Speaker i.d please

[istari_knight]

Can anyone i.d these speakers for me ?

I know they are SD acoustics but haven't a clue which model. Hopefully picking them up at the weekend :eyebrows:

[hifi_dave]

I don't recognise those as SD. Any more clues ?

[istari_knight]

Hmm I couldn't find anything similar on google...Maybe a one off or something :scratch:

Hopefully not a case of mistaken identity!

[hifi_dave]

OK, got it now with the other shots.

I think you'll find it's one of the versions of the SD1. It went through several changes, which I couldn't keep up with but it was good in it's days.

[Darren]

Really Dave? All the SD1's I've seen have had open midrange/ tweeter structures. Are these a very early pair?

[istari_knight]

OK, got it now with the other shots.

I think you'll find it's one of the versions of the SD1. It went through several changes, which I couldn't keep up with but it was good in it's days.

Cool thanks for that, I was beginning to worry I'd bought a pair of lemons!

I'll update once I've got them home... need a little tlc by the look of it :)

[istari_knight]

OK, got it now with the other shots.

I think you'll find it's one of the versions of the SD1. It went through several changes, which I couldn't keep up with but it was good in it's days.

S/N state 358A / 358B so could be... I dunno !

[hifi_dave]

Really Dave? All the SD1's I've seen have had open midrange/ tweeter structures. Are these a very early pair?

I can't remember the original pair we had, all I recall was that they were big and ugly and the grille frames fell apart when we moved them around. I'm pretty certain they had a 12 inch bass driver as in the SD2.

The second pair were smaller and easier to move around but they had lost the magic of the original SD1. The pair pictured do look a bit like the these.

[The Grand Wazoo]

Nope, sorry chaps,that ain't no pair of SD1's, not by a long chalk.
It's a bodge up.
Someone's taken the bass box from a pair of OBS's like these of mine (note the black ash trim section):

http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/5710/imgp0207.jpg

They've turned it by 90 deg. so the drivers fire sideways & then they've stuck an early SD2 on top. The SD2 was a stand mount - which didn't have 12" drivers in them Dave. The biggest driver Steen used at that time was in the SD1.

[The Grand Wazoo]

In the second photo on post #3, you can see a diagonal strip of unfinished MDF, where the open baffle had been mounted on top of the bass cabinet.

[istari_knight]

Oh dear!

Well all I can say is thank you for saving me from wasting my money :doh:

Suppose I better let the seller know I wont be buying....

[The Grand Wazoo]

I have to correct myself.
The top half is an SD3, I think - they were a little smaller than the 2 (both standmounts though). The 3's were about £400 & the OBS's were £800 in the early 90's.
The OBS's are superb - I bought mine new & still have them. The 3's were rather flawed though, and it was a crime to marry the two up!

I'd let someone else take them if I were you

[istari_knight]

Thanks for clarifying that, think I'll stick to me castles for now then :)

[The Grand Wazoo]

You're welcome!
I'm even beginning to doubt now, whether the top part is an SD speaker at all - I can't decide.
How much was the seller asking, if you don't mind me being nosey?

[istari_knight]

£100 was the agreed amount. Would have been fair if they were the real deal needing a refoam.

[The Grand Wazoo]

Whoever bastardised these made them into a proper arse-biscuit, if you don't mind me saying.
Have you noticed how they aren't even properly 'handed'? The bass drivers fire out of the left hand side of the cabinet ......on both the left hand channel and the right hand channel. How are you going to get a proper stereo image like that? If there was one thing the OBS's did an incredible job at, it was holographic imaging - what a waste!
They won't even look right because the trim panels will both be on the left hand side & the base plinths will stick out to the right.


Just a note about the serial nos. - mine are 319 - Date: 9/11/90

[nat8808]

Ah, but "you can't get stereo with bass" ..... is what people with subs will try to tell you.

[hifi_dave]

The SD2 was the first speaker that Steen introduced. I remember him bringing a pair over one Saturday afternoon when we up to our ears in demo's, as was normal back then. We fired them up when we had a spare five minutes and promptly sold two pairs whilst demo'ing the 12 inch single of Relax. Those were the days.

The SD2 had a large driver for the time but it might have been 10 inch and not 12 inch. They were in large, almost cube shaped cabinets. They became our Saturday afternoon speaker of choice.

The SD1 came later and was a big ol' lump. Memory fails me about the construction or drivers but the original model was soon replaced by a smaller SD1 which wasn't as good. They did hold together better when moved around, so they were lighter as I recall.

Steen used to practically live in the shop, forever tinkering around and playing with new ideas like the full range ribbon made out of kitchen foil. So many models came and went that I'm not sure which went into production and which were a one-off.

Steen was a very clever and innovative designer, it's a pity he isn't with us now.

[Rare Bird]

think I'll stick to me castles for now then :)

Nice any pickies of the 'Conway II'?

[istari_knight]

Nice any pickies of the 'Conway II'?


I didnt but have just taken a quick one for you... Please excuse the flooring, still waiting on carpets :cool:

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c129/istari_knight9/DSC00858.jpg

They are dated '82 finished & in cherrywood veneer and sound lovely with that warm euphoric sound castle mastered.

I have lots of information on the conway range from a chap called Andy (designer@castle pre-takeover) I can post it if its of interest ?

[istari_knight]

Thought I might as well post it anyway...

"It took 18 months to design the original 45 linternal litre Conway II cabinet, the best construction which was used in the Conway IIA/III which was using a carcass of Chipboard and MDF for the front and back baffles. (Chipboard had no end of consistancy problems - the most consistant at the time was from Ireland)

It would also be prudent to mention that not only was the midrange tube effectively used as a sealed box loudspeaker but also a form of strengthening/reducing internal refelctions. The bamf in the tube which was used on the later models was far superior to the orginal foam.

The top cavity (can be seen if you remove the treble) was again tuned using a combination of thickness of baffle to adjust the throat, and type of foam, constriction of foam as well as the cavity to reduce the peak in the sound pressure level near the cut off frequency (memory fails me to the exact frequency), also the cross bars where essential to deaden the vibrations of the side walls. Various combinations were used in the prototype, from 1/2 to a cut out panel with four holes.

The conway IIA Cabinet was slimar and was designed to take into consideration the improvements I made on the drive units. There was no change in part numbers 06.08 for the Bass unit, 07.01 for the midrange unit and 08.05 for the original 12 ohm treble unit - the crossover there was no varation bar to replace the fuses with the CASTEK or more correctly the PTC devices - RDE 090 (Bass) RDE 070 (Midrange) and RDE 050 (Treble) - I still have ample of these in stock.

These were fitted as standard on the Conway III and some later models of the Conway IIA - it would be prudent to mention that if you have a fused version and the fuse trips - cease using untill a replacement fuse is fitted (particularly the treble). The crossover board had the fuse fitted on the output of the crossover instead off the input (all models after the Conway II had the inputs fused) - If the fuse blows the result was a multiplication circuit which would cause the treble inductor to overheat and exceed the voltage rating on the Low Loss Capacitor.

The Conway II cabinet really needed a stand, this was addressed on the Conway IIA/III

As regards the drive units - the cabinet was designed first to get a flat as possible response first - then the drive units were designed. This was always my way and castle ways design out the problems with the cabinet and then units - not buy in the units and then design the cabinets to fit! as most of the manufacturers did.

We were very proud that everthing we did was made in house, where ever possible, using material sourced in the UK (alas in the last decade we had to source individual components from abroad - diecast chassis - "T" poles etc as we could not obtain them at the quality or cost need to survive.


- OK the original basis was the Conway I bass unit 06.02 but suffered from being too sensitive and was reduced down to the 86dB for 1 wat input.

Hence the reason for the 12 ohm treble unit -was fundamentally the same as the 8 ohm version but used finer wire. The early versions due to production inconsistances (resolved by using an aluminium weighting ring instead of an steel one) had a larger tolerance band than designed with a peak at 15-22.5 KHz, this was resolved for all castle trebles at the time by changing to Mackrofol N and a better controlled moulding tools, and consistance in volume of ferro fluid inserted into the gap prior to the coil being fitted. The ferro fluid did increase the power handling from a nominal 5 watts to 22 watts!

The midrange unit was brand new to the Conway II with an 11cm diecast chassis and indeed took the longest time to design and indeed is probably to most open to variation due to room temperature and humidity (optimum was 20 C) frequency response variations were observed in China.

The crossover incidentially was the same for the Conway II/IIA/III and Howard II (not the S2) The Howard also used the same treble unit and midrange unit but had 2 x 12 ohm bass units.

The foam surrounds were upgraded to rubber surrounds in 1981 (Metflex) although open to temperature varations was a considerableimprovement.

Bar surround failures the other problem that did occasionally occur was pig tail wire fractures at the cone.

The later units had a Kapton voice coil but not until 2000

On the midrange unit if the surround in purple it is Triafol B or Yellow is Mackrofol N - watch for the surround lifting under the dust dome - can be resealed down with PVA adhesive.

The Conway II baffle was recessed as in line with the Richmond II and Kendal II - Icidentially the Conway II was Launched at the Harrogate Hi-Fi show (those were the days - the whole factory came out)

The Conway IIA had a flat front for refelction purposes the trim at the top and bottom was used to empahsis the wood finish above the foam front and was held on by a strip of 25mm velcro split in to 3 - hence some slight variations in the thickness of the velcro on the front.

I hope that the above is of interest

Andy."

[Rare Bird]

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c129/istari_knight9/DSC00858.jpg

They are dated '82 finished & in cherrywood veneer and sound lovely with that warm euphoric sound castle mastered.



Aye great speakers amazing how different they became to my Mk.1 'Conways'

http://i1146.photobucket.com/albums/o534/ELPFAN1/Howards10002.jpg


Thanks for posting that..

[The Grand Wazoo]

The SD2 was the first speaker that Steen introduced.

Yes, it was a big ugly squat shaped thing and it really sang on low, heavy stands. The SD3 came a little later and was replaced even later with an SD3R (I think) which had a moulded cabinet.

He changed the format of his floorstanders from single big bass drivers to paired up smaller drivers, which I think was a mistake. The SD1's were superb. The OBS's didn't have the bass of their big brothers, but the integration between the three drivers was magical. I owned both & they were both special in their own particular ways. Long term, I ended up falling for the OBS's because of that fantastic image placement.

[jandl100]

SD designs were very much a mixed bag, ime.

I had a pair of SD1, photo below (also in the photo is a much loved pair of Bowers Active Ones) and kept them for quite a while and loved them muchly. I know their new owner also loves them and has tried and failed to upgrade!

But I also heard a pair of smaller SD speakers in the Sevenoaks branch of Sevenoaks Hifi many years ago (25-30+?). They were catastrophically coloured in the mids, and made all vocals sound very nasal - like having Lester Piggott sing to you, the shop floor guys agreed.

So buyer beware with SDs - some are fab, some definitely are not!

Anyhoo - here's my SD1's.

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii114/jandl100/SD1BowersActive.jpg

[istari_knight]

I do remember trying to buy that pair off you a few years ago Jerry but it wasn't meant to be. (I couldn't make it to Franks bakeoff IIRC)

Lovely looking speakers IMO although I'm sure many would disagree!

There is a possibility I may still be able to pick up the arsebiscuits™ for silly cheap (talking under £30) in which case I'll have a play.... Would like to confirm what the standmounts actually are... I know I've seen them somewhere before :scratch:

[jandl100]

Hey, yes, I recall that now, James. :)
Shame you missed out - a remarkable pair of speakers at a remarkable price! - cost me £220 on fleaBay. Re-foamed woofers, A1 nick ... and I thought they looked fab! :eek::drool:

Yep, £30 or less and those arsebiscuits are well worth playing with, I reckon.

[hifi_dave]

The later SD's were full of good ideas but the style and finish killed them off. IMO

We had two pairs of OBS, which we had to practically give away because no one wanted to buy a wide speaker with all the scruffy internals on show. Sounded OK but no buyers.

Then the SD3 with moulded cabinet. Once again, it sounded fine but stunk the place out. I believe we sold two pairs and then had to take them back and resell because the stench of solvents was just toooo much..:eek:

The home-made ribbon definitely sounded promising but never hit the market.

[istari_knight]

Just picked them up :eyebrows:

Bottoms are OBS as we already knew, tops are SD3R... Will give impressions once I've had a listen.

[istari_knight]

These isodynamic/ribbon/thingy tweeters are explicit! :flasher:

I've only ever heard dome/cone tweeters before & now I'm not sure if I can return to them...ever.

Certainly not the finest speakers I've owned by a long chalk (bass is far too lean for my taste) I am however in love with the treble, so many details previously unheard its a bit of a revelation. Apparently they retailed at £399 - I'd say thats good value.

I need to experiment with stands, got a feeling my flimsy 80s richersound specials are holding them back.

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c129/istari_knight9/DSC00982.jpg

[Reid Malenfant]

I didnt but have just taken a quick one for you... Please excuse the flooring, still waiting on carpets :cool:

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c129/istari_knight9/DSC00858.jpg

They are dated '82 finished & in cherrywood veneer and sound lovely with that warm euphoric sound castle mastered.

I have lots of information on the conway range from a chap called Andy (designer@castle pre-takeover) I can post it if its of interest ?
Love those speakers to bits :) A friend of mine had a pair with stands that I assume might be the Conway II/A, he should never have gotten rid of them :doh:

These isodynamic/ribbon/thingy tweeters are explicit! :flasher:

I've only ever heard dome/cone tweeters before & now I'm not sure if I can return to them...ever.

Certainly not the finest speakers I've owned by a long chalk (bass is far too lean for my taste) I am however in love with the treble, so many details previously unheard its a bit of a revelation. Apparently they retailed at £399 - I'd say thats good value.

I need to experiment with stands, got a feeling my flimsy 80s richersound specials are holding them back.

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c129/istari_knight9/DSC00982.jpg
Lack of bass, try adding a decent subwoofer that has control over crossover frequency & phase... Your problems might well be sorted then :)

[istari_knight]

I have tried some REL subs in the past, Storm & Strata.

The storm was total rubbish & while the strata was better it still lagged behind. Have subs come on at all in the last 10 years ?

[Macca]

You could look at Velodyne - they use motion controlled feedback - a mate has 2 of them which is total overkill but they do work. Over a grand each, though. I keep hoping he will fall on hard times and have to sell me one cheap hee hee.

[Reid Malenfant]

You could look at Velodyne - they use motion controlled feedback - a mate has 2 of them which is total overkill but they do work. Over a grand each, though. I keep hoping he will fall on hard times and have to sell me one cheap hee hee.
Good suggestion :) Paradigm also made a few sealed box subs with motional feedback.

Closed boxes are a lot cleaner than reflex enclosures. The problem is is that the port output often extends quite a way into the audio band & it is noticeable.

[alan47]

Have a look at an IPL SW4 from IPL Acoustics.I heard one when i went down to his house to audition speakers.Sounded very good,but i got a pair of his transmission lines in the end,so i didn't need one.

[The Grand Wazoo]

So are there any physical connections between the sd3 bits and the obs bits?

[istari_knight]

Yes there are wires from the OBS woofer out the top of the cabinets that can connect to the SD3 - I only tried this briefly to make sure they work as they both need a refoam.

From what I heard it didn't sound bad, crossover point was a little high but it can be dialed in playing with inductors. Seriously considering rebuilding the OBS "Bottoms" with new mdf, refoaming the drivers, getting the crossover point right & plonking the SD3's on top. Effectively using them as stereo passive subs I suppose...

[istari_knight]

Found the culprit :doh:

Some numpty had fitted 120uf in series with the bass drivers making them roll off early... :mental:

Sounds better now haha

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c129/istari_knight9/DSC00988.jpg