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RobbieGong
23-06-2011, 13:17
It's arrived and I'm told and read plenty that says I'm going to enjoy this upgrade so i'm looking forward to having it in place. Yes it looks like a serious bit of kit as I hold it in my hand, the original techy bearing doesn't really compare. I will also be fitting the timestep external psu at the same time. I've been told that these two upgrades together will bring very good sonic improvements indeed. I'm not an electronics wizzkid or anything but at the same time i can follow instructions and not afraid to have a go. Any tips would be appreciated - Anyone else done these two? Also i want to retain the power light on and need very basic instruction re: how to do that. So thats it for now until I report back on the changes experienced with these two upgrades in place ;)

etphonehome
23-06-2011, 14:05
Congrats, Robert, on your new purchases. I have both upgrades too, and I can assure you will hear a huge sonic improvement once you have installed them.

I followed this thread for the installation of the Time Step psu...very clear instructions.

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=8118

RobbieGong
23-06-2011, 14:42
Big thanks Ernest, much appreciated (This is why i love the AOS family) :)

Wakefield Turntables
23-06-2011, 17:02
Both pieces of kit are very easy to fit, you should have the job done in less than an hour. The MN bearing will require a LOT of running in time but I think you will be very very happy. :eyebrows:

RobbieGong
23-06-2011, 17:59
Cheers Rexton. I'm gonna get myself a soldering kit. The only bit that might make me scratch my head a bit is the final part in the attached link for instructions of Timestep install:
8. If you are bothered about not having a working power switch on your deck, it’s not much trouble to take the blue and brown wires that you may have snipped in Step 2d, and route your positive DC lead through the deck’s power switch, using these existing wires. You’ll have to work out which ones to use with the aid of a multimeter, but that’s not difficult! Then your deck will operate exactly as before. :scratch: Something a bit more definitive or precise would suit me really for this bit - I have the MK5g if that helps - ( sorry to sound hopeless - trust me i'm not) :eyebrows:

Canetoad
23-06-2011, 19:10
Post number 8 in the link above. :)

Tarzan
23-06-2011, 20:30
Review, review, enjoy!:)

RobbieGong
23-06-2011, 20:50
Post number 8 in the link above. :)

Cheers Canetoad, clearly it would help if I looked at things properly and fully :mental: :)

WOStantonCS100
25-06-2011, 17:17
Hey Robert,

Hope everything goes smoothly for you. I just retrieved mine from the PO today. Good thing... I was starting fret, even started to lose my bearing. :lol: My apologies for the extremely bad joke.

MaksK
25-06-2011, 19:30
Mine bearing and platter are installed. Missing only the final piece of the puzzle, paul's psu and then Im set - it will be long two weeks of waiting tho :rolleyes:

The engineering is just out of this planet, the original bearing is like a toy and the platter is massive and looks the bizz'.

Wakefield Turntables
25-06-2011, 21:43
Mine bearing and platter are installed. Missing only the final piece of the puzzle, paul's psu and then Im set - it will be long two weeks of waiting tho :rolleyes:

The engineering is just out of this planet, the original bearing is like a toy and the platter is massive and looks the bizz'.

There are still a few other bits Mike makes for the 1210 but my advice would be to see what effects the bits you have ordered have on your system and then maybe think about getting a better tonearm mount for your 1210. I too am thinking of ditching my TimeStep HE and thinking of getting a better PS, probably a PS5 or something like that.

Mike_New
27-06-2011, 06:47
Hi Folks,
Thanks for all the good words and support, I now have 14 bearings left from this batch for quick delivery to anywhere.

Maks,
What you can do is to use the existing power supply to rotate the platter and run in the bearing. Run it for two or three hours at a time changing the speed every three or four times. This way you will be in a position to really hear the difference when you eventually fit the new PS.

MartinT
27-06-2011, 07:09
How's it going, Robbie? Have you traced the cause of the platter rubbing/slowing?

RobbieGong
27-06-2011, 13:26
How's it going, Robbie? Have you traced the cause of the platter rubbing/slowing?

Hi Martin, I've undone, tucked wiring away tidily as I always do, screwed down firmly, undone and re-sat bearing etc twice. First time still that fluctuation where the dots around the platter pull back slightly after each rotation as if something sticking. Second time round the dots are not jerking back as much, ever so slightly now but I'm still letting the deck spin to see if things wear in and the problem goes. In fact I've just had another look and the jerk is literally bearly visible. I'll keep deck spinning at 45 to further loosen things up. If I have to I may undo again and file those solder ends under the pcb flat as there's nothing left to get a grip on to further clip. Obviously I'd lay a slightly damp cloth (barely damp really) to catch any filing then hoover out as I do. Wish me luck guys i'll keep y'all posted ;)

RobbieGong
27-06-2011, 17:19
Frustrated !! :( I've tried everything from laying wiring down neat and flat, bending tall capicitors down a bit, done, undone, redone etc and still slight fluctuation as if something is ever so slightly interfering with free flow !! It's got me beat for now !! :(

MartinT
27-06-2011, 18:22
Robbie - what happens if you spin the platter ever so gently with the power off? Do you feel a snagging point? If so, can you hear where it's coming from? You're going to have to be patient to track this one down.

WOStantonCS100
27-06-2011, 19:06
I first installed my MN bearing in the oldest 1200 I have. When refitting the platter the first time, it was noticeably a few mm higher than with the stock bearing. When I powered up there was noticeable wow on 33 and 45 was just plain erratic. I ended up having to re-route the power cable around the back side of the transformer. Actually, I replaced the A/C cord altogether. It was unusually thick and had the plastic tubing around it. In addition it was originally routed underneath the motor board. Making those changes brought the platter closer to where it originally was. However, 45 rpm was still a no go. Now, I considered that this is an old 1200. It has a thicker rubber base and no pocan. I also had to do extensive clean up when I first got it including replacing a power switch cap and pop-up light bulb. The original tonearm was trashed. I am 99% sure that several passive components on the board are probably out of spec. Lastly, I did notice a rubbing sound that repeated at a 360 degree interval. First time around it was a small short sound; second time a longer sound.

I decided to pull the bearing and put it in a later model 1200, still a mk2. There was still some noticeable wow; but, 45 rpm was no longer erratic. I rechecked the oil level and decided to go ahead and let it run in for several hours. As of last night, at about 8 hours, I was tapping my foot to the music as I normally do, with just a hint of wow. However, at the end of the night the rubbing sound was still there alternating as usual. I'll admit, I was starting to get a bit concerned. I got up this morning, set the speed to 45 rpm and let it run for about 6 hours. In total, I'm probably at 14 or so hours, which is far less than the 50 hrs recommended. I just put my ear to the platter and unless I'm going deaf, I didn't hear any rubbing. I'll check again later and report back.

If it runs in as expected, I'll probably do a "cap job" on the other 1200 and put it back in as that's where my T3 Pro arm is and I'd rather not move the arm.

BTW: stock PSU in place... for now ;)

RobbieGong
27-06-2011, 19:13
Yep, I'm doing just that as in letting it run non stop at long periods for both 33 and 45rpm. I'm really hoping that it will kind of bed in and settle down. I've looked at the pcb board and the insdie of the deck to see what might be getting in the way but I really cant see what. I've flattened and tucked away so we'll see - yes I'm gonna have to be pretty patience like Martin says :rolleyes:.

WOStantonCS100
27-06-2011, 20:53
...yes I'm gonna have to be pretty patience like Martin says :rolleyes:.

Don'tcha hate that! :lolsign: I'm pretty impatient when it comes to these things, as well.

I have to say, now that I've held one in my hands, I agree that this bearing is miles away from the stock bearing. I've read that a lot. I've read how it's built like a brick "poop" house with no unwanted play and all of that; but, there's no substitution for hands on experience. I could probably use this bearing to defend myself against a band of 287 rogue and ravenous marauding squirrels and come out without blemishing it or reducing it's functionality.

RobbieGong
27-06-2011, 20:59
I first installed my MN bearing in the oldest 1200 I have. When refitting the platter the first time, it was noticeably a few mm higher than with the stock bearing. When I powered up there was noticeable wow on 33 and 45 was just plain erratic. I ended up having to re-route the power cable around the back side of the transformer. Actually, I replaced the A/C cord altogether. It was unusually think and had the plastic tubing around it. In addition it was originally routed underneath the motor board. Making those changes brought the platter closer to where it originally was. However, 45 rpm was still a no go. Now, I considered that this is an old 1200. It has a thicker rubber base and no pocan. I also had to do extensive clean up when I first got it including replacing a power switch cap and pop-up light bulb. The original tonearm was trashed. I am 99% sure that several passive components on the board are probably out of spec. Lastly, I did notice a rubbing sound that repeated at a 360 degree interval. First time around it was a small short sound; second time a longer sound.

I decided to pull the bearing and put it in a later model 1200, still a mk2. There was still some noticeable wow; but, 45 rpm was no longer erratic. I rechecked the oil level and decided to go ahead and let it run in for several hours. As of last night, at about 8 hours, I was tapping my foot to the music as I normally do, with just a hint of wow. However, at the end of the night the rubbing sound was still there alternating as usual. I'll admit, I was starting to get a bit concerned. I got up this morning, set the speed to 45 rpm and let it run for about 6 hours. In total, I'm probably at 14 or so hours, which is far less than the 50 hrs recommended. I just put my ear to the platter and unless I'm going deaf, I didn't hear any rubbing. I'll check again later and report back.

If it runs in as expected, I'll probably do a "cap job" on the other 1200 and put it back in as that's where my T3 Pro arm is and I'd rather not move the arm.

BTW: stock PSU in place... for now ;)

Also WOStanton I think this goes to show and remind people that this is not a standard exact same size weight etc item. Some have found it a straight forward fit and I think this is what the majority of people will think will always be the case. I'd compare it to fitting a nicer, beefer twin exhaust to your car over the stock pipe, you may well find the new fit requires a bit of tweeking and fettling to get it to sit and fit properly. I managed to listen at very low volume (kiddies had just gone to bed) immediately after installing the Mike New bearing and Timestep psu. I could instantly recognise the clarity and overall niceness for want of a better word to the sonic presentation, instruments also sounded nicely seperate so I'm in know doubt this is one heck of an improvement no doubt. It was only when I thought what da heck and increased volume I detected the intermittent labouring of speed and decided to check the dots around the platter which proved my worst fears. Ah well ! gonna keep her spinnin overnight and all day while I'm at work and see how things go :thumbsup:

Slippershod
27-06-2011, 22:18
[I] I could probably use this bearing to defend myself against a band of 287 rogue and ravenous marauding squirrels and come out without blemishing it or reducing it's functionality.

you definitely win the award for today's most amusing forum comment :lol:

Mike_New
28-06-2011, 00:01
Hi Folks,
I have been studying the comments on this thread concerning rubbing and cannot undestand what the problem may be. I check the relative height of the spindle taper against a master gauge, when setting the position of the bottom carbide bearing pad.
This ensures that the 8-pole rotor attached to the platter; is correctly positioned when the platter is located onto the taper.

There is one thing that maybe the problem: On some of the older platters the taper in the platter may have become slightly stretched, allowing the platter to sit further down the spindle taper. This may in turn cause the bottom of the hole in the platter to just touch the top of the bearing (where the oil sits). Remove the platter, invert it, and examine the bottom of the hole to see if there are any shiny patches.

The diameter here is so small compared to the platter as a whole that I doubt if any slight touching would affect the speed, and it would be lubricated from the oil on the top of the bearing.

I have just checked 5 new bearings selected at random and fitted them to my test TT and all show no signs of problems.

What it could be, is that some dirt of a magnetic nature has attached itself to the coils or rotor magnet and is causing intereferance. Make sure the inside of the rotor magnet is completely free of any foreign material, clean with a damp cloth.

WOStantonCS100
28-06-2011, 02:41
Hi Folks,
I have been studying the comments on this thread concerning rubbing and cannot undestand what the problem may be. I check the relative height of the spindle taper against a master gauge, when setting the position of the bottom carbide bearing pad.
This ensures that the 8-pole rotor attached to the platter; is correctly positioned when the platter is located onto the taper.

There is one thing that maybe the problem: On some of the older platters the taper in the platter may have become slightly stretched, allowing the platter to sit further down the spindle taper. This may in turn cause the bottom of the hole in the platter to just touch the top of the bearing (where the oil sits). Remove the platter, invert it, and examine the bottom of the hole to see if there are any shiny patches.

The diameter here is so small compared to the platter as a whole that I doubt if any slight touching would affect the speed, and it would be lubricated from the oil on the top of the bearing.

I have just checked 5 new bearings selected at random and fitted them to my test TT and all show no signs of problems.

What it could be, is that some dirt of a magnetic nature has attached itself to the coils or rotor magnet and is causing intereferance. Make sure the inside of the rotor magnet is completely free of any foreign material, clean with a damp cloth.

Hey Mike, PM sent.

Mike_New
28-06-2011, 07:25
Robert,
Just a thought, are you sure that you have positively and fully located the bearing into the coil assembly. In some cases it does require a gentle push to get the bearing to seat correctly into the coil assembly. When it is fully home you should be able to rotate it back and forth by a few desgrees.
If it is not correctly seated then this could cause rubbing, as the assembly will not be located square onto the mounting.

RobbieGong
28-06-2011, 11:52
Robert,
Just a thought, are you sure that you have positively and fully located the bearing into the coil assembly. In some cases it does require a gentle push to get the bearing to seat correctly into the coil assembly. When it is fully home you should be able to rotate it back and forth by a few desgrees.
If it is not correctly seated then this could cause rubbing, as the assembly will not be located square onto the mounting.

Hi Mike, Firstly thanks for getting this superb item to me. As someone else has pointed out it makes the original look like a toy. I left the deck spinning at 45rpm over nite and woke at 5.45 for work to find that the strobe dots had settled properly, no judder or jerking back intermittently on rotation. Yes I was very pleased. I hit the 33rpm and steady as ever too. I've left the deck spinning while i'm at work so that'll be a total of about 24 plus hours once I get in. As expressed earlier I had a very minimal listen at very low level immediately after installing at the same time as fitting Timestep psu and without any doubt the difference was immediate, clarity, seperation of instruments and just so much tidier sound and more enjoyable listen. I had a big smile on my face :). I'll look to go through a few tunes at a slightly more indulgent volume -It would be rude not to savour this sonic delight ;). If any rub issues re-surface I'll check again that the bearing is seated and home correctly as per your advise. Will be back with more sonic expressions :thumbsup:

RobbieGong
28-06-2011, 20:25
Something still causin slight dip on rotation so I'm back to trying to see what the heck might be causin slight rub, certain I've housed bearing correctly. Gonna have to be very very patient with this one :scratch: :scratch: :scratch:

Mike_New
28-06-2011, 23:57
Hi Robert,
I have sent you an email concerning the possible cause of the problem.
Briefly, I believ that the top of the bearing is just lightly touching the side of the large tapered hole in the platter which the bearing fits into.

With this batch I made the diameter of the oil lip just slightly larger. and checked all bearings on my test unit for one hour with no problems.

There are obviously small variations in the tollerances of the large hole, as this is left as cast and not machined. The OEM bearing will never be a problem as it's diameter at the top (where rigidity is important) is so slim that it would never be a problem.