many times you can listen to Schoenberg before you realise not only is it challenging but it's bloody boring as well :mental:
tha same can be said of that great work of literature Joyce's Ulysses. you read it for the challenge, but would you read it to entertain yourself ? I'm sure some would, personally that's the line in the sand for me - Pynchon is just as challenging and far more entertaining, imo.
there's only so many times you can listen to Schoenberg before you realise not only is it challenging but it's bloody boring as well :mental:
LOL - I hear you. Then again, I like Ligeti which some would find difficult. Or Portishead, for that matter. Each to their own.
griffo104
22-02-2012, 14:18
LOL - I hear you. Then again, I like Ligeti which some would find difficult. Or Portishead, for that matter. Each to their own.
I like Portishead (their last album was sublime) and Ligeti too :D
I'm unfamiliar with Ligeti... Could someone point me to examples of his best work? :)
Marco.
If you had to choose b/w them, which would you keep, your hi-fi or your music collection? And, why. (Please no comments like "What good's a music collection without a hi-fi?", or vice-versa. You can sort out what's missing later...)
I'd say 'the musc', but having said that, I know my favourite recordings so well I can play them in my head anyway (and they often sound better that way).
I'm unfamiliar with Ligeti... Could someone point me to examples of his best work? :)
His Requiem. It is quite unlike anything you've ever heard. Mesmerising and quite disturbing in places.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ligeti-Requiem-Aventures-Nouvelles/dp/B000025QZQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1329934649&sr=8-1
Cheers, Martin. I'll check it out. From your description, it sounds like my sort of thing :)
Marco.
Yes, I listen to a fair bit of non-classical - Nazareth,
:rock:
Rock on, Jerry.
:fingers::fingers::fingers:
jandl100
22-02-2012, 22:25
I'm unfamiliar with Ligeti... Could someone point me to examples of his best work? :)
Marco.
Quite a lot, including parts of the Requiem, were used in the soundtrack to 2001 A Space Odyssey. :) Wonderfully eerie stuff!
Eerie, I like! I suspect that I'm about to become a Ligeti fan :D
Marco.
realysm42
22-02-2012, 23:04
I can't really answer this. There's no way I could afford to start my sytem again from scratch, but my music collection is cd as well as tapes that just can't be replaced anymore.
90 tape packs of drum and bass raves (each with atleast 8 tapes inside). Might sound like Hell to some but it's my youth chronicled; I'm so glad I kept them, even when they were "no longer cool" to own :D
90 tape packs of drum and bass raves (each with atleast 8 tapes inside). Might sound like Hell to some but it's my youth chronicled
"My youth chronicled". That's an excellent way of putting it, Martin!
I feel *exactly* the same way about my 80s albums and 7" and 12" singles, the latter of which I have many hundreds. I also have quite a few blank tapes with 80s music compilations recorded on them from vinyl-based systems I used 'back in the day'. Those are also precious to me :)
Marco.
jandl100
23-02-2012, 16:04
I dunno ... all these people who live in the past ... :eyebrows:
Lol... It's not a case of living in the past; it's a case of having a past worth sometimes fondly remembering and recognising! ;)
And acknowledging that certain music is a BIG part of that past and also who you are now.
Marco.
jandl100
24-02-2012, 08:04
I guess my memory works more in a non-associative way, at least as far as music goes.
Whilst I fondly (or otherwise) recall events from the past I don't really link them with any musical associations.
I listen to music purely for its own sake and have no emotional attachments beyond those raised by the music itself as I listen to it or recall it.
It's an interesting topic in how it shows up quite major differences in outlook. :)
I listen to music purely for its own sake and have no emotional attachments beyond those raised by the music itself as I listen to it or recall it.
I think on reflection that I fall into this camp, Jerry. Yes, sometimes music reminds me of an event in my past, but mostly I do enjoy the music for its composition and sound, the emotion being directly generated.
Like I said, it's good that we're all different.
I've just got loads of very happy memories of my childhood and teenage years, especially in terms of how certain music impacted on that, which has undoubtedly shaped who I am today, hence why I've acknowledged it here :)
Marco.
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