View Full Version : Recordings Have we moved on in the last 40 years
I got a few jazz recordings on vinyl that dates back to the 50s and 60s When I listen to them they are some of the best recordings in my collection.
One of my favourite recordings Is Rush Farewell to the Kings The sound on this on vinyl is simply stunning, a few years latter Rush produced probarly their best album Moving Pictures it has the same producer yet somehow the recording is not as good.
I do think their are a few labels and producers still producing good quality recordings
Naim Opus 3 Water Lilly etc but it seems like we not really moved forward and on the whole due to compression and pro tools (don't get me wrong I actually like pro tools as it makes music more accesiable to produce your own music) probarly moved backwards
Whilst it would be a mistake to generalise and suggest that all old recordings are better than modern efforts I think it is certainly true to say that the trend is that way.
I wonder if this is partly down to the musicians taking more control of the recording process. Back in the day recording technology was a complex black art that only enginners and producers had knowledge of. Musicians had to trust them and accept that the finished product was the best that could be done.
Nowdays many bands and musicians do their own engineering, mastering and post production and end up with the results they want. The problem here is that what the musician wants to hear and what the listener wants can be two very different things. Many of the musicians in my aquiantance do not do much listening to music, they prefer to play. Their replay systems are in some cases risible Saisho- style efforts or cheap boom boxes.
When it comes to recording their own work they want perfection which is why digital recording was so quick to take off. As one very accomplished musician said to me many years ago when we were arguing analogue versus digital -
'You have no idea how annoying it is to spend countless hours in the studio creating a masterpiece only to hear it played back on a record with clicks and pops and audible distortion. It sounds nothing like what was put down in the studio.'
For me, the problem with this attempt to get perfection is that the final recording sounds over-processed and bland.
My personal preference is for more rough and ready recordings that do not surpress the energy and excitment of the performance and for replay I find analogue far more relaxing and pleasurable than digital; but then I am a listener to music and not not a maker of music.
Rare Bird
03-09-2011, 13:40
You can hear how good old recordings sound by obtaining a CD issue thats been remastered from the original Analogue Master tapes, Remastered properly, i repeat properly! the excellence of the recording then shines through more than i ever heard it on vinyl pressing.This is precisely my argument with vinyl, i could never hear what i heard via the above method regardless of how good my turntable rig was.You cannot get blood from a stone.
:cool:
With my experience is that I get great sounds from discs and when recorded with the above way you mention this is indeed excellent but I still yet to hear it bettering really good vinyl
I guess personal experiences very so much and
i do also have vinyl that when remastered have been a lot better than the orginal recording so not sure what is going on here
Martin you raise some interesting points
So for me whilst we might of improved pops and clicks I do not really hear an improvement in sound quality to what has been done
I agree with you point that we become more consitant and if we over produce it just sounds all stale. Certainly in the past it was a lot more hit and miss. But when done well by people that really cared and knew their stuff I do not think we really moved forwards, perhaps sideways
You're wasting your breath Andre :lolsign:
Well I agree Andre has a valid point a lot of lps when remastered sound better but I also have recordings that are in another league to this on vinly
I have only a few rock based albums that sound truly stunning on vinyl. most of my jazz collection tend to be in the truly stunning
You're wasting your breath Andre :lolsign:
I have hundreds of CDs and I have spent a lot (too much, really) on digital replay over the years. I'm no Luddite, I prefer some aspects of digital and done right (recording and playback) it can be awesome. I just prefer analogue in the same way one may prefer white bread to wholemeal or a Ford Mondeo to a Toyota Avensis.:)
It’s about recording quality (trying to deftly steer away form an analogue digital debate)
I don’t think one can generalize tbh. There are some excellent analogue recordings from some studios from the 1950’s.
The thing is, microphones have improved rather a lot since then, so the potential to actually record a wider frequency range is there.
If you put some of these “old” recordings through an analyzer you can see that they’re fairly limited in frequency range and thus not particularly challenging for the average stereo to reproduce.
Often, the recordings offered up as great examples of past works are fairly simple jazz quartets for example playing, erm, real instruments, relatively easy to record some might argue.
Sure, there is a lot of over engineered stuff out there, but consider the difference in the total volume of stuff recorded back in the day and now.
There are some exceptional modern recordings, both digital and analogue. Part of the problem is a lot of people don’t like accurate sound reproduction. Often it’s not pleasant to listen to. I think digital has far greater potential to provide that accurate sound.
This is where it all gets very fuzzy, accurate and possibly a bit hard on the hearing or not quite so accurate but easier on the ear.
There are some exceptional modern recordings, both digital and analogue. Part of the problem is a lot of people don’t like accurate sound reproduction. Often it’s not pleasant to listen to. I think digital has far greater potential to provide that accurate sound.
This is where it all gets very fuzzy, accurate and possibly a bit hard on the hearing or not quite so accurate but easier on the ear.
I agree. Accurate replay is important to some but not others. I prefer a rosy-coloured view - many people don't. But we are talking recording now, not replay. My view is that modern reecording facilities simply offer too much, the temptation to over-process the sound, adding too many effects and so forth.
I recently listened to a recording of a local band made on a small Phillips boom box with built in twin mikes. The drummer simply put it on a shelf behind his kit and recorded the practice session on a C90. Played back on the same Philips unit this sounded terrific with all of the drum kit and the guitars reproduced superbly, only the bas guitar and bass drum were absent.
Feeding the recording through the analogue outs into a proper hi-fi and it was apparant that the lack of bass was down to the recording, not the boom box. However everything else sounded superbly 'live' with great prescence to the sound. My point - less is more when it comes to processing the recording, any recording.
I'm with the less is more argument for sure. I also think that when musicians are recorded individually you end up with a dry, sterile recording, not only in ambiance but there's no interplay between musicians.
Whether vinyl or CD, a good recording of a band playing togther will shine through.
I agree, Clive. Hopefully I will soon be putting my money where my mouth is as my home studio is now close to completion - I now just need a couple of decent mics. The idea is to offer free recording facilities to local bands who can't afford a proper studio. My time as engineer & producer will be offered free of charge (which is probably what it's worth :lol:)
Sounds great Martin, I wish you the best of luck and look forward to hearing some of the output!
Rare Bird
04-09-2011, 00:01
You're wasting your breath Andre :lolsign:
O i know that
The toys available to todays recording "engineers" are so vast it beggars belief and it's the use and over use of these that worries me. The fact that sound files in some recordings are little more than MP3's BEFORE mastering (being sent electronically around the country/world for overdubs etc) is another negative in my book.
I get the feeling that, in the 50's and before track bouncing was made common-place, the musicians would have gone in, sat down, been miked up and then done a few takes until the best was chosen for release, keeping everything simple.
Andr'e, this is ME saying this as a fan of "good" digital :lolsign: - I finally collected the LS5/9's yesterday (fascinating, "forensic" little monitors ;)) and a track by "America" was first played. I thought it was CD, but in fact it was a TD125/RB300/MC30 Super. Full of life, sparkle, FEELING and no background noise at all - wonderful!!!!
Stratmangler
04-09-2011, 11:09
Went out checking guitars out yesterday, and was most impressed with these amps http://www.blackstaramps.co.uk/products/ht-1/ht-1rh.html - one watt output, and line out built in for recording.
Any guitarist who can't get a decent sound out of one should either give up or spend much more time practising :eyebrows:
It would also keep levels down in the studio.
Went out checking guitars out yesterday, and was most impressed with these amps http://www.blackstaramps.co.uk/products/ht-1/ht-1rh.html - one watt output, and line out built in for recording.
Any guitarist who can't get a decent sound out of one should either give up or spend much more time practising :eyebrows:
It would also keep levels down in the studio.
Blackstar are a bunch of ex-Marshall folks who decided to set up on their own.
Stratmangler
04-09-2011, 12:36
Blackstar are a bunch of ex-Marshall folks who decided to set up on their own.
Didn't know that - the amps have tone to die for ! :rock:
No amp can make me sound any good :rolleyes: :(
Stratmangler
04-09-2011, 12:52
No amp can make me sound any good :rolleyes: :(
Hence my comment ;)
Any guitarist who can't get a decent sound out of one should either give up or spend much more time practising :eyebrows:
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