The Loudness button - Why and what does it do?

[The Black Adder]

I've got an old amplifier with a Loudness button.

I have a few questions.

Firstly does anyone know why this button came in to being?

What does it do technically (apart from the obvious, making it a bit louder)

Why do we not see this button anymore?

[Beechwoods]

It was designed to boost bass and treble when playing at low volumes - I guess it was a precursor to the Dolby Digital Dynamic Compression you can switch in on some DVDs these days.

[tubehunter]

Quote from my Trio KA-7100 manual.
"The Loudness switch boosts bass response to compensate for the human ear's lack of response to those frequencies at low volume levels". Normally a +3dB to +6dB boost at 100 Hz.

[DSJR]

It's to do with Fletcher-Munson and the ear's sensitivity changes at very low playback volume levels. Done properly, as in some mid 70's Yamaha receivers (set the overal volume level quite high and then adjust the "loudness level control" to bring the volume down), it can make very low level listening very acceptable. The flat-earthers of course dismissed this out of hand, preferring a peaked-up midrange instead at all volume levels, so along with tone controls, the "loudness button" faded into history. me? I wouldn't bother to bring it back right now, preferring a speaker with a carefully optimised balance instead :)

[Reid Malenfant]

At low volume levels your ears don't tend to pick up bass or treble as easily as they do when you turn the volume up to more realistic levels. If you turn the loudness on it gives the low bass & treble a bit of a boost to compensate for your hearing when at low volume.

The loudness control is often tied in with the volume control, so if you leave it switched on once you get above a certain volume setting it is effectively out of circuit or at least seriously reduced in it effects.

These things are still fitted to cheap stereos for the old boys to crank the bass up :eyebrows:

Once you go above a certain level of equipment & possibly a certain age of listener who is more discerning you tend to find they usually have amplifiers with no tone controls at all, or maybe a simple control to slightly skew things like the "Tilt" control on Quad pre amps...

You aren't an old boy any more Joe :cool:

[The Black Adder]

haha.. cool.

I must admit it's not something I use on my other amp. It's normally turned off but now I see what it's there for. I've grown up with that weird little button always being on but at high volumes it's too much...

[YNWaN]

The flat-earthers of course dismissed this out of hand, preferring a peaked-up midrange instead at all volume levels

Pah! (I dismiss your criticism out of hand :ner:)

I haven't had a loudness button or tone controls in over 20 years and have never missed them. According to in-room measurement, my midrange isn't 'peaked up'.

(I won't repeat the supposed purpose of the loudness button as it entirely explained, a number of times, above :))

[Thing Fish]

I thought it was to drown the wife out...;)

[The Grand Wazoo]

Pah! (I dismiss your criticism out of hand :ner:)

I haven't had a loudness button or tone controls in over 20 years and have never missed them.


Errr......I don't think that was quite what Dave was getting at.
I think he may have been talking about a tone control that looks like this:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_98vyfZ-DuYw/S0NE2-bko-I/AAAAAAAAAvE/RhNuEuKts4w/s400/P1050080.JPG

[YNWaN]

Well I dismiss that criticism then (also out of hand)......

[The Grand Wazoo]

Well, I'd rather not comment on that particular can of worms but I do agreewith what he says about the variable loudness control on Yamaha receivers. It's a well designed and subtly useful tool - I use it when listening late at night/early morning to music, with speakers on stands placed either side of my desk.

[Pete The Cat]

I remember a note attached to an amp at school back in the late 70's saying not to use the loudness button at high volume for fear of damaging the speakers.

A few years later use of the loudness button would transform my Rotel RA314 from nondescript to exciting, but the higher the volume the more it agitated my Celestion DL6s.

The day I moved to a place where I could play louder as the norm I got a Quad combo and never needed a loudness button again.

Pete

[Beobloke]

To quote the great "Bluff your Way in Hi-fi" book:

Loudness: a bossy volume control that mucks up the sound because it thinks your ears work that way, even though they don't.

:)

[DSJR]

Pah! (I dismiss your criticism out of hand :ner:)

I haven't had a loudness button or tone controls in over 20 years and have never missed them. According to in-room measurement, my midrange isn't 'peaked up'.

(I won't repeat the supposed purpose of the loudness button as it entirely explained, a number of times, above :))

Since when was I thinking of Epos ES14's? :lol:

I was actually thinking of Kans, Sara's, 'Briks at their worst and other, mid-forward screechers that work exactly the opposite of a "loudness switch."

[YNWaN]

No, I know you weren't Dave :), but I don't know if those designs you mention have peaked up mid as such, very uneven frequency response, in general, would be more my description.

[griffo104]

My old Yammy active system has a loudness button - 20 years on and it the little system still works a treat. It made a substantial difference to the sound on that system.

My current budget Denon amp I have in my 2nd system also has this and it makes a pleasant difference, enough so that I keep it on and not use the tone controls. perfect for the volume I play at to not annoy the neighbours upstairs.

A friend bought his Arcam FMJ amp round a couple of weeks ago, and with the tone controls all set to zero it really struggled with my Totems sounding very flat and very lifeless, once we played with the tone controls it sounded ok. Essentially it did the same as the loudness button on the Denon amp. Got to say I'm glad I spent the meagre amount on the Denon, really not that impressed with the Arcam considering the price difference (slightly off topic).

[DSJR]

No, I know you weren't Dave :), but I don't know if those designs you mention have peaked up mid as such, very uneven frequency response, in general, would be more my description.


:lolsign:

The Kan up until the mk2 really was in most rooms, VERY peaked up in the upper-mid I thought. The Sara had a sort of dipped out lower-mid (vocals), which made for the bass and "wonderful" reproduction of snare drums I remember. Briks varied a lot, but I remember that generally, they were a bit bright 'cos the mid driver wasn't equalised up until they started using the high-power ones and passive crossovers in the base of the speaker, and even then it was probably the revised driver they used..

By the way, I'm not saying you couldn't get a good sound out the above, merely that the tonal balance was biased towards "youthful excitement" rather than the more "genteel" tones I prefer today - definitely today, since I've got yet another goddamned ear infection - appt at the Docs/Vets :) tomorrow morning, since these things just don't clear up on their own with me :(

[RobHolt]

The thinking behind the loudness button is perfectly sound, see DSJRs post for the reasons why.

However, it was rarely implemented in any acceptable way. Nearly all amplifiers used a fixed level of boost irrespective of the volume level. Often this was far too much correction and essentially the option was only included as at one time it was considered an essential facility, and boosted the button count in the days when this was important.

The better implementations allowed the loudness correction to vary with volume control setting, with an additional track on the volume pot giving a sliding correction with progressively less boost applied as volume increased.

Must admit I very occasionally apply a little bass boost when listening at very low levels - only about 3dB.

[Marco]

Must admit I very occasionally apply a little bass boost when listening at very low levels - only about 3dB.

You wouldn't need to do that if you used proper 'big boy' speakers! :eyebrows:

;)

Marco.

[RobHolt]

You wouldn't need to do that if you used proper 'big boy' speakers! :eyebrows:

;)

Marco.

Ahem, if to want to play that game, the radiating area of my speakers is roughly that of five 15" drivers - per channel :eyebrows: