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View Full Version : Never mind crystals, try Cillit Bang



steveinfrance
20-07-2011, 08:54
I expect I'll get my tone arm formally broken over a Moderator's knee for this but ....I bought some VG+ (ie unplayable) LPs from EBay.
I've got two cartridges for my 1210, a Stanton 500 which tracks using the technique of a snow plough and an AT125LC which is more like the proverbial cat on a hot tin roof. Anyway neither would have anything to do with these records. Having nothing to lose (and, admittedly having also taken some Red Medicine to help my sadness) I equipped myself as follows
One old terry towel
A teaspoon of Cillit Bang
A window cleaner spray bottle washed out and filled with deionised water
A paint brush
A paper towel
A microfibre cloth
Another, larger, glass of wine.
Technique
Spray record with water to wash off the most obvious rubble
Lay wet record on old towel, wet side up
Add Cillit Bang
Use paint brush anti-clockwise (this turned out to be important) to work up a good uniform lather
Finish wine while the evil chemicals dissolve the vinyl
Give it another stir with the paint brush
Spray the grey suds off with water
Blot dry with paper towel
Polish (again anticlockwise) with the microfibre cloth.
Result - a near perfect LP, no background noise and eminently trackable with both carts.
It worked on all the bum records (doesn't, of course, remove scratches).
Brushing anticlockwise gives much better results presumably because it is tending to lift crud that's been burnished down in the other direction.
Wine not essential but strongly recommended (the cleaned records still sounded OK in the morning). I was going to make an ultrasonic record cleaner - I don't think I'll bother now.
Someone else want to try this on a useless record and let me know?

Alex_UK
20-07-2011, 10:46
A man after my own heart - I've tried a few unusual methods in my time... My only concern would be traces of Cillit Bang not being totally removed, which is where a good vacuum comes in - like on a proper RCM - however I've used my Dyson "soft dusting brush (http://www.dyson.co.uk/store/accessoriesDetails.asp?accessory=ACC-SOFTDUSTINGBRUSH&product=GEN-ACCESS)" to good effect (the miniscule amounts of water don't seem to do any harm and probably get absorbed by the crud in the cleaner) - what you can't see from the link is that the underside of the attachgment is a velvet pad - doesn't seem to do any harm to the records.

Other than that - good call - but I think you forgot one step before the blotting - a glass of wine! ;)

steveinfrance
20-07-2011, 11:13
Other than that - good call - but I think you forgot one step before the blotting - a glass of wine! ;)

I assumed that would be understood.
CD's drove me to wine - it was the only way I could make them sound OK.
That was forty years ago since when I've consumed more units of alcohol than HMG reckons would be safe for the entire population of London.
The problem is a decent Merlot/Sauvignon here has gone up to €1.65 a litre now so this record cleaning method is actually quite expensive.

Alex_UK
20-07-2011, 18:45
Well Cillit Bang certainly cleaned up Whitney. Needed a bit of help with an electric toothbrush, but don't worry - the chemicals won't do me any harm - I used the wife's! :eyebrows: (Actually I used a paintbrush like Steve suggested.)

http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu259/Alex_Steel1969/hifi/IMG_5644_1.jpg?t=1311187223

(No, that isn't what it looks like. Well I don't think it is, I was rather fond of her as a teenager...!)

http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu259/Alex_Steel1969/hifi/IMG_5645_1.jpg?t=1311187393

Still crackly as hell though, which is more due to the millions of little scratches I think...

More experimentation needed.

steveinfrance
20-07-2011, 18:54
Give it another dose (and yourself, of course) then play it with a cheapo cart as soon as you've buffed it. You'll find an amazing amount of shite on the stylus first time, then it will be silent and luvverly.
Let me know how you get on - I think the 'scratches' are just ingrained crap. They all went (apart from obvious repeating clicks) on my LPs with some perseverence.
Steve

Alex_UK
20-07-2011, 19:14
Okey dokey, I'll have another go. :)

ursus262
20-07-2011, 19:47
Give it another dose (and yourself, of course) then play it with a cheapo cart as soon as you've buffed it. You'll find an amazing amount of shite on the stylus first time, then it will be silent and luvverly.
Let me know how you get on - I think the 'scratches' are just ingrained crap. They all went (apart from obvious repeating clicks) on my LPs with some perseverence.
Steve
Maybe the Cilit Bang is dissolving the scratches.... and the grooves as well, hence the silence :lol:

My partner uses Record Revirginiser on his old stuff, with highly satisfactory results. I've threatened to use CB on his prize Beatles LPs, but he's threatened to dissolve our Civil Partnership :lol:

keiths
20-07-2011, 20:20
Maybe the Cilit Bang is dissolving the scratches.... and the grooves as well, hence the silence :lol:

"BANG, and the grooves are gone" :lol:

ursus262
20-07-2011, 20:33
"BANG, and the grooves are gone" :lol:

Nice one! :lol:

steveinfrance
21-07-2011, 07:18
Nice one! :lol:

Mock ye may but work it does!
I'm sure I don't have to tell you that vinyl isn't soluble in much at all -
Excellent resistance (no attack) to Dilute and Concentrated Acids, Alcohols, Bases, Aliphatic Hydrocarbons and Mineral Oils
Good resistance (minor attack) to Vegetable Oils and Oxidizing Agents
Limited resistance (moderate attack and suitable for short term use only) to Aldehydes
Poor resistance (not recommended for use) with Aldehydes, Esters, Aromatic and Halogenated Hydrocarbons, and Ketones.
Cillit Bang comes in a PVC bottle with its silly name on it so it is unlikely to be aggressive towards vinyl. It is a very clever formulation specifically designed to remove all sorts of crud which it does very well.
I believe your record revirginiser is just white wood glue (like Resin W), an aqeous solution of polyvinyl alcohol.It's a lot more expensive and fiddlier to use than my method.

ursus262
21-07-2011, 16:41
Well, we've come to a compromise in that we are going to use the cruddiest 45rpm single.

Only one slight problem: Ocado don't sell it any more, so I'll have go actually go out into a supermarket and shop with the masses :eek::lol:

sq225917
22-07-2011, 12:06
Given that cillet bang will dissolve 2p piece its probably not the best stuff for records.

steveinfrance
22-07-2011, 12:17
Given that cillet bang will dissolve 2p piece its probably not the best stuff for records.

As mentioned above it is clever stuff and probably contains oxalic acid as a detartrant. Neither copper nor vinyl is soluble in oxalic acid. Copper is soluble in concentrated nitric acid but vinyl isn't.
If you've actually seen a 2p piece dissolving in something that something wasn't Cillit Bang!
Steve

steveinfrance
22-07-2011, 12:19
Well, we've come to a compromise in that we are going to use the cruddiest 45rpm single.

Only one slight problem: Ocado don't sell it any more, so I'll have go actually go out into a supermarket and shop with the masses :eek::lol:

Nasty thought - at least you don't have to go to WallMart !
Good luck, keep us posted.
Steve

technobear
22-07-2011, 18:52
Only one slight problem: Ocado don't sell it any more, so I'll have go actually go out into a supermarket and shop with the masses :eek::lol:

You'll probably find it in your local Lidl or Aldi ;)

It may have a silly name but it does work. It's brilliant on the cooker hob.

steveinfrance
23-07-2011, 09:19
Given that cillet bang will dissolve 2p piece its probably not the best stuff for records.

Not quite 24 hours in the dreaded gloop but I got bored. These coins are copper plated steel (don't know how thick the plating is). I think there may be some frosting of the surface but it's hard to tell.

Andrei
09-11-2012, 11:27
The problem is a decent Merlot/Sauvignon here has gone up to €1.65 a litre now so this record cleaning method is actually quite expensive.

LUXURY! Where I come from we can only dream of €1.65 a litre

Reffc
10-11-2012, 17:30
I'd urge caution. Just because something cleans an LP doesn't mean it hasn't also damaged it or could be bad for stylii.

Vinyl is made from special polymers which have plasticisers in them. LPs are not immune to damage from chemicals at all and alcohol WILL damage them in anything other than dilute solutions (never exceed 35% Alcohol when cleaning LPs as a solution with de-ionised/demineralised water). As to concentrated acids? Why would you :eek:

I hate to think what's in Cillet Bang but remember that it's not just the LP you have to consider but the effects of the residue on the stylus. Some stylii are glued on these days so using concentrated solvents to clean stylii is not a good idea either for that reason.

When 99.99% pure lab grade IPA is so readily available along with distilled water, why experiment on your precious recordings or kit when the IPA/DI water remains the choice of many archivists today and with good reason. Just add a couple of drops of wetting agent to a 75%/25% distilled water/IPA solution and you have an excellent LP cleaning solution.

DSJR
10-11-2012, 18:32
which is where a good vacuum comes in - like on a proper RCM - however I've used my Dyson "soft dusting brush (http://www.dyson.co.uk/store/accessoriesDetails.asp?accessory=ACC-SOFTDUSTINGBRUSH&product=GEN-ACCESS)" to good effect (the miniscule amounts of water don't seem to do any harm and probably get absorbed by the crud in the cleaner) - what you can't see from the link is that the underside of the attachgment is a velvet pad - doesn't seem to do any harm to the records.



I think the odd droplet of water is fine inside a Dyson, but I remember our DC7 needing a new Cyclone unit once (under warranty thankfully) because some water got into the machine and clogged up all the root-cyclone bits above the clear bin, the thing losing most of its suction in the process. Even so, the dust needs banging out of this part at the same time as the bin is emptied, so be warned ;)

GREAT job to all on the cleaning of the records :cool:

Cotlake
10-11-2012, 20:01
I'd urge caution. Just because something cleans an LP doesn't mean it hasn't also damaged it or could be bad for stylii.

Yep, I concur. Furthermore, after certain chemical applications, LP's can look very clean and unscratched just as in Alex's second photo at the start of this thread when infact, they are still as cruddy as hell.

We have a secondhand trader in Bristol who does no other cleaning than to wipe the surface with a cloth soaked in cigarette lighter petrol. It doesn't clean the grooves, tends to make scratch marks less visible and leaves a presentation that's so acceptable the ignorant punter is happy to buy. I learnt the hard way, buying albums that looked good but sounded crap. I was in the store one day and witnessed his cleaning process.

I don't go there anymore.

pure sound
29-11-2012, 11:06
If there is crud to be driven into the grooves the cartridge will do that counter clockwise. The record will be turning clockwise but surely the cartridge is acting against that rotation.