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idc
29-06-2011, 10:48
I have an objectivist view point regarding hifi. I think there is way too much psuedoscience in hifi used to sell products that do not actually, when tested using your ears alone, justify their claims and often their expense as well.

I think some, claims of improved sound are down to the listeners interaction with their hifi and not the construction of the components.

I am sorry I have upset some people here having that view, there is many a subjectivist view point that upsets me. I was hoping that could be accomodated and tolerated.

But because of abuse from various members and in particular Marco and his determination to paint me as someone with an agenda, I will now bow out.

Effem
29-06-2011, 11:10
I have an objectivist view point regarding hifi. I think there is way too much psuedoscience in hifi used to sell products that do not actually, when tested using your ears alone, justify their claims and often their expense as well.

Methinks you believe that we are all total subjectivists to the core here on AoS and that we are incapable of putting our rational and logical thinking heads on, hence we are lambs ready for the slaughter at the mercy of the hi-fi industry - in whatever guise. In any event, NOBODY has asked you to be a knight in shining armour to battle with these evil peddlers of pseudo-science on their behalf, least of all me.



I think some, claims of improved sound are down to the listeners interaction with their hifi and not the construction of the components.

EVERYTHING is down to the listener's interaction with their hi-fi, the room it occupies, what it sits on even and not forgetting the individual's own hearing acuity and most important of all, their state of mind when listening. The acid test of the component(s) being responsible it to pass that same component to others to listen to and if there is a universal consensus that it sounds "Bright" or "warm" or a thousand adjectives between, then logic dictates you have removed the single individual's perception of it. Not rocket science, but you steadfastly refuse to accept any logical argument.



I am sorry I have upset some people here having that view, there is many a subjectivist view point that upsets me. I was hoping that could be accomodated and tolerated.

Then I suggest you have a change of thought processes by using common sense, logic and personal experience instead of third hand information you have gleaned from the internet. I made a point of warning you right from your very first post about this, but like everything else, you have chosen to ignore that tiny pearl of wisdom.



But because of abuse from various members and in particular Marco and his determination to paint me as someone with an agenda, I will now bow out.

At the end of the day it is only a ferkin stereo that we don't listen to 365/24/7 and while we can and do get passionate about the subject as a hobby, I cannot recall anyone dying if they cannot listen to their music, so it all needs to be put into perspective.

People will get rather impatient and testy with you when you cannot escape the rigid dogmatic tramlines of your thought processes. Surely after being booted out so many times out of various forums the penny would drop surely because we cannot ALL be wrong??? :scratch:

Tim
29-06-2011, 11:13
Well perhaps if you hadn't barged into the forum with all guns blazing Ian, you may have had a more receptive audience :scratch:

Getting the balance right as a new member is never easy, people need to suss you out first and see where you are coming from? A delicate task when the only tool you have is language. Announcing you had previously been banned from two other forums for having a particular point of view and then trying to force that same view forward here, was perhaps not the best way to join what is a very friendly and normally non-confrontational community. We all have disagreements here, but we don't normally shout at each other when our opinions differ, they are discussed in a balanced and measured way with reasoned argument and where possible some form of evidence, other that a magazine or bloggers review. Discussing what you personally know and have tried, will always be the best way to present an argument, particularity one as contentious as cables. And at the end of the day, Hi-Fi and how it moves us is often subjective - everybody's mileage differs, which in itself is one reason why we are drawn into this pursuit.

Sometimes the better part of valour is to withdraw and agree to disagree.

Anyway, I'm on a break :lol:

Slippershod
29-06-2011, 11:34
I will now bow out.

that'd be a shame, Ian - as you've been posting very interesting / enticing stuff on the 'spinning now' thread ... and that's what it's all about ... isn't it? :)

Marco
29-06-2011, 12:03
Goodness me - you won't let it go, will you? You've now turned your leaving thread into a tedious subjectivist vs. objectivist argument! :doh:

Ian,

There has been no abuse, my friend.

Last night I was pulling your chain (no pun intended :eyebrows:) with the 'stiffy' remark - it was merely a bit of banter designed to lighten the mood. If you consider that as "abuse", then you obviously don't fit in here even more so than because of your stubborn intent to continue repeating this point, ad nauseam:


I think some, claims of improved sound are down to the listeners interaction with their hifi and not the construction of the components.

How many times must you bang on about that before our, in general, near unanimous disagreement, sinks in and you let it lie??

That may be what you believe, and you're entiltled to have that belief (there is *some* truth in it), but you cannot seek to enforce your view repeatedly upon people, particularly when it is obvious that the process is simply causing friction and ill feeling amongst other members - *that* was your biggest mistake.

Anyone with an ounce of sensitivity would've realised that, and backed off accordingly. Indeed such is your obsession with the above view, that I think you should have it written on your gravestone......!!


I am sorry I have upset some people here having that view, there is many a subjectivist view point that upsets me. I was hoping that could be accomodated and tolerated.


It was initially, and your view would've continued to have been accommodated, but your downfall was that you were too obsessed with portraying your own viewpoint at the expense of not listening to, or taking into consideration, the opposing viewpoint of others. And that is not the behaviour of someone who is genuinely interested in learning; merely ramming home what they think in the most boorish and selfish way imaginable.

Furthermore, you post the contents of a private PM on the open forum, without the permission of the other person, who had sent it to you on the understanding that it was private, causing untold upset and disruption in the process, and without so much as an apology!

All of the above, including the feelings that some members have just expressed, before I locked this thread (as I have no desire to host yet another circular argument here), show that unfortunately you just don't fit in on AoS. I'm disappointed about that, but I guess that some things are simply not meant to be.

Therefore, I'm sorry that it didn't work out for you here, and I wish you all the best for the future.

<Thread closed>

Marco.