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Hozepipe
21-10-2008, 18:38
Hi

Great forum, been lurking a bit but I now have a question, hope you can help!

I just managed to break one of the loading resistors on my tonearm cable (I solder it across the signal/ground inside the phono jack, which I read somewhere is the same as putting it in the preamp, makes it easier to change values and I'm too lazy to put them inside the preamp!). They are 1k ohm resistors that came with my Audio Research SP9 preamp. The 100 ohm ones don't sound as good so looks like I need to find some replacement resistors.

I'm all for 'audiophile grade' components if they make a difference but not snake oil hifi BS ;)

Does anyone have nave recommendations (UK preferably)?

ta
Simon

Mike
21-10-2008, 18:47
If you want metal film type resistors you can't go far wrong with Maplins believe it or not!... No kidding! :)

If you fancy something a little more 'exotic' have a look round here: http://www.hificollective.co.uk/

Cheers...

StanleyB
21-10-2008, 19:47
Try both metal and metal film to see which one sounds best. For critical resistor applications, get 1% or better, but the latter are a bit more expensive and harder to find.

STan

Cotlake
21-10-2008, 21:30
Hi Simon,

You are putting resistors in line in the most critical part of the systems circuit which is carrying the signal. The quality of resistor is important because it effects directly what you hear. In your application, the best performing component is obviously what you want albeit whats best for you may not be everyones choice or conversely, their (my) choice might not be yours. Any recommendations here must be considered in that light and you might want to experiment. My suggestions are not 'snake oil'. I'm seriously not into that.

Being a critical application I suggest you invest in quality resistors. Certainly the Maplins as suggested will do a reasonable job but you can do far better. The best R's probably can't be fitted as you currently do. I suggest stop being lazy and get inside the chassis. That would be good.

I recommend Vishay bulk foil. They are not cheap and don't fit easily as you now use your R's, hense my suggestion to get them better mounted. After that I'd go for Caddock.

Have a look at http://www.percyaudio.com/Catalog.pdf Scroll down to page 12 for the Vishay. The Caddock are the pages above.

Michael Percy went off business a while ago but it seems they are going again. If you get problems it's worth checking out http://www.partsconnexion.com/

Both companies supply these quality resistors and in my trading experience are good and efficient to deal with. To date, never got stung for import duty.

Other than that, I believe what I'm suggesting is your best sound per pound. Works for me.

Best wishes,

Greg

Prince of Darkness
22-10-2008, 08:36
I've had great results with the Maplins in this applications. Tolerance is +-1%.:)

StanleyB
22-10-2008, 09:11
I crease up with laughter every time I read about suggestions that recommend components that are outside the official EC/EMC/VDU specifications. I also do the same when the components are within the EC/EMC/VDU specs, but are embossed with one or other expensive name. The public ( & DIYer) needs to know that they are being fleeced. Maybe a visit to a couple of Chinese production lines watching the girls loading up different packaging from different companies in the packaging machines whilst the production line rolls on might, just might, wake a few people up.

Resistance is resistance. There is no such thing as a 'better' resistance value through gold, silver, or lead. 1 ohms is 1 ohms, and so is 100K. What is important is the tolerance, wattage, and noise level of the resistance material. Anyone blew their Fututech fuse yet?

I myself had to laugh when I saw this happening with the printing machine that prints the name tag on the electrolytic caps that I use. The cost between the imprinted brand names varied, so I went for the cheapest use of ink:eyebrows:.

STan

Hozepipe
22-10-2008, 09:34
Thanks all for the replies, very helpful. I bought some Shinkoh 1% resistors from Hifi Collective since they are in the UK, and also some Takman carbon film resistors - they were only 50p so thought I'd give them a whirl and to have a spare set. I also picked up some silver solder (because the ARC kit comes with something similar) and a pair of chassis-mount RCAs (for my power amp which has had a snapped RCA shaft for a while, been meaning to get round to fixing it...). I only really wanted resistors that are the same as/as good as those used by ARC - the preamp is full of other similar components so I don't really see that it'll make much difference but don't want something that's LESS good, obviously (though those Shinkoh did happen to be quite expensive for what they are! :))

StanleyB
22-10-2008, 09:58
and also some Takman carbon film resistors - they were only 50p so thought I'd give them a whirl and to have a spare set.
Anyone ever heard of Phensic?

Ali Tait
22-10-2008, 18:02
Can't say I have.Do tell.

Hozepipe
22-10-2008, 18:40
Anyone ever heard of Phensic?

No but Beechams Powders are pretty much the same - I've got some in me now *cough, splutter*

Why?

shane
22-10-2008, 18:40
Headache? Take Phensic...

Cotlake
22-10-2008, 20:55
I crease up with laughter every time I read about suggestions that recommend components that are outside the official EC/EMC/VDU specifications. I also do the same when the components are within the EC/EMC/VDU specs, but are embossed with one or other expensive name. The public ( & DIYer) needs to know that they are being fleeced. Maybe a visit to a couple of Chinese production lines watching the girls loading up different packaging from different companies in the packaging machines whilst the production line rolls on might, just might, wake a few people up.

Resistance is resistance. There is no such thing as a 'better' resistance value through gold, silver, or lead. 1 ohms is 1 ohms, and so is 100K. What is important is the tolerance, wattage, and noise level of the resistance material. Anyone blew their Fututech fuse yet?

I myself had to laugh when I saw this happening with the printing machine that prints the name tag on the electrolytic caps that I use. The cost between the imprinted brand names varied, so I went for the cheapest use of ink:eyebrows:.

STan

Hi Stan,

Thank you for your condesending response. Sorry mate, regardless of your professional knowledge, without doubt, different resistors cause a piece of kit to sound different accordingly (you could work this out for yourself in your own kit if you wanted to). This is well known by DIYers and that is why people question on choice. Certainly those of us who choose to experiment on this are not being fleeced as you suggest. Actually we end up much better educated. In contrast, you most certainly are fleeced owing to your closed mind approach.

Resistor choice in certain applications is critical. What works well for shall we say valve cathode bias does not necessarily work in the signal path. My previous post relates to my experience of experimenting on this and what I personally find best. Please do not rubbish what I have said. Maybe you've never tried it for yourself? There is good foundation experience for my recommendation and there are plenty of other anoraks out there who have also discovered what I have suggested. I would not make a recommendation lightly. I've done this and know the truth of my claim, as ever IMHO. Let the ears test it.

I am not talking about the resistance properties as you say....resistance is resistance is resistance per se. However, without doubt different resistor construction results in different sounds. What I have advocated is, IME the best option for resistors directly in the signal path which will provide the best sound per pound and answers the original question.

Best wishes,

Greg

NRG
23-10-2008, 09:15
It's the same old argument Greg, we've heard it before, resistors are resistors and caps are caps as long as the value and part is within spec then it will do and anything else won't affect performance 'cause my measurements tell me so. Same tired argument as the one 'if it's not in the design guide then your'e doing it wrong and it cannot possibly be right'

Marco
23-10-2008, 09:26
Welcome back, Neil! Where have you been? :)

I don't think Stan is quite like you're making out. From my experience of knowing him he's certainly not a belligerent 'measurements type'. However I realise his comments above could be construed as such. Personally, I think it was just a failed attempt at being 'tongue-in-cheek' (hence the smiley used).

Let's wait and see what Stan comes back with.

Marco.

StanleyB
23-10-2008, 09:28
Is it an old argument though? Resistors and fuses are considered safety devices. Consequently there are a number of design and manufacturing rules that they have to conform to in both specification, material composition, and size. If they are not manufactured to those specs, they can be deemed illegal, and even a product warranty can be deemed void because of that.

If you say use a metal film instead of a carbon in a circuit, that is a different matter compared to recommending the use of metal film from brand x over brand Y. Then you are implying some deviation exists between the two. That would straight away imply that either brand Y or brand X is breaking the product approval rules, and with that the safety standard.

Hozepipe
23-10-2008, 09:34
I just ignore pontification on subjects as subjective as this. I bought some expensive ones, and some cheap ones, so I can find out myself (I know I'm not being scientific because they're also different construction types...)

Anyway, they haven't only just gone and plopped onto my door mat! I only ordered them yesterday. Well done Hifi Collective.

Thing is I may have bought the wrong values. Can someone help me?

Shinkoh 1k1 colours are (Thick stripe >) Brown Black Brown Brown

My ARC ones are 1k and Brown Black Black Black so that looks right, I think.

However, the cheaper ones which are supposed to be 1K have the colours (thick stripe >) *gap* Red Black Brown ???

I'm confused!:scratch:

leo
23-10-2008, 11:10
The thicker space goes to the right when reading the values

so the carbon ones would be Brown Black Red which is 1k for a 3 bander, I presume theres also Gold after the thicker space which is tol

Sounds like the Shinkoh is a 4 bander again any thick spacer goes to right Brown Brown Black Brown is 1k1

The tol can also be brown or red so it can cause confusion

Do you have a pic to confirm? its easier going from a piccy

Hozepipe
23-10-2008, 11:26
Thanks Leo, no pic but that makes sense. I just bunged on the 1k1 resistors and it sounds about the right balance (my system has other problems, but that's another story!)

s

Mike
23-10-2008, 17:47
Another little tip is to give them a quick measure with a meter, it's not unknown for some to have the wrong banding on them. I've never found one like that but I hear others have.

Hozepipe
24-10-2008, 13:53
Good tip. If anyone's interested, the carbon film cheapo resisters sound pretty good to me, haven't wanted to desolder them yet for the Shinkohs...

s

johnrtd
15-11-2008, 15:14
The most commonly used resistors are the metal film type. They're small and can handle some power. The film is constructed in a spiral around a ceramic substract. So it also is a coil with some induction (never specified!). The common tolerance is 1% (5 rings with the last one brown).
There still are some old fashioned carbon types. They can be recognised because there's no "cap" at the ends. The connection wire is pushed in the center core of the carbon roll. This type holds carbon pressed in one piece. So there's no "ceramic roll", it's just a massive piece of carbon. So there's hardly an inductance. This type has a tolerance of 10 or even 20%. But it's prefered by a lot of tube lovers!
Also available is a more "modern" type of carbon resistor. That one has caps on both ends. It's conctructed as a spiral around a ceramic roll. So there's induction again. Tolerances are 5 or 10%.

A different way to improve the "sound quality" is using bigger types, i.e. 1 Watt types. Those have less noise while still having a tolerance of 1% (metal film type).

Another way to improve the result is using small metal film ones but using two in parallel. In doing so the total induction will go lower and noise also decreases. The value should be twice the wanted value.

John

Mike
15-11-2008, 15:31
Another way to improve the result is using small metal film ones but using two in parallel. In doing so the total induction will go lower and noise also decreases. The value should be twice the wanted value.

Ah!... nice to hear I'm doing something right. :)

I'm actually using parallel Shinkoh's at the moment. I've also got a selection of those Takman resistors to try when I modify my phono stage to switchable loading, which should be interesting.

http://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/takman_resistors.html


Cheers...

johnrtd
16-11-2008, 08:59
Looking around at that site you'll see that almost all resistors do have "caps" and are "spiralled" so forming an inductor. The only type made out of solid carbon is the Allen Bradley one.
As said this brand is not in production any more. Happily some Chinese manufacturers now offer the same type of resistor.

John