Search for the 'ultimate' 12AX7/ECC83 valves

[Marco]

Guys,

I'm after the best of the above available to use in my Croft preamp. Mikey reckons the Telefunken ECC 803 S (shown in link below) is the one. Already owing Telefunken ECC83 'long smooth-plates', and finding them superb, I wouldn't disagree.

http://wec5.jp/Catalog/Tube/telefunken-ecc803-s-1.html

So for those with experience of both valves, how much better are the 803s compared to the 83 'long smooth-plates', or is it all just over-the-top hype?

Also, is there any other type of 'ultimate' 12AX7/ECC83s I should look at? I've heard 5751s are good. What about these Amperex ones:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Amperex-12AX7-5751-7025-ECC83-Radio-Amplifier-Tube-NOS_W0QQitemZ160290301961QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item1 60290301961&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C 240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14#

All advice greatly appreciated!

Marco.

[Mike]

Also, is there any other type of 'ultimate' 12AX7/ECC83s I should look at? I've heard 5751s are good.

I've got a spare NOS General Electric Co. JAN5751 that you can have. I'll pop it in the post mate.

[Marco]

Some man - cheers!

What are your views on this mate?

Marco.

[Mike]

The 5751 is a nice valve TBH. I don't think these particular examples will go down in history as one of the best valves of all time, but they sound nice enough. Not as over hyped as some ECC83/12AX7's and therefore nowhere near as expensive. Slightly less gain too.

[Marco]

Does anyone know the actual differences between the Tele 803 and 83 - is it better anode quality or what? What makes the 803 better?

Marco.

[Mike]

It's all in one of those links I sent you...

[Marco]

Ah, cheers Mike!

Marco.

[Marco]

The information contained in the link was so interesting that I think it deserves to be posted here:

http://www.jacmusic.com/nos/ECC83-part-numbering1.html

Why did the guy include a Mullard M8137 - is that also a Frame Grid valve or is it just another high quality, sought after, ECC83?

The Tesla E83CC also looked interesting. I'll need to check out those, too.

Marco.

[Marco]

Another interesting read where a guy compares various top-notch 12AX7/ECC83s:

http://hktubeaudio.homestead.com/files/12AX7.html

I've never heard of the Mullard 10M Master Series 6267 before. Has anyone got any experience of these? I'll be checking it out, though!

Here's a pic:

http://www.tubemongerlib.com/gallery2/v/EF86/Mullard+10M+Master+Series+6267+EF86+2+-+Possible+Tesla+or+some+other+source.jpg.html

Marco.

[anthonyTD]

marco,
you realy must concentrate,[was probably what was on your school report] your looking at EF86's why???:lolsign:

[Marco]

:confused: :lol:

Is that not the valves the guy was referring to in his test? He mentioned a "Mullard 10M master series" when comparing the various ECC83s. Obviously I've found the wrong picture :eyebrows:

So, oh great one, have you heard these 'uber' Mullard valves of which this chap speaks so highly of?

To quote him:


And the result? Well, I think this time we have a clear winner, which is the Mullard 10M Master Series 12AX7. Perhaps a short history about this tube first. The 10M Series is a special selected type of , I believe, early 70’s Mullard, which is "aged", tested and then plated its pins with gold. The structure of the 10M 12AX7 is the same as the Mullard yellow label short plate 12AX7. But the sound is so very different. Each of this tube is guaranteed for 10,000 hours of usage i.e. the name 10M. It is quite rare and the street price in Hong Kong should be around the same as the Telefunken 803S.


Me want!

Marco.

[Mike]

Marco.... It stinks!

Beware!... My alarm bells go off as soon as 'Mullard' and 'Hong Kong' are mentioned in the same paragraph.

I could be wrong, but I don't think Mullard ever produced a '12AX7', that is American nomenclature.

[Slatedeck]

Not so sure about that Mike?

I have about 150 military released NOS Mullards printed as 12AU7 (ECC82)

I'm pretty sure Mullard also badged ECC83s as 12AX7 as well in the later years to appeal to the American market and the Millitary.

[Mike]

Hi Darren,

Fair enough, I can see how they might have labeled them accourdingly for the American market now you mention it. :)

Ever heard of these though? "Mullard 10M Master Series 12AX7"

As far as I can tell, they only seem to exist on ebay or in Hong Kong! :scratch:

[Slatedeck]

Nope, never heard of them :scratch:

[Marco]

Guys,

Thanks for your input - your concern is noted!

It looked a bit 'new' to me, so I was a bit wary. I'm only after genuine top-notch NOS valves.

I've managed to source some genuine NOS Tesla E83CC, so as they appear to be highly rated 'Frame Grid' valves I'll probably give them a go. The Telefunken 803 S seem somewhat overpriced, even for me!

I don't mind paying 'hi-fi enthusiast' prices for NOS valves but not 'collectors items' prices (almost like valuable antiques I sometimes buy), if you see my meaning :)

'Sound-per-pound' is where it's at always! I will not be ripped off.

Marco.

[Slatedeck]

Sorry my mistake, mine are badged CV4003 not 12AU7 so you may be right Mike?

CV4003 is the military No for 12AU7/ECC82 and CV4004 is for the 12AX7/ECC83

Just checked.....opps, soz.

Holds head in shame

[Marco]

Guys,

What's your view of the Mullard M8137? Is it just another Mullard ECC83 under a different name, or is there anything particularly special about it?

In the hierarchy of Telefunken 803s and Tesla E83CC, etc, how does it rank? Basically, I'm only after something which would be considered superior to my Telefunken ECC83 long 'smooth-plates'.

Marco.

P.S Darren, you don't have any Telefunken 803 S, I suppose? :)

[Prince of Darkness]

How about this?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=9733220824&cguid=fc17176411c0a0e20536da46ffecf88d

I imagine Mullard would use the American designations for valves exported to the U.S.
Another valve that might be worth considering is the new TechTube.

http://www.techtubevalves.com/index.php

Anyone heard these?

[Slatedeck]

Hi Marco,

I have about 200 used 83s in my stash and have tried just about every type in my self built phono stage. (True Realism)

Now I know this is likely to cause some debate amongst the die hards, but most valves sound the same except for the Mullards and sovteks.

One of the above is at the top and the other should never have been forced onto us poor souls.

Never tried the 803's though.

[Marco]

Regarding the 'Mullard 10M Master Series 12AX7', I've just received this feedback from my regular NOS valve supplier in the States:


Actually Mullard 10M tubes are totally overrated. Basically these were regular ECC83 tubes that were made for longer life and tested at the factory. You may get similar results to these from late 1950s Regular Mullards...


Well, that's that one crossed off the list!

Marco.

[Slatedeck]

How about this?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=9733220824&cguid=fc17176411c0a0e20536da46ffecf88d

I imagine Mullard would use the American designations for valves exported to the U.S.



Hard to tell from a pic, that looks like a long plate?

If I could find my stash I'd let you know, they are all pulls from vintage equipment.

Edit:
Doah, heading says it's a long plate
Note to self: "Read description before putting boot in mouth !!"

[Marco]

Views on Mullard M8137s, Darren? :)

Marco.

[Slatedeck]

Views on Mullard M8137s, Darren? :)

Marco.

Never had one to try Marco,

Currently in my pre are two Blue printed Mazda's and two Mullards,

Perhaps if we meet up I can lend you a few to try?

[Marco]

Sounds good to me :smoking:

Marco.

[Slatedeck]

All this talk of valves,

I moved here just over a year ago and still my main amp still in pieces here and there. Bout time it sang again.

The PX4's are ok but, but, but, I want "MORE SHOUT" :lolsign:

[Mike]

Guys,

What's your view of the Mullard M8137?

AKA - CV4004. You've tried one! :) The standard ECC83 is CV492 (I think)

The M8137 (or CV4004 in army speak) is an 'SQ' version (or 'reliable valve') of the ECC83, I have an article from the 50's covering this. I'll forward a photo-copy.... SQ = Special Quality.

Marco... We've been through this before ya big daft muppet!!!

[Slatedeck]

AKA - CV4004. You've tried one! :) The standard ECC83 is CV492 (I think)

Oooh, is the Cv4004 the same as M8137 then, can we confirm this?

[Mike]

Oooh, is the Cv4004 the same as M8137 then, can we confirm this?


Yes!

[Slatedeck]

In that case I have some and not tried them as yet.

Now then, where....are they :scratch:

[Mike]

Ah!...here we go!

Just type the CV number (including 'CV') into the box on the page linked to bellow and all should be revealed!

http://www.tubecollector.org/cv/cv.php


Cheers....

[Slatedeck]

Just found a NOS CV4024 !!

Must try it....ok it's not a CV4004 but my pre can take it....

[Mike]

Oooh, is the Cv4004 the same as M8137 then, can we confirm this?

Oh hang in a moment. A CV type valve could have been supplied to the military by any number of manufacturers.

To be sure it is a Mullard M8137 (for example) you would need to look-up the acid etched code on the side.

BUT!... a CV4004 IS an SQ ECC83 type valve, but not necessarily a Mullard M8137.

[Marco]

AKA - CV4004. You've tried one! :) The standard ECC83 is CV492 (I think)

The M8137 (or CV4004 in army speak) is an 'SQ' version (or 'reliable valve') of the ECC83, I have an article from the 50's covering this. I'll forward a photo-copy.... SQ = Special Quality.

Marco... We've been through this before ya big daft muppet!!!


LOL, yes I know, but I've never dealt with any valves marked as 'M8137'. I thought it was a totally different valve!

Anyway, I can safely cross those off my list. Meanwhile here's a picture of the Teslas I've ordered:

http://www.tubemonger.com/PhotoGallery.asp?ProductCode=261

I'm quite hopeful about these... I think they'll be pretty much idential sounding to the Tele 803s, being a proper NOS Frame Grid design.

If they're better than the 'smooth plate' Tele ECC83s I've got (I have three in total), you can have first refusal on them :)

Marco.

[Mike]

I hope you thoroughly read that bit on the link about fakes? :eyebrows:

[Marco]

Yep, these definitely aren't fakes. This guy only deals in genuine NOS. It's where I got my Brimar CV1985s and Tung Sol black-glass 6SU7GTYs from, which have transformed the Croft into something rather extra special :eyebrows:

Marco.

[Mike]

Nice one....

Let me know how you get on.

I might be interested in the Tele's and I might not, I had one before, as we discussed, and preferred the Mullard's, though to be fair it didn't test too well. There was a definite imbalance between the two halves.

Alternatively, if you don't like the Tesla's I'd be interested in trying those too. :)

[Marco]

That must have been a duffer, Mikey. Teles are great valves, and better than any Mullards I've heard. The Teslas will have to go some to beat them!

Here's another - anyone got any experience of Marconi B339s (shown here, first from the left):

http://www.tubemongerlib.com/gallery2/v/12AX7/Mullard+ECC83+1960s+Halo+Various+Labels+Marconi+Tu ngsram+Mullard+Old+Shield+Etc+-+Blackburn+Gt_+Britain.jpg.html

Or Amperex 'Bugle Boy':

http://www.tubemongerlib.com/gallery2/v/12AX7/Amperex+Philips+ECC83+12AX7+1960s+Halo+Getter+Bugl e+Boy+Label+2-+Heerlen+Holland.jpg.html

Or are they effectively just 'ordinary' re-badged Mullards?

Marco.

[Slatedeck]

Ok, some searching, for something else I might add, and I came across a bunch of Mullard 12AX7's

All mine are vintage pulls so no fakes. That should clear that one up :)

[Mike]

Or are they effectively just 'ordinary' re-badged Mullards?

They're Dutch, so more likely to be Phillips type. Sought after and often faked apparently.

[Marco]

Does that also apply to the Marconi?

Basically, I just wondered if either the Marconi or Amperex (presuming genuine examples) were better than a bog-standard Mullard.

Marco.

[Mike]

Dunno...

I think you might struggle to find a Marconi.

[Mike]

And then again....

http://www.uk192.com/link1.asp?id=112

[Marco]

Yep, I spied that site yesterday. It could be worth a punt as back-up :)

Marco.

[The Grand Wazoo]

Been away for a bit..................been away quite a lot lately...........sorry to pick up on this so late.

I've got some Mullard M8137's in my ARC SP8 - on the phono stage. They're the best ECC83/12AX7 types I've ever used. I find Telefunkens impressive at first, but too squeaky clean & clinical after a while. I wouldn't use them now at all unless I had to, they're way over-rated in my experience....however, that's not to say that they're not right in other applications and for other folks ears.

I've always found myself going back to Mullards for the phono stage - they're magical with the Koetsu. I like 5751's too, I use them on my line stage (& they're cheap & reliable, but more importantly, they're quiet). The mixture of the 2 types works best for me.

It's well worth spending some time and a little cash finding the right type for yourself though.

................I have a stash of old Valvo's somewhere as well, which I seem to remember quite liking.

[Marco]

Interesting. I know exactly what you mean about Telefunkens; they do have that kind of sound, but I'd call it more 'neutral' and 'lacking in character' than "squeaky clean and clinical", and that's exactly what I'm looking for in valves or cables.

Like you say, it depends on your ears and the type of sound you like. I have a very well-balanced, neutral sounding, (ruthlessly) revealing system and if any valves or cables exhibit a pronounced sonic signature (warm, bass heavy, forward, clinical or whatever) I can hear it straight away and won't like its effect.

I'm not saying you're like this, but I'm not after a 'cuddly', 'rose-tinted' valve sound - what I want is for valves to impose as little sonic signature on the sound as possible and simply reproduce the music in the most natural and realistic way. The Telefunkens do that very well to my ears, whereas I find Mullards have a more pronounced bottom and top end, which gets in the way with some types of music.

The results may well be different in your system, though, and I haven't heard M8137s (unless they're identical to the CV4004s Mike sent me) so they might give a different result. Thanks for you input though - if you've got any other info on this subject please feel free to contribute :)

Marco.

[The Grand Wazoo]

..............well-balanced,


The Telefunkens do that very well to my ears, whereas I find Mullards have a more pronounced bottom and top end, which gets in the way with some types of music.
Marco.

"Balanced" There ya go...........that's the word!

I would suggest we're all on identical seesaws, but we're just using different combinations of weights to get the balance right.

............If either of us wanted rose tinted, we'd be using 300B's & trying to kid ourselves that there was any bass beyond that soggy wet blanket.

[Slatedeck]

............If either of us wanted rose tinted, we'd be using 300B's & trying to kid ourselves that there was any bass beyond that soggy wet blanket.

Well said,,,,

I once used the 4300a WE valves in an attempt to get a good 300b amp, whilst better than any other 300b I tried it was still as you describe.

There are some other "sought" after valves that I just can't fathom to add to the list...........:scratch:

[Marco]

TGW,


"Balanced" There ya go...........that's the word!

I would suggest we're all on identical seesaws, but we're just using different combinations of weights to get the balance right.

............If either of us wanted rose tinted, we'd be using 300B's & trying to kid ourselves that there was any bass beyond that soggy wet blanket.

Yep, I'd go with that :)

So you're not a 300B fan, then? I like the World Designs one (now discontinued) - that sounded really nice, but others I've heard have been disappointing in the way you describe.

Marco.

[SPS]

Well said,,,,

I once used the 4300a WE valves in an attempt to get a good 300b amp, whilst better than any other 300b I tried it was still as you describe.

There are some other "sought" after valves that I just can't fathom to add to the list...........:scratch:

Darren,
I thought that after listening to so many 300b amps..

But... I have a pair of 4300a they have been tried in nicks amp at owston and at my place, in simons amp at mine.. with simons amp the very slightly loose bass tightened up with them in..no saggy bass,

I'm running px4 and px25 and 2p at the moment they are all very close to the 4300a .. so much so i'm going to build an amp for them...
my view of 300b's has changed over the years.. as my kit has improved..
again i'm using easily driven, effecient speakers.. just what the valves where where designed to drive in the 30's ..
I think the 4300a do something very special.. but you just cannot stick them in an amp and hope they work.. speakers and the amp need to be right..for the job

steve

[Slatedeck]

Darren,
I thought that after listening to so many 300b amps..

But... I have a pair of 4300a they have been tried in nicks amp at owston and at my place, in simons amp at mine.. with simons amp the very slightly loose bass tightened up with them in..no saggy bass,

I think the 4300a do something very special.. but you just cannot stick them in an amp and hope they work.. speakers and the amp need to be right..for the job

steve

Hi Steve, by your credentials I assume Steve S, nice to see you here.

I'm only pullin' on you but your statement above is a tad contradictory :lol:

I know you have been seriously messing about with PX4s & 25s for years as you know I have been doing the same.
There is no doubt, and I'm sure you'll agree, the PX4 tops the 300B for sound.
I'm still using mine, even right now, but I have to be honest whilst a beautiful valve in many respects the bass is a tad bloomy and at times overpowering.

It all comes down to the rest of the system as you quite rightly say, therefore I expect with Lowthers this doesn't present any problems for you. What you will get though is a good decent output from what is a low output triode.

The PX25 is a far better valve, it's almost perfect, the base bloom is gone, wonderful, you might say. But I feel it takes the base along with it leaving a very precise but sometime clinical valve. Excellent in it's own right of course as it the 300B.

But, and it's a very subjective and personal but indeed.

When you have built a powerful SE valve amp, I'm talking over 50W at least you (or certainly I) begin to realise what is available.

One interesting and positive fact that I have noticed in my latest amp, albeit now 2yrs old and still fiddling, is the hum, or lack of it.

I think you'll agree, reducing hum from any directly heated triode can at times be very time consuming, if not possible to eradicate altogether. I certainly couldn't on my PX4 even with pure DC heating. But when the 833 was added as a final stage the hum being fed from the PX4 vanished.
Totally !!
I know not why, but it's a welcome relief all the same. :)

[SPS]

Hi Steve, by your credentials I assume Steve S, nice to see you here.

I'm only pullin' on you but your statement above is a tad contradictory :lol:

I know you have been seriously messing about with PX4s & 25s for years as you know I have been doing the same.
There is no doubt, and I'm sure you'll agree, the PX4 tops the 300B for sound.
I'm still using mine, even right now, but I have to be honest whilst a beautiful valve in many respects the bass is a tad bloomy and at times overpowering.

It all comes down to the rest of the system as you quite rightly say, therefore I expect with Lowthers this doesn't present any problems for you. What you will get though is a good decent output from what is a low output triode.

The PX25 is a far better valve, it's almost perfect, the base bloom is gone, wonderful, you might say. But I feel it takes the base along with it leaving a very precise but sometime clinical valve. Excellent in it's own right of course as it the 300B.

But, and it's a very subjective and personal but indeed.

When you have built a powerful SE valve amp, I'm talking over 50W at least you (or certainly I) begin to realise what is available.

One interesting and positive fact that I have noticed in my latest amp, albeit now 2yrs old and still fiddling, is the hum, or lack of it.

I think you'll agree, reducing hum from any directly heated triode can at times be very time consuming, if not possible to eradicate altogether. I certainly couldn't on my PX4 even with pure DC heating. But when the 833 was added as a final stage the hum being fed from the PX4 vanished.
Totally !!
I know not why, but it's a welcome relief all the same. :)

the very same steve.. Daren

very contradictory comments about the 4300a.. i know
i'm suprised.. i never thought i would say that ...
but thats my view at the moment..

as you know i've no interest in high output amps..
when i hear one that sounds better( in my veiw) than what i use. i may change my mind..
and i've changed my mind on things lots of times may I add...

but to be fair i don't need 'watts' or 'drive',with the speakers

i dont think i get any bass bloom, just different depths of bass extension
the globes seem to go a tad deeper.. px25s are very nice.
i used to get some bloom with the horns, but not with the baffles..
i found i myself using transmiter valves, they sounded better with the horns as the bass was not quite as deep, the det25 sounded very nice, but the
the quality audio triodes are something else with the baffles..
you should listen to them.. owston?


steve

[Slatedeck]

Yes I should come along sometime for a listen....

Isn't if funny how different people take different paths in the same field....
For a long time now I've found it both interesting and educational in how different people strive for different goals.

Long may it continue :)

[Ali Tait]

I heard Steve's 300a's in Nick's amp at a previous Owston.Difficult to describe,but these valves did things I've heard no others do.Entrancing I think is the best way to describe it.They just seemed to draw you into the music in a way I've not experienced before.It's really worth coming Darren if you can make it.

[Mike]

Another valve that might be worth considering is the new TechTube.

http://www.techtubevalves.com/index.php

Anyone heard these?

Does anyone know if these are available yet?

I fancy trying one. :)

[Marco]

When you do let me know what they're like. I have a feeling they could be quite good :)

Marco.

[Marco]

Tesla E83CCs will be arriving at the beginning of this week, so a full write-up and comparison against the Telefunken ECC83 long 'smooth-plate' currently gracing the Croft (along with my thoughts on the 5751 Mike kindly sent) will be posted then :)

Marco.

[Marco]

Ok, the Teslas have arrived and I'm not disappointed!

It was definitely worth the effort of doing some research and scouring the Net for the 'ultimate' ECC83/12AX7. The Telefunken 803 S may still be it, but I'm simply not willing to pay the stupid money these attract. The Tesla E83CC is also a rare frame grid type and highly sought after, and having listened to its sonic effect, and most importantly its impact on music, is well worth the £110 I paid to have two boxed and completely unused ones imported from the States.

So what does it do?

Well, what I've learned from experimenting with valves is that each valve of the same type from different manufacturers and vintages has its own 'sonic signature' due to varying construction techniques and materials used - in effect an artifice added to the sound which deviates from neutrality. Now of course we could debate forever what is deemed as 'neutral', as different systems and different tastes dictate what that is to an extent, but through experience of listening to various types of valves your ears become attuned to what's 'right' and what's 'wrong' in that sense in the same way as with hi-fi equipment, cables, and anything else.

To that effect, the Tesla E83CC is the most 'right' sounding ECC83-type valve I've heard and it now replaces in the Croft my previous benchmark - the Telefunken ECC83 long 'smooth plate'. Before I tried the Tesla the Telefunken was the most 'neutral' sounding ECC83 I'd heard, but as good as it was, the Tesla has shown it to be rather 'synthetic' sounding with an artificially pronounced midrange which adds a superficial 'excitement factor' that is not faithful to the music signal, and some grain, lending a false 'patina' to vocals and also a somewhat 'processed' quality. Also, the Telefunken's overall presentation is a little on the cool side and consequently doesn't fully flesh out music's naturally imbued palette of tonal colours.

What the Tesla brings to the party is more 'beauty' with music and an expressiveness that sounds natural and convincing. In effect, it has less of a 'sound' than any other ECC83 I've tried and consequently appears to add very little of a sonic signature to music. This is exactly what I want from a valve or any piece of equipment or cable for that matter. It also seems that the Tesla has less 'noise', less coloration, and perhaps is less microphonic (due to its frame grid construction) than any other ECC83s I've used and this as much as anything else is probably why it sounds so good. Quite simply, low noise is absolutely crucial in high gain valves of this type.

To conclude then, the Tesla E83CC is the best valve of its type I've heard and quite exceptional value in a sound-per-pound sense considering what Telefunken 803s sell for now. If you're looking to squeeze every last drop of performance from suitable valve equipment and consequently enjoy the full drama and majesty of your music collection (isn't this what hi-fi is about?) which quite simply won't happen with cost specified, performance constrained, manufacturer selected current production valves in new equipment, the E83CC is a no-brainer choice for the discerning enthusiast. It is an excellent example of the special sonic qualities given by top quality NOS valves.

Marco.

[SPS]

Ok, the Teslas have arrived and I'm not disappointed!

It was definitely worth the effort of doing some research and scouring the Net for the 'ultimate' ECC83. The Telefunken 803 S may still be it, but I'm simply not willing to pay the stupid money these attract. The Tesla E83CC is also a rare frame grid type and highly sought after, and having listened to its sonic effect, and most importantly its impact on music, is well worth the £110 I paid to have two boxed and completely unused ones imported from the States.

So what does it do?

Well, what I've learned from experimenting with valves is that each valve of the same type from different manufacturers and vintages has its own 'sonic signature' due to varying construction techniques and materials used - in effect an artifice added to the sound which deviates from neutrality. Now of course we could debate forever what is deemed as 'neutral', as different systems and different tastes dictate what that is to an extent, but through experience of listening to various types of valves your ears become attuned to what's 'right' and what's 'wrong' in that sense in the same way as with hi-fi equipment, cables, and anything else.

To that effect, the Tesla E83CC is the most 'right' sounding ECC83-type valve I've heard and it now replaces in the Croft my previous benchmark - the Telefunken ECC83 long 'smooth plate'. Before I tried the Tesla the Telefunken was the most 'neutral' sounding ECC83 I'd heard, but as good as it was, the Tesla has shown it to be rather 'synthetic' sounding with an artificially pronounced midrange which adds a superficial 'excitement factor' that is not faithful to the music signal, and some grain, lending a false 'patina' to vocals and also a somewhat 'processed' quality. Also, the Telefunken's overall presentation is a little on the cool side and consequently doesn't fully flesh out music's naturally imbued palette of tonal colours.

What the Tesla brings to the party is more 'beauty' with music and an expressiveness that sounds natural and convincing. In effect, it has less of a 'sound' than any other ECC83 I've tried and consequently appears to add very little of a sonic signature to music. This is exactly what I want from a valve or any piece of equipment or cable for that matter. It also seems that the Tesla has less 'noise', less coloration, and perhaps is less microphonic (due to its frame grid construction) than any other ECC83s I've used and this as much as anything else is probably why it sounds so good. Quite simply, low noise is absolutely crucial in high gain valves of this type.

To conclude then, the Tesla E83CC is the best valve of its type I've heard and quite exceptional value in a sound-per-pound sense considering what Telefunken 803s sell for now. If you're looking to squeeze every last drop of performance from suitable valve equipment and consequently enjoy the full drama and majesty of your music collection (isn't this what hi-fi is about?) which quite simply won't happen with cost specified, performance constrained, manufacturer selected current production valves in new equipment, the E83CC is a no-brainer choice for the discerning enthusiast. It is an excellent example of the special sonic qualities given by top quality NOS valves.

Marco.

good write up Marco, are those tesla valves the ones made at the telefunken factory in the 70's?

its funny how we all see and hear things, that sweet musical midrange i find is very prominant on some records and is non existant with others..and the more my kit improves the more i hear it ...

are you bring them next week end to owston?

steve

[Marco]

Hi Steve,

No, they're NOS from 1982, I believe, but genuine Tesla, not the JJ crap!

If I can make it to Owston (it's still in the balance due to business commitments) I'll bring the Croft with me with the Tesla fitted.

Make no mistake, in terms of its ability to make music sound natural and believable with almost no artifice, this is a *very* special valve.

Marco.

[Mike]

Sounds good! :)

I'll probably give them a try sometime. Got some rather more 'fundamental' changes on the cards coming up soon, fine tuning will come later.

Cheers...

[Marco]

So I've heard - namely with amps, I gather!

I believe you're going to punt that c*nt of a shunt, or some such :eyebrows:

Marco.

[Audiocom AV]

Hello Marco

I have joined this thread late, and speed read the posts.

Which 12AX7's did you settle on?

I have a Hovland HP-100 which uses a pair of Sovtek 12AX7LPS. I am going to evaluate a cryogenic treated pair of Sovtek 12AX7LPS against cryo treated Mullard Long Anode, Sqaure Getter valves, see here
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200279919620&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fshop.ebay.co.uk%3A80%2F%3F_from%3D R40%26_trksid%3Dm38%26_nkw%3D200279919620%2509%26_ sacat%3DSee-All-Categories%26_fvi%3D1

I will keep you posted :)

Best Wishes
Mark Bartlett.

[Marco]

Which 12AX7's did you settle on?


Hi Mark,

See my post #58 on this thread entitled "Tesla E83CC have landed" - all the info you need is there :)

Bear in mind though that I only use NOS valves (for reasons of superior performance), not those in current production.

Marco.

[Mike]

against cryo treated Mullard Long Anode, Sqaure Getter valves, see here
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200279919620&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fshop.ebay.co.uk%3A80%2F%3F_from%3D R40%26_trksid%3Dm38%26_nkw%3D200279919620%2509%26_ sacat%3DSee-All-Categories%26_fvi%3D1



Expensive!

Hope it works out well.....

[Audiocom AV]

Hi Mark,

See my post #58 on this thread entitled "Tesla E83CC have landed" - all the info you need is there :)


Marco.

Hi Marco

Thank you.

I had better add Tesla E83CC to my list, this is going to get expensive.

All the Best
Mark

[kt66]

Hi Mark,

See my post #58 on this thread entitled "Tesla E83CC have landed" - all the info you need is there :)

Bear in mind though that I only use NOS valves (for reasons of superior performance), not those in current production.

Marco.


I've used Telefunken 83s and 82s for years and wouldn't go back to anything else

[John]

I am also new to the post I just got a new valve preamp sounds great a lot more drive than my old music first and quite clean as well but using chinese valves so know there is better to come
Really interested in the Tesla E83CC they may well be the right way to go once the pre has bedded in Did the £110 include import tax and postage or just cost of the valves.
John

[anubisgrau]

just to chime in with a very good experience with the new sovtek 12ax7 LPS

IMHO by far the best value on market for ecc83s at the moment. extremely silent, dynamic, powerful sound yet subtle, open and transparent. i'm using it in EAR 834p and another DIY made RIAA instead a number of expensive valves and honestly i like it more. much better than 2 different mullards i used, tesla NOS ECC83, RCA NOS etc etc. not even completely sure about telefunken e803cc - never had a new one so can't say if mine are on the end of their life.

could be i was lucky to get a few from good runs but for 9.20E what i paid, it's a nonsense.

[Audiocom AV]

Hello

That is an interesting find. I am waiting on delivery of several different 12AX7 valves to do listening tests with including a pair of matched vintage Sovtek 12AX7LPS. The seller is convinced that these 12AX7LPS sound better than any other 12AX7. Also in the mix is NOS Tesla ECC83.

Will know more in a week or two when they have arrived and I have done some listening.

Best Wishes
Mark Bartlett

[Mike]

Well don't bother with Golden Dragon ones Mark, they're awful! :(

[John]

Thanks for the info will look into the sovtek 12ax7 LPS at that price its worth a try

[Audiocom AV]

Well don't bother with Golden Dragon ones Mark, they're awful! :(

Hi Mike

Well, thankfully I am saved; the Golden Dragon is not on the list. The initial shoot out is between the existing Sovtek 12AX7LPS, Vintage Sovtek 12AX7LPS, NOS Tesla E83CC with Gold pins.

Best Wishes
Mark Bartlett

[jandl100]

I've headed in a solid state direction recently (sorry, valve-heads!) ... and I've got some Mullard and Telefunken ECC83 knocking about.

Anyone interested? - they'll just be taking up drawer space for the next several months at least, otherwise, so they may as well go to a welcoming home.

[Marco]

Stick 'em in the Classifieds section, Jerry :)

Marco.

[stobear]

PM sent Jerry