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View Full Version : Opinions of the TC-7510 with MOD21?



StanleyB
06-11-2008, 06:54
I have had quite a good take up from owners of the TC-7510 who wanted to try out MOD21. But the MK6/4, which is the MK6/3 with MOD21, has been selling less well than the MK6/3 was before. I put it down to the fact that there are folks out there who are waiting to read a bit more responses from people who have had the MOD21 fitted. So please don't disappoint them;).

Stan

Covenant
06-11-2008, 08:59
Perhaps it would be beneficial to explain on your website what the modification is and the evolution of the TC-7510.
Mine seems to be changing a bit so I dont want to comment too much until its settled down.
I know others have mentioned this but some method of telling what version you have would be great.
And tell us more about the new power supply!

Acorn3a
06-11-2008, 09:11
Those of us that have the latest model know how good it is,the only way for others to find out is to buy one.
After all if they dont like it they can send it back for a refund,something i doubt they would do.:)

Gazjam
06-11-2008, 10:15
Stan,
feel free to use my previous comments/review on the Mk6/4 on website or wherever.

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=952&page=10

I have mentioned in another Forum that I see the ongoing upgrade nature of your Dac as a positive service that not a lot of other Manufacturers provide. I likened it to what Arcam used to do, upgrading Alpha 7 to 8, 9 or whatever.

I know in the past people have decried their Dac going "out of date" quickly and its seemed negative. But, in my opinion its something that should be advertised on your website as a positive thing. Its building a long term business relationship with existing customers and I'm sure there are others like me that will continue to support the Dac as it plainly is a product that cuts out the marketing BS and extra cost - and gives the little guy something great for not a huge ammount of money.

Just my £0.02 worth.


*"I put it down to the fact that there are folks out there who are waiting to read a bit more responses from people who have had the MOD21 fitted."*

Could also be a bit of confusion about version numbers? I'd sell the MK6/3 "for a limited time only", is there really much point running parallel product lines?




Gaz.

StanleyB
06-11-2008, 10:29
Thanks guys. The MK6/3 are all sold out now. The factory modded version has replaced it, and is called the MK6/4.

dmckean
07-11-2008, 01:46
I have had quite a good take up from owners of the TC-7510 who wanted to try out MOD21. But the MK6/4, which is the MK6/3 with MOD21, has been selling less well than the MK6/3 was before. I put it down to the fact that there are folks out there who are waiting to read a bit more responses from people who have had the MOD21 fitted. So please don't disappoint them;).

Stan

Well, it is a budget DAC and the price did go up slightly.

StanleyB
07-11-2008, 05:55
Well, it is a budget DAC and the price did go up slightly.
The £ dropped about 20% against the U$, and the latter is the currency I pay my manufacturing side with. Import cost has gone up, since Customs calculate import duty on the buying currency. A lot of importers are getting hit by the lower £.

Ali Tait
07-11-2008, 16:50
Probably just the time of year Stan,peeps spending their readies on the kids xmas pressies.

Covenant
11-11-2008, 19:09
I would like to be able to report on the MOD 21 but unfortunatley shortly after getting the mod done I started work on tweaking my amp.
This went horribly wrong and is now being looked at by a very kind Wammer. When I get it back (if its repairable) I wont be able to give an opinion either because I wont know if its the amp or the DAC thats different.

StanleyB
14-11-2008, 10:53
These things happen. At least you got in there in time and added the mod afterwards. The way the £ is going, the MK6/4 with the mod is gonna be more expensive from next week. I put prices up by 10% since last year, but the £ is now 25% lower, and falling.

trailer
14-11-2008, 17:22
Well I have had mine for over a week now. (Sent the Mk3 down to Stan and got the modded unit back 2 days later).

I'm running it off an AppleTV into a NAC202 (NAPSC & HiCap) > NAP250.2 > B&W 804s. (Flashback optical and phono to DIN cables if you're interested)

Soundwise the detail is very, very good. The bass is also much tighter, although maybe a little less pronounced because of this(?). The soundstage is also larger. The only complaint I have (and a minor one at that) is that the mid-range is a little bright but that's probably just my preference. Obviously I can't do a A to B comparison now but I definitely prefer the modded version to the old one.

I haven't had the CD5x on once since I've had the Beresford back. Maybe I should do that over the weekend and see how I get on.

Covenant
22-11-2008, 09:50
As I posted previously I cant offer an objective opinion about the 6/4 as I buggered my amp which has now been rebuilt with some tweaked capacitors. What I can say is that my system now sounds different and the comments of Trailer above is what I am finding. I use my hifi in a small second living room (away from I'm a celebrity etc) with floor standing speakers. I thought I had a problem with bass boom and had started experimenting with sound absorbing materials. These didnt help at all. The 6/4 does appear to have better controlled bass because the bass problems have now disappeared.
In addition there is a lovely sense of 'being there'-hearing all the background noises in the recording. The top notes have changed dramatically, on some recording they can screech but I am convinced its just poor recording techniques because on others its simply stunning.
So well done Stan I really do not understand the bad comments you get which mainly seem to be from people who haven't tried your DAC and are probably trying to justify their heavy expenditure. More than anything I appreciate the upgrade path you offer-you cant make a lot of money doing the mods and virtually all manufacturers would see it as an opportunity to get loyal customers to buy a new box.

leo
20-12-2008, 18:18
Having more time listening to the TC-7510 MK6/4 (one a friend let me borrow) I can still say these dacs are very good for the price.
Both of my main diy dacs would cost more in parts alone so a direct comparison isn't really fair

I still wouldn't mind getting one of these dacs some time to play with, theres a few things I'd like to try out which shouldn't be too expensive.
Obviously theres the Mod21 too, I've no idea if the one I'm borrowing has this or not, its not my unit so have no intentions of probing about with it

The question in my mind is how far can this unit be pushed without resorting to over the top expensive mods:eyebrows:

StanleyB
20-12-2008, 18:55
If it is the MK6/4 then it has the MOD21.

One thing that does bug me is why all the LEDs light up on switch on when I use certain power supplies instead of the one that I supply with the DAC. If anyone has a theory or two about that, I'll be most interested to read them. I personally think it is due to the Virtual DC power supply I developed for the DAC. It can continue to supply power to the DAC circuitry for more than 150 mains cycles after the power has been removed.

leo
20-12-2008, 20:17
Does it do the light up thing with mainly external linear based supplies or with some SMPS based ones too?

Burst of current at switch on with some supplies is pretty high

StanleyB
20-12-2008, 20:24
I noticed it on linear power supplies.

leo
20-12-2008, 20:44
Could be the virtual DC power supply stan, linears also take a bit longer to start up and output full voltage than a SMPS.
Maybe the extra time takes longer for the TC-7510 to stabilize

StanleyB
20-12-2008, 20:51
I'll have a look at the timing/auto reset circuit after Christmas. I need to solve this problem since it is interfering with every battery powered circuit I tried.

Labarum
21-12-2008, 16:31
Does running from batteries or a non-switching power supply improve 6/3 or 6/4?

When will the big upgrade with better phone amp be available?

StanleyB
21-12-2008, 16:57
1. Battery
2. Soon. A minor amendment of one of the PCBs needs to be done in order to allow one of the TOSLINK inputs to be substituted for a USB input during assembly. But the USB version will be phased in at a later date. There is a credit crunch on at the moment, so I don't wish to go heavy on people's wallet. Especially since the price of the USB version is close to £200, based on current exchange rates.

Stan
http://www.beresford.me/images/USB3.jpg

Ali Tait
22-12-2008, 20:24
Still be a bloody bargain Stan,and I think with a usb it would appeal to a lot more people.There are a lot of good reviews on the net (I've not come across a bad one!) so with a usb, may be of interest to the more computery types out there.

Labarum
22-12-2008, 20:34
Still be a bloody bargain Stan,and I think with a usb it would appeal to a lot more people.There are a lot of good reviews on the net (I've not come across a bad one!) so with a usb, may be of interest to the more computery types out there.

Agreed.

popol_vuh
28-12-2008, 13:42
7510+ with better pre-amp capabilities AND with a USB sounds like a dream. I'm getting one as soon as you release that Stan. USB is a great idea.

YoG
02-01-2009, 12:06
Is there a specific analogue cable someone may suggest for hooking this DAC into my Cyrus 8vs2?
Im asking because the Cyrus has a tendency to sound bright when using the wrong cable (e.g. a Chord Crimson sounds terrible)

Im not sure what kind of sound-image the Beresford has, is it bright or more valve-like .. or eh ?

Im currently using the Van Den Hul The Name to connect my cdplayer to the Cyrus. Im planning to use this cable for the Beresford, because i love that sound of that.
I have only heard two kinds of cables with my amp, i also have an option to buy a cheap DNM Reson TBB100, which seems to be more compatible with the Cyrus. (someone stated that DNM is Cyrus' analogue cable-manufacturer?) Should i go for the DNM instead?

Labarum
14-01-2009, 22:13
My opinion?

Clearer and cleaner midband. Tauter bass.
(Big speakers, so I was never short of bass extension.)

Better piano, bowed strings, choral music and tympani.

Compressed radio steams 128 - 320 Kb/s seem to benefit particularly from MOD21.

Why? I haven't a clue.

Stanley?

Fi-Wi
15-01-2009, 20:14
My opinion?

Clearer and cleaner midband. Tauter bass.
(Big speakers, so I was never short of bass extension.)

Better piano, bowed strings, choral music and tympani.

Compressed radio steams 128 - 320 Kb/s seem to benefit particularly from MOD21.
That sounds very promissing! :eyebrows:

Labarum
15-01-2009, 21:09
The Maplin's Power supply that Stanley recommends as an upgrade is on special offer for the next few days

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=48517

Recommendation in this thread

http://www.theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1811&highlight=beresford+pdf

apmusson
15-01-2009, 21:54
Stan,

Your DAC is getting some serious defence after a poster on HeadFi decided to try and imply that it couldn't compete with other hi-end DACs.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f7/beresford-tc-7510-does-again-399977/index4.html

Can't wait to listen to the TC7510+ and see what that brings to the table.

Ade

leo
16-01-2009, 00:07
Stan,

Your DAC is getting some serious defence

Ade

And so it should!

StanleyB
16-01-2009, 07:48
Please note that I am no longer offering to upgrade customers older unit with MOD21. It is just not worth the hassle to me, and is financially unrewarding. But modders can of course continue to download the instructions to do the mod from http://www.beresford.me/Downloads/Mod21.pdf.
I have no objections to anyone offering to do the mod for others at whatever financial arrangement they see fit.
I shall still be doing some of the other modification options though. Right now I got a 'partial brain transplant mod' to carry out for someone on AoS. No details available from me, since I would like the owner of that DAC to be able to take the limelight with it when it is completed.

Stan

Labarum
17-01-2009, 12:28
My opinion?

Clearer and cleaner midband. Tauter bass . . .

Just received the recommended Maplin Power Supply. Another modest but worthwhile improvement - and if my laptop power supply fails I have a spare to hand!

I await the new "plus" box with interest, but the difference is very small between fixed and variable output into my upgraded Quad 405-2 and ageing but once expensive speakers.

Covenant
17-01-2009, 15:53
Stanley has advised on PFM that he will have a new power supply out at the end of March.

Fi-Wi
17-01-2009, 16:04
Did he say if that will also benefit the Mark 6/3 with its "unique Virtual DC power supply"?

Covenant
17-01-2009, 16:57
'I'll have a new external power supply out by March. After wasting my time believing all the junk that various power supply designers from numerous factories have been telling me, I realized that these guys weren't even suitable to clean my shoes. So I have worked on a matching design whose sole purpose is to feed my DAC and a few other products I have in the design stage. The DAC doesn't need a lot of current. In fact it only draws 100mA on average. What it needs is a low ripple voltage and current. So far only off the shelf linear power supplies can produce those types of figures at a low price.

Stan '
Seems to suggest that it will benefit the 6/3, 6/4.

Fi-Wi
17-01-2009, 17:02
Great, thanks for the quote.

YoG
19-01-2009, 15:04
Got my mk6/4 today.. i love it already!
Its powered on and playing music for about 3 hours now.. i like the sound of it already. Full, rich, more detail in reverbs, crispy high.. ill leave it playing for a few days.
Flacs are delivered to my amp as if it were raw cd's

__


Is it possible to tweak up the sound by software?
I use Foobar. The preferences-screen let me choose the amount of bits, 16,24 and 32.. it says 24 on the front of the DAC.. should i keep that setting?

What about 'dither' ?


im a little noobish in this part of hifi :scratch:

StanleyB
19-01-2009, 15:11
Best let the DAC take care of the playback of the audio files. Once you start re-working the files with software, the DAC could easily start showing up the damage caused by such software adjustment. As an example, take a 128K mp3 file and use a converter to convert it to 192k and 320k. Now play the three back and listen to the result. You'll find that the original 128K sounds far batter than its conversions.

Fi-Wi
19-01-2009, 19:26
Got my mk6/4 today.. i love it already!
Its powered on and playing music for about 3 hours now.. i like the sound of it already. Full, rich, more detail in reverbs, crispy high.. ill leave it playing for a few days.
Flacs are delivered to my amp as if it were raw cd's

Is that compared to the 6/3 of compared to your DAC-less (or pre-DAC if you wish) sound?

YoG
19-01-2009, 20:07
Is that compared to the 6/3 of compared to your DAC-less (or pre-DAC if you wish) sound?

Dac-less.. i used to have my amp (cyrus) connected to my pc with a cheap no-name analogue cable (and some switches :doh: ), on my onboard Realtek sounddevice.
Obviously a huge difference with digital connection and Beresford DAC.

Its still burning in, the sound is still lacking a bit of low end punch? Its all very clean down there.

Oh well, ive learned to be patient.. it took ages for Paypal to draw the amount of money from my bank account, and my local postal service to process my package. Your Royal mail (or what its called) is very quick though! I was able to monitor the track&trace my package in a very precise way..

Anway, How many days does it usually take to burn in this DAC to a 'full' one? For my amp it took a few WEEKS to complete! :violin:

Filterlab
19-01-2009, 22:44
YoG;

Use a lossless codec when importing, and leave any system settings for ripped CDs as 16bit / 44.1Khz. The more you fiddle, the more you corrupt.

What computer and playback software are you running?

YoG
20-01-2009, 14:21
YoG;

Use a lossless codec when importing, and leave any system settings for ripped CDs as 16bit / 44.1Khz. The more you fiddle, the more you corrupt.
Yeah ill just leave it all to default settings.. not gonna experiment any longer, and try enjoy the music a lot more :eyebrows:


What computer and playback software are you running?Its a modern decent one, i got a month ago.. good specs etc. i use Foobar (i love that app)

I enabled Kernel Streaming, im pretty sure that will only improve things instead of 'adding' unwanted bits n bytes

Ill refrain about further reviewing the DAC untill its fully run in, lets say about a week or so?
I also use a new digital coaxcable.. a little long though (10 meter) but i read coax does not suffer in using long sizes.. maybe it needs a little burn in too .. ? :scratch:

Yeah i love Flacs! Even more difference is heard using a digital stream.. more depth, a MUCH warmer sound compared to 320k-mp3 (even though my digital stream is removing a lot of warmth, i understand why people like an analogue sound, but its also adding a lot of crap)

ill just sit and wait, enjoy some drinks and listen music.. i can live with that!

Yomanze
22-01-2009, 15:15
'I'll have a new external power supply out by March. After wasting my time believing all the junk that various power supply designers from numerous factories have been telling me, I realized that these guys weren't even suitable to clean my shoes. So I have worked on a matching design whose sole purpose is to feed my DAC and a few other products I have in the design stage. The DAC doesn't need a lot of current. In fact it only draws 100mA on average. What it needs is a low ripple voltage and current. So far only off the shelf linear power supplies can produce those types of figures at a low price.

Stan '
Seems to suggest that it will benefit the 6/3, 6/4.

Hmmm, looks like a Jung-style Linear Regulated supply is in order then... will report back once I've built one. :P

As far as MOD21 is concerned I got the details off Stan & will be implementing this weekend.

YoG
17-03-2009, 16:27
Sorry for digging up an old post, i dont want to make a new thread for this..

I think i wasted one of my digital inputs. When searching the house i found an old soundcard (SB Live) with an EMU imprint on the processor. My guess is that wouldve sounded better that my onboard Realtek device.
So i immediately installed and tried to connect the coaxial cable in the digital output but it didnt really fit in (i found out it needs a 3,5 mm converter DOH!)
I think i then demolished my nr.1 digital coax-input. I also didnt switch off the DAC when changing the cables..
The first 20 mins or so the DAC did not give any sound at all (even not from a thirdparty optical cable, plugged in my digi-tv decoder)
I let it rest and started panicking around like a little child.. then i tried various combinations and so i found out the nr. coax input is not working anymore. All the other inputs got back into bussiness after the 20 minute rest.

I hope my stupid action did not affect any other part of the DAC... as the nr1 input is down, will this affect the other inputs or electric parts in the DAC ?

What exactly caused the problem? Not powering the DAC down when changing the cables or my stupid effort to plug it in the 3.5 mm (DOH!) output?

To be honest i never power down the DAC when i mess with the cables.. but i found out theres quite a big electro voltage on the coax-cable.
Im still new to digital stuff but in my experience with analogue cables its not noeeded to power down the components

StanleyB
17-03-2009, 20:31
The surface mount 4052 has blown one of its inputs. Just needs replacing with a new 4025.

YoG
18-03-2009, 08:36
Easy for you to say, on a distance :)
So that faulty 4025 thingy wont affect the sound quality of the DAC in general?
I guess all it takes is some soldering ?


I noticed a little gain in Bass in coax input nr.2 .. ?

I also hear a big difference on my Cyrus 8vs2 amp, the CD input sounds like its focusing a lot more on the mids and high.. i suppose the 7510 has something similar

StanleyB
18-03-2009, 23:10
Easy for you to say, on a distance :)
So that faulty 4025 thingy wont affect the sound quality of the DAC in general?
I guess all it takes is some soldering ?



4052:). It's just a digital switch. If you know how to tackle surface mount, sure you can change it. Otherwise email me.

Stan