Musical obsessions

[morris_minor]

I'm sure I'm not alone (at least I hope I'm not!) in admitting that there are some pieces of music I'm obsessive about, and just have to collect every possible recording of - even those getting dire reviews.

In my case, the first symphony of William Walton is a prime example of this. I have over twenty different recordings of this, and am still searching for that elusive disc that ticks ALL the boxes of my ideal, imagined, performance. My score is well thumbed, and scribbled over with comments, and the arrogance I exhibit in dismissing the interpretations of acclaimed maestros is, at times, breathtaking. :lol:

Anyone else feel like confessing?

Oh, in case anyone's wondering Previn's 1966 LSO recording for RCA still tops my Walton 1 league table - just ...

[JJack]

Okay, I only have one recording of the Walton, the BBC Music magazine CD from 1994.

It's a recording from the Proms by the BBC National Orchestra of Wales; assuming you have it, how would you rate it?

I love this record, but then again it's the only Walton 1 I've ever heard.

[jazzpiano]

For me it would be Bach's Well-Tempered Clavier. Bach's music in general seems so open to multiple interpretations. I never get bored, though sometimes I'm not in the mood for Bach. I have versions by: Edwin Fischer, Samuel Feinberg, Tatiana Nikolayeva.

Best,
Barry

[Rare Bird]

No im not that type of person :D

[morris_minor]

Okay, I only have one recording of the Walton, the BBC Music magazine CD from 1994.

It's a recording from the Proms by the BBC National Orchestra of Wales; assuming you have it, how would you rate it?

I love this record, but then again it's the only Walton 1 I've ever heard.

Hi Jack,

Any Walton 1 is good in my book really - it's one of the 20th Century's outstanding symphonies. The first movement ratchets up the tension wonderfully, and is, I think, the key to a successful performance overall.

I do have the BBC disc - Tadaaki Otaka at the Proms. This is a very strong performance (IMO - I'm no expert musicologist, just an ex-clarinet player who likes reading scores!), and you need look no further for your enjoyment!

Personally, I like a little more rhythmic bounce and impetus - this is where the early Previn scores for me; his later version for Telarc, sumptuous sound not withstanding, is a much lower voltage affair and a bit of a disappointment.

Another US conductor who's tackled this piece is Leonard Slatkin (with the LSO on Virgin Classics). This again was a strong, and very straightforward performance, losing out a bit on making some rhythmic transitions work (as I'd like them to!). It was, however coupled with a sizzling account of Walton's Portsmouth Point overture. As Mr Slatkin's the Detroit SO's music director now maybe you could ask him to programme Walton 1 next season for you. :)

A more recent US recording is by the New Haven Symphony Orchestra, under William Boughton. This is a solid performance. I think the Walton archive is at Yale, and there are plans for more Walton recordings from here.

At extreme ends of the spectrum are the historic first recording from the Halle Orchestra with Hamilton Harty, and a version by Bernard Haitink with the LPO. These are more for the nutcases like me. The Halle cling on to the score for grim death - it is so close to falling apart in places, but all the more exciting for that!

Haitink thinks Walton is Mahler. His first movement is absolutely monumental. Slower than anything else out there. It kind of works if you forget how it should go :lol:. The proper slow movement (make that very slow with Haitink) is stunning in it's melancholy passion, and held together with such supreme skill. EMI's recording for Haitink is the best ever - warm, radiant, detailed - I can't think how it could be improved. Haitink's Walton 1 appeared on a Walton Two-fer CD with other good Walton pieces from the 80s. Worth looking out for.

I'd better stop here; could ramble on all day :cheers:

[John]

One thing I learned no matter how obsessed around music I thought I was there are plenty who take it to further extremes

[JJack]

Hi Jack,

Any Walton 1 is good in my book really - it's one of the 20th Century's outstanding symphonies. The first movement ratchets up the tension wonderfully, and is, I think, the key to a successful performance overall.

I do have the BBC disc - Tadaaki Otaka at the Proms. This is a very strong performance (IMO - I'm no expert musicologist, just an ex-clarinet player who likes reading scores!), and you need look no further for your enjoyment!

Personally, I like a little more rhythmic bounce and impetus - this is where the early Previn scores for me; his later version for Telarc, sumptuous sound not withstanding, is a much lower voltage affair and a bit of a disappointment.

Another US conductor who's tackled this piece is Leonard Slatkin (with the LSO on Virgin Classics). This again was a strong, and very straightforward performance, losing out a bit on making some rhythmic transitions work (as I'd like them to!). It was, however coupled with a sizzling account of Walton's Portsmouth Point overture. As Mr Slatkin's the Detroit SO's music director now maybe you could ask him to programme Walton 1 next season for you. :)

A more recent US recording is by the New Haven Symphony Orchestra, under William Boughton. This is a solid performance. I think the Walton archive is at Yale, and there are plans for more Walton recordings from here.

At extreme ends of the spectrum are the historic first recording from the Halle Orchestra with Hamilton Harty, and a version by Bernard Haitink with the LPO. These are more for the nutcases like me. The Halle cling on to the score for grim death - it is so close to falling apart in places, but all the more exciting for that!

Haitink thinks Walton is Mahler. His first movement is absolutely monumental. Slower than anything else out there. It kind of works if you forget how it should go :lol:. The proper slow movement (make that very slow with Haitink) is stunning in it's melancholy passion, and held together with such supreme skill. EMI's recording for Haitink is the best ever - warm, radiant, detailed - I can't think how it could be improved. Haitink's Walton 1 appeared on a Walton Two-fer CD with other good Walton pieces from the 80s. Worth looking out for.

I'd better stop here; could ramble on all day :cheers:

Good stuff. Inspired by your post, I listened to it yesterday (actually rare that I get to listen to a whole symphony on a weekday night).

It is great stuff indeed.

[AAshton]

I suspect that I may own more recordings of Respighi's Pines of Rome, in a variety of formats, than the majority of the medical profession would consider sane :mental:

Andrew

[WOStantonCS100]

This is only a real issue for me with "excerpts" and/or "highlights". I've got to have it all; but, I'll take what I can get. So, I eventually wind up purchasing a complete version of works I have in abridged form. At present, I'm focused on obtaining a complete version of Tchaikovsky's Sleeping Beauty (on vinyl, for me, of course).

[morris_minor]

I suspect that I may own more recordings of Respighi's Pines of Rome, in a variety of formats, than the majority of the medical profession would consider sane :mental:

Andrew
:lolsign:

[jandl100]

Walton 1 - yep, I know what you mean. Although I'm not as obsessive about it as you!


Oh, in case anyone's wondering Previn's 1966 LSO recording for RCA still tops my Walton 1 league table - just ...

Yup, I agree about the Previn. His digital remake was a washout, though. Previn's get up and go and gotten up and gone by then. :eyebrows:

But have you heard Louis Fremaux with The Philharmonia on Collins Classics 10312? A very similar interpretation to my ears, but in much superior sound!

As well as those 2, I also have Boult with the LPO (originally issued in 1957) on a bargain price PRT CD (good performance, if a tad laid back in comparison to the 2 previously mentioned, shame about the sq though) and Bryden Thomson on a Chandos CD which is OK but comes a distinct 4th. I think it's the warm and laidback sq which spoils it for me.

I've also got Andrew Litton on Decca CD which I can't remember anything about at all! ... I must give that another listen.

I've also owned Karajan on EMI, but eventually turfed that out as it didn't seem particularly interesting.

[jandl100]

My own obsessions ...

Mmm ... Bruckner!

I've about 200 CDs of his 11 symphonies. :facepull:

[morris_minor]

My own obsessions ...

Mmm ... Bruckner!

I've about 200 CDs of his 11 symphonies. :facepull:


And you're still searching for the ideal recording..... :lolsign:

[jandl100]

Nah - I've got lots of wonderful Bruckner recordings! :)

[JJack]

Nah - I've got lots of wonderful Bruckner recordings! :)

Okay, let's list 'em:

9 with Bruno Walter and Columbia Symphony.

9 with Furtwangler/Berlin

8 with Furtwangler/Berlin

4 with Wand/Berlin

4 with Boehm on Decca/London

8 with Guilini

Still looking for that perfect 7. Any other suggestions?

[jandl100]

What? My fave Bruckner recordings? ... I think AoS may run out of storage space. :D

For the 7th try Tintner on Naxos. :thumbsup: I'm amazed at how good that is - by far the best of his series, imho, and one of the best 7ths I've heard, maybe the best of the lot. I have over 30 7ths on CD. :eyebrows:

I'll have some supper now and give my fave recordings of each symphony some thought ....

[Alex_UK]

I have very little to contribute to this thread, or indeed any of the classical section (despite being an ex-violin player) as I have very little classical music but just felt I must doff my (virtual) hat in the direction of our classical loving forum members who's knowledge and dedication seems to know no bounds! :respect:

As you were, move along - nothing to see here! ;)

[jandl100]

I have very little to contribute to this thread, or indeed any of the classical section (despite being an ex-violin player) as I have very little classical music but just felt I must doff my (virtual) hat in the direction of our classical loving forum members who's knowledge and dedication seems to know no bounds! :respect:

As you were, move along - nothing to see here! ;)

Yep - classical fans can be just as obsessive and enthusiastic about the music as those of any other musical genre! :mental: :eek:

The whole AoS classical music section seems to be gaining some nice momentum now. :thumbsup:

[jandl100]

BRUCKNERian obsessions !! ...


Okay, let's list 'em:

9 with Bruno Walter and Columbia Symphony.

9 with Furtwangler/Berlin

8 with Furtwangler/Berlin

4 with Wand/Berlin

4 with Boehm on Decca/London

8 with Guilini

Still looking for that perfect 7. Any other suggestions?

OK - some of my personal fave Bruckner recordings ....

Symphony "00" - the Study symphony
Rozhdestvensky with the USSR Large Symphony Orch on a Harmonia Mundi double CD set, coupled with ...

Symphony "0" - the Nullte symphony.
Yup, Rozhdestvensky again.

Both have a wonderfully enthusiastic brass section, and are recorded with extra "brass blatt" in the Soviet manner which works really well here. Gennadi Roz is also full of good ideas, as is often the case with him. Both are well worth hearing, and the Nullte is by no means as immature a piece as some critics would suggest. ;)

Symphony #1. Tricky. Not a great work, imo, but it does have prolonged sections which more than hint at the glories to come. Perhaps Solti on Decca is the one I'd go for. It seems strange to me that both the 1st and 2nd symphonies seem less mature and less characteristic of his later genius than the Nullte symphony (0) which he composed first. I guess we all have to find our way by trying different paths!

Symphony #2. Well, this is the one symphony I could live without hearing again. Not sure what he was up to here!

Symphony #3. Aha - now we're cookin' with charcoal! :eek: The first of the truly great Bruckner symphonies, imo.
I'm not usually a great fan of the conductor, but here Herbie von Karajan with the Berlin Phil on DG just nails it to my ears.
Gunter Wand is also wonderful. I prefer his earlier recording with the Koln Radio Symphony Orch on RCA.
Tintner on Naxos has received rave reviews, but he is interminable here to my ears ... he plays the longer (and less good, imo) earlier version, and he just str-e-t-ches it out. It's not often that I am bored by Bruckner, but Tintner manages it!
One of my fave Bruckner conductors, Lovro von Matacic, is captured live on a BBC CD. I was so disappointed with this - in fact, I suspect the BBC have got the tapes mixed up and this isn't Matacic at all!

Symphony #4. Yup, it has to be Bohm on Decca, doesn't it! There are lots of wonderful recordings of the 4th. Jochum, Wand, Tennstedt ...

Symphony #5. A very difficult work to pull off, imo. So many recording fail to do the piece justice. My fave is Welser-Most on EMI. He barely puts a foot wrong and gives an exciting and vibrant reading that made me think "Aha" - so that's how it should go!". Excellent sound quality, too.
Lovro von Matacic is also superb with the Czech Phil on Supraphon.

Symphony #6. Even more difficult to pull off than the 5th! So often it all kind of starts to sag into dreariness after the wonderful 1st movement. But Solti with the Chicago SO on Decca keeps it alive and kicking. What fab sq, too! Klemperer is very good, but once I heard Solti I realised that (imo!) Klemps was a bit overrated.
Keilberth on Teldec also does a superb 1st mvt, but loses it thereafter.

Symphony #7. Tintner, as mentioned in a previous post, does it for me. As Jack says, it's a difficult work to find a totally convincing recording of.
Von Matacic with the Czechs will always have a place in my heart.

Symphony #8. Wow, what a work. Anton Nanut with the Ljubljana SO is my fave. A Yugoslavian recording, quite rare, but pops up on eBay every now and then. Nanut was a really great conductor. Good recording, too, and on a single CD, some 8ths (like Giulini) need 2. Echt Bruckner. Mein Gott!! - those tymps at the start of the finale! :stalks:
Others are fab, too, of course.
Wand's recording in Lubeck cathedral is mind-boggling on RCA. A huge reverberant recording space, and Wand uses that to perfection - he times those 'Brucknerian silences' to allow the previous tumultuous chord to die away a little before the next resounds thru the cathedral. Awesome.
Von Matacic is also well worth looking out for. A great Brucknerian. Guilini, too.

Symphony #9. Bruno Walter, yup, wonderful. So is Eugen Jochum with the Berlin Phil on DG. And Von Matacic again on Supraphon. I'm not (yet) convinced by any of the 'completed' versions of this work (Bruckner died before he could complete the final movement).

Yep, I am sure there are many other great recordings, many of them in my own collection, and many I have never heard!

You may note the absence of any Furtwangler, or indeed any vintage or non-stereo recording.
Just one of my leetle foibles - I think decent recording quality is needed to even begin to capture Bruckner's gigantic musical vision.
Others will disagree with me on that, and that's fine. :)

All the above, IMO and YMMV, of course!

And here's Bruckner enjoying a little Christmas Cheer!!

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii114/jandl100/brucknermasterschristmas.jpg

[morris_minor]

I have to admit I've never really warmed to Bruckner :rolleyes:.

I knew I don't have have any LPs of the Bruckner Symphonies, but looking on my server I find that I have two (ripped from CDs inherited from my Dad, but never played :( ).

They are:

Symphony 3 - Elihau Inbal/Frankfurt RSO
Symphony 8 - Solti/Chicago SO

Maybe I should give 'em an outing? :scratch:

[jandl100]

Werll ... I think Bruckner is one of those marmite things.
Give them a try.

I hope that my passion for his music came thru in my post. :)

It's not for the "Sesame Street generation" though - those used to 2 minute musical soundbites will not appreciate the music, I suspect! - far longer timescales are involved for a lot of it.

Tell you what Bob - try the start of the 4th movement of the 8th symphony. Play it loud!! :D

[morris_minor]

Tell you what Bob - try the start of the 4th movement of the 8th symphony. Play it loud!! :D

Ok. But I'll wait until 'er indoors has gone out :lol:.

[morris_minor]

Jerry - don't know why but this post slipped under my radar - sorry :doh:

Yes - I've all those recordings you mention. The Boult was the first recording I got - then on a Pye Golden Guinea LP. This was after I heard Tod Handley conduct the work - and I was just hooked on it . . :eek:


Walton 1 - yep, I know what you mean. Although I'm not as obsessive about it as you!



Yup, I agree about the Previn. His digital remake was a washout, though. Previn's get up and go and gotten up and gone by then. :eyebrows:

But have you heard Louis Fremaux with The Philharmonia on Collins Classics 10312? A very similar interpretation to my ears, but in much superior sound!

As well as those 2, I also have Boult with the LPO (originally issued in 1957) on a bargain price PRT CD (good performance, if a tad laid back in comparison to the 2 previously mentioned, shame about the sq though) and Bryden Thomson on a Chandos CD which is OK but comes a distinct 4th. I think it's the warm and laidback sq which spoils it for me.

I've also got Andrew Litton on Decca CD which I can't remember anything about at all! ... I must give that another listen.

I've also owned Karajan on EMI, but eventually turfed that out as it didn't seem particularly interesting.

[jandl100]

So what do you think of the Fremaux Walton 1?

[morris_minor]

So what do you think of the Fremaux Walton 1?

It's been a time since I listened to it - give me a few days and I'll report back :).

[MartinT]

Symphony #9. Bruno Walter, yup, wonderful. So is Eugen Jochum with the Berlin Phil on DG. And Von Matacic again on Supraphon.

Yep - I love the 9th and have a good few myself. My favourite remains the Jochum but I do like Gunter Wand's interpretation, too.

[jazzpiano]

Sometimes the obsession is more about a particular performer than a piece of music. For example, I love the records I have by pianist Heinrich Neihauz but they are often cost prohibitive. Likewise for Magda Tagliaferro. Seems like once the far east and other collectors latch on the cost goes through the roof. Just the way it goes I guess...

Best,
Barry

[jandl100]

Yes, it's more cost-effective to get obsessed by things that have not (yet?) been recognised by too many others.

One of my fave obsessions is the work of the Yugoslav conductor Anton Nanut with his Ljubljana Symphony Orchestra.
Wonderfully talented - some of his recordings have become my 'desert island' choices for the music.
... Bruckner 8, Mahler 6, Beethoven 7, Sibelius 2, Shostakovich 7.

Happily, many of his recordings appear on bottom-of-the-barrel bargain labels that most folks will simply skim over in the discount bins. :eyebrows:

Yes, there are some duffers in his catalogue - he sadly chose to team up with Dubravka Tomsic as pianist on a cycle of the Beethoven concertos. Oh dear :doh:.
And his Mahler "Das Lied" has a horribly squally Slavonic vocal soloist. :wowzer:

But (except for the piano concertos) all of his Beethoven is good, some of it is wonderful. Same goes for his Mahler symphonies.

[MartinT]

Obsessions, let me see...

Beethoven Symphony No. 9 - 11 recordings (favourite: Jochum)

Mozart Requiem - 11 recordings (favourite: Fruhbeck de Burgos)

Bruckner Symphony No. 9 - 9 recordings (favourite: Jochum)

Respighi Pines of Rome - 8 recordings (favourite: Lane)

[JJack]

BRUCKNERian obsessions !! ...



OK - some of my personal fave Bruckner recordings ....

Symphony "00" - the Study symphony
Rozhdestvensky with the USSR Large Symphony Orch on a Harmonia Mundi double CD set, coupled with ...

Symphony "0" - the Nullte symphony.
Yup, Rozhdestvensky again.

Both have a wonderfully enthusiastic brass section, and are recorded with extra "brass blatt" in the Soviet manner which works really well here. Gennadi Roz is also full of good ideas, as is often the case with him. Both are well worth hearing, and the Nullte is by no means as immature a piece as some critics would suggest. ;)
.....



You may note the absence of any Furtwangler, or indeed any vintage or non-stereo recording.
Just one of my leetle foibles - I think decent recording quality is needed to even begin to capture Bruckner's gigantic musical vision.
Others will disagree with me on that, and that's fine. :)

All the above, IMO and YMMV, of course!

And here's Bruckner enjoying a little Christmas Cheer!!

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii114/jandl100/brucknermasterschristmas.jpg

Ah, wonderful post!

I only have one 3rd, and it's the Tintner (the only 3rd I've ever heard). I love the breadth but obviously have no comparisons.

I did pick up a 7th, Goodall with the BBC SO on BBC records. Have only listened in my car but enjoyed it.

I agree that 80 minute long mono recordings from the 1940s can tax the heartiest listener, but there is a fortepiano in the Furtwangler 8th that is simply so stunning that it must be heard.

I'll drop a name here: I got to sing in a chorus for Gennadi R for a few performances of Rachmaninov, great stuff

[MartinT]

I'll drop a name here: I got to sing in a chorus for Gennadi R for a few performances of Rachmaninov, great stuff

Impressive! I have a few GR recordings, some actually on the Melodiya label, that I bought in Moscow.

[jandl100]

Ah, wonderful post!

Thank you. :)


I'll drop a name here: I got to sing in a chorus for Gennadi R for a few performances of Rachmaninov, great stuff

Wow! :respect:

[morris_minor]

So what do you think of the Fremaux Walton 1?

Fremaux's Walton 1 is one of the best IMO. Having just listened to it, for the first time in years, I was impressed at the strength of the reading - and it's a good recording too.

For my money though, Fremaux loses that little bit of impetus in the first movement when emphasising some key moments. There's a telling moment when a group of "seventh" * notes is hammered out and his foot comes off the gas a bit in order to point these notes out to the listener. Like holding up a big arrow. Some conductors put up a neon sign as well :lol: Listen from 4 minutes 50. If you have a score its 5 bars before fig.18.

* by seventh notes I meant seven notes (quavers) across two beats.

Walton doesn't help himself here because the bar with these notes is marked Allargando Molto and comes after a five bar rallentando. It's when you hear how effective Previn (1966) is in slowing up and maintaining the momentum into the a tempo following the seventh notes that something like this jumps out (at least to me).

The early Previn follows the lead set by Walton himself and Hamilton Harty in the first recording (1935); so his is not a maverick's interpretation. Of modern performances Paul Daniel on Naxos is good, as is Martyn Brabbins on Hyperion.

Of course, its horses for courses, and I might be talking a load of guf. :lol:

Having said this, it's a very enjoyable performance, and if I wound up on my desert island with this one I wouldn't be disappointed.

[JJack]

Impressive! I have a few GR recordings, some actually on the Melodiya label, that I bought in Moscow.

I have a handful of Melodiya LPs (though I've never been there). The amazing thing is that unique Russian sound. I love the Tschaikovsky 4-6 with Mravinsky/Leningrad Philharmonic. Not the best recordings, as such, but breathing fire all the way through.