View Full Version : Soon to be new deck
griffo104
09-10-2008, 08:24
The Sony DD deck I'll be purchasing in the near future, pic as requested by Marco.
118
http://theartofsound.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=118&d=1223540648
Griffo,
That's a re-badged SL-1210, mate! I've never seen anything like that before. There's nothing 'Sony' about it apart from the logos. It'll still be a good deck, though, (the same as a 1210 is).
Where did you get it from?
Marco.
griffo104
09-10-2008, 09:54
I'm getting it from a Wammer who offered it to me after I put a query about going DD on the Wam.
Interesting. I wonder where he got it from. It's such an unusual thing for Sony to do :scratch:
Regardless, though, you've got yourself a great deck!
Marco.
Prince of Darkness
09-10-2008, 10:30
That's a re-badged SL-1210, mate!
Not sure about that. I could be wrong, but it looks a lot like a Sony deck I saw reviewed in Hi-Fi World. Not in the same league as a SL-1210, but looks a lot like one.
Hope I'm wrong about this. Certainly, Sony have rebadged other manufacturers decks in the past (Lenco in the 70's).
I'm not saying you're wrong, dude, but I'd bet my mortgage (if I had one) that it's defo a Technics motor unit, perhaps just 'dressed up' differently. The arm also looks identical. What puzzles me though is the model number and the fact that's it's branded as a "Direct-drive DJ Turntable". This "PS-DJ9000" thing seems somewhat dodgy.
Sony made their own perfectly good direct-drive T/Ts, which looked nothing like 1200/1210s, so why they'd want to re-badge Technics ones is anyone's guess...
If you're right, though, and Griffo's bought a 'lemon', then he's got a problem! I hope that's not the case. Can you get your hands on the HFW article?
griffo104
09-10-2008, 13:17
I have to say the original price of this deck is not in 1210 country - it's a lot cheaper. I was expecting to get a cheap DD drive deck to try out with the expectation of moving up the DD chain if I thought there was potential.
It will do for me at the moment and if I do think there's something there it'll move in to my 2nd system with the baby Denon to let me have a vinyl option there.
I'm getting this much cheaper the the 1200/1210 I've seen around so I'm certainly not expecting top rank performance, but the deck is in good condition, the seller is a top bloke from my forum exhanges with him and he's going out of he's way to help get the deck to me. I'll be happy with this to try and experiment before moving on up :)
Yep I understand, Griffo. It does seem awfully like a 1210, though. I would be very curious to know what the differences are in terms of the key components used. Perhaps Kevin can find that article.
Anyway, if you declare it sounds total pants then we'll know it's definitely not a 1210! ;)
Marco.
griffo104
09-10-2008, 13:47
I'm doing this to test the waters. I've been looking at a few DD drive decks, especially some of the modern Stanton and ?numark examples. I also adore the look of the newer Denon DD drives currently only available in Japan - there's one of them on the audiocubes website. In a perfect world and if I hear the sort of potential I want I may even contemplate importing one of the Denon decks. I have a bit of a soft spot for Denon when it comes to the big boys as I've owned a few bits from them and they have all put a smile on my face.
From experience the service from Audiocubes was exceptional and I'd be confident getting a deck from them.
Any headshells ordered would, of course, be compatible with any other deck I would contemplate moving to at a later date so I don't see that as much of a gamble.
Nice one Griffo.
I see no reason why this Sony deck shouldn't sound very decent, all the big Japanese players have pinched and copied each others designs at some point and this deck is just Sony getting in on the DJ market, although being Sony they probably missed the boat again. I wouldn't pay to much attention to the lower price either, as Sony are well capable of copying the 1200 and knocking a few $ off the price to undercut Matsushita. Who knows, you may have sleeping giant lurking in there. A comparison with a 1200 would be interesting.
Bet you've never seen one of these either!
http://shopimages.wikio.com/shop/img/2008/5/29/D1/371124188_big.jpg
Prince of Darkness
09-10-2008, 22:02
I'll try to dig out the article, probably monday.:)
That would be good, mate :)
Marco.
Prince of Darkness
13-10-2008, 11:09
Hi Marco, Griffo & all,
Managed to find the review, September 2003. Price was £300, with a note that it had been discontinued and was selling for around £150.
Here are some excerpts.
"The motor has the same start up time as the Technics SL1200, about half a platter rotation to full speed - however braking was a little slower. With quartz lock selected the unit was rock-solid at the speed indicated. If the quartz lock was not in use and the pitch control in the centre detent, the stroboscope indicated speed fluctuation. These critiscisms may seem irrelevant but in a mix it would appear that the vocalist was slurring. This is not a good thing!
How then did it sound? I'm afraid to report that it was dramatically poorer than a similarly priced hi-fi deck, such as NAD's 533 or Rega's P2. Bass was light with an extremely prominent upper midrange, along with a large amount of distortion. On investigation I discovered that the headshell was not sitting square in the arm. The cartidge was unable to be set at the correct VTA. This was due to a spacer weight under the cartridge in the headshell coupled with the slip mat thickness (4 or 5 mm). This would instantly catch out any newcomers to vinyl - and is something where the real hi-fi decks score over the Sony, along with the higher priced Technics.
Having access to an ADC LMG1 magnesium headshell - a very high quality aftermarket design for 'SME' arms and now no longer available - I installed the Stanton properly. Along with a felt slip mat, this solved the VTA problem, although the VTA control was still very coarse to use.
I then tried to align the cartridge, only to find that pick up arm was not aligned to the protractor! As there was nothing I could do about this, the listening session carried on.
My next impressions were of a more tuneful bass and a much smoother mid to treble balance. The sound was still very wearing and shrill, doubtless due to poor manufacture of the pickup arm and also the loose pickup arm base that can be moved around! These are not good attributes. When compared with a SL 1200 the difference was staggering. The Technics was better in all aspects. This is all the more depressing, as the SL-1200's arm is a cheap generic S-shaped design that's miles behind the likes of the Rega RB250, as fitted the NAD 533 or Rega P2. ..." I'm sure Marco, at least will disagree with this last bit:lol:
"Overall then, the Sony proved deeply disappointing. In truth, it's pretty much par-for-the-course as far as budget DJ decks are concerned. It's certainly no shortcut to vinyl Nirvana - if you want decent sound then a pukka hi-fi design is your only option, or if you want a decent DJ tool, then the Technics SL1200 at twice the price is the real deal. Subjected to the rigours of life on the road showed just how far behind it - and I suspect, it's rivals - are compared to both the aforementioned Technics 'pro' deck and any of the entry-level hi-fi designs. ..."
So not too promising, but I suspect a better performance could be obtained with a bit tweeking, though not up to Technics levels.:)
griffo104
13-10-2008, 12:29
Thanks for printing the review.
I'd hope I would pick up on the VTA, especially considering how anal I am about that nowadays.
It's pretty much at the level I expected, to be honest. I'm not really expecting too much but as you say there is room for improvement through some tweaks. I've seen an SL1200 in the local Cash Converters so I may also take the gamble and swipe that as well.
Peter Stockwell
14-10-2008, 06:48
Theres an Audio technica TT that looks like a Technics clone that's very cheap too, even has a model number with 120 in it.
Sony did some stonking decks, from what I read around. the 6750 and the particularly the 8750 being highly regarded. There's a 4750 too, which from what I readn, is notch below the other two.
Thanks for posting that Kevin - most enlightening!
I had no idea such decks existed, and yet it looks *so* much like a 1210... :scratch:
I'm sure Griffo can get a good sound out of it though, although I'd be tempted to shelve the Sony and buy the SL-1200 from the local Cash Converters and concentrate my efforts on that.
This is all the more depressing, as the SL-1200's arm is a cheap generic S-shaped design that's miles behind the likes of the Rega RB250, as fitted the NAD 533 or Rega P2. ..." I'm sure Marco, at least will disagree with this last bit :lol:
LOL. It's just simply pure ignorance, that's all, as are the references to "pukka hi-fi designs", etc. It's because of such hi-fi reporting that people today are so indoctrinated in the whole Linn/Rega nonsense!
Marco.
Prince of Darkness
14-10-2008, 13:37
I had no idea such decks existed, and yet it looks *so* much like a 1210... :scratch:
Every wannabee DJ wants a Technics, if they can't afford one they'll probably be happy to by a cheaper lookalike.:)
LOL. It's just simply pure ignorance, that's all, as are the references to "pukka hi-fi designs", etc. It's because of such hi-fi reporting that people today are so indoctrinated in the whole Linn/Rega nonsense!
Even back then Hi-Fi World actually rated the Technics 1200/1210, though only with an arm transplant.:lolsign:
Indeed - and they deserve respect for that much :)
TBH, if you're into 'proper' hi-fi (and for me that means vinyl, valves and top-notch classic gear) it's the only magazine worth reading these days!
The rest are either full of computer/AV shit, boring, non-descript, mainstream run-of-the-mill tat, or shiny pictures of over-priced, over-engineered, badge-snob wanking material.
Marco.
griffo104
14-10-2008, 14:42
shiny pictures of over-priced, over-engineered, badge-snob wanking material.
Yummy :eek:
I still remain a bit non-plussed about valves, although recently got to hear a very nice Croft pre-amp which I was very impressed with. It made a significant change to the sound of the system it was in but then it was replacing an MF pre-amp so I'm not too surprised it made a positive difference.
I used to really enjoy Hifi World but find it's just too off the mark for my tastes in Hifi nowadays. Having said that, if it wasn't for Hifi World, back when Noel Keywood was the Editor, then I would never have gotten in to turntables.
I have heard some very nice valve gear but it's always been silly expensive.
Ali Tait
14-10-2008, 17:32
That's the beauty of their kits.They've given a lot of people entry into the valve world,and many have gone on to build their own stuff,though many have also stuck with the kits,which I don't think can be beaten for the money.
Peter Stockwell
15-10-2008, 09:34
Indeed - and they deserve respect for that much :)
The rest are either full of computer/AV shit, ...
Earth is the centre of the universe, then is it ? ;)
Griffo,
I still remain a bit non-plussed about valves, although recently got to hear a very nice Croft pre-amp which I was very impressed with. It made a significant change to the sound of the system it was in but then it was replacing an MF pre-amp so I'm not too surprised it made a positive difference.
Valve gear is like anything else in hi-fi - you can only judge what you hear, and if what you've heard is nothing special then it will obviously influence your opinion accordingly.
The trouble is that most commercially produced valve equipment is vastly overpriced for what it is, and often too over-complicated for its own good. The advantage of Croft gear (which you know I use with my Charisma-X preamp) is that it's based on simple hard-wired, shortest signal path circuits which offer superb sound quality and the designs are sold at realistic prices. Glenn wouldn't have it any other way as he hates the high-end marketing bullshit part of hi-fi as much as I do.
But it's not only Croft valve equipment which offers this; World Designs gear is equally as good, as is most equipment from smaller bespoke manufacturers such as Tube Distinctions, Icon Audio, Puresound, and many others who have no desire to be an 'aspirational' brand in the audiophile rip-off sense and sell their souls to the devil in the process. *This* is where it's at with valves if you are seeking top-notch performance at realistic prices.
If you wish to have your opinion changed and are in any way intrigued by valves, you should check out some of the stuff above. Personally, knowing now what valve equipment does when performing correctly and properly implemented synergistically into a system, I would never go back to transistor amps. Nothing in hi-fi is perfect but in my experience valves done well get far more right than they do wrong, and as a result quite simply get you closer to the music.
As such a self-confessed T/T and vinyl nut, you're doing yourself an injustice not hearing your deck through a valve preamp and phono stage (with high quality MC step-up transformers). Trust me, done correctly; it'll take you on a musical journey you've never experienced before...
I used to really enjoy Hifi World but find it's just too off the mark for my tastes in Hifi nowadays. Having said that, if it wasn't for Hifi World, back when Noel Keywood was the Editor, then I would never have gotten in to turntables.
I guess that it's personal taste. I find that HFW pretty much ticks all the boxes for me. If it had as good a music section as Hi-fi Plush it'd be perfect :)
Marco.
Earth is the centre of the universe, then is it ? ;)
They're just not things that turn me on, Peter. Each to his or her own and all that :)
Marco.
Peter Stockwell
15-10-2008, 11:58
They're just not things that turn me on, Peter. Each to his or her own and all that :)
Marco.
I was just joshing ya!! :)
griffo104
15-10-2008, 13:30
But it's not only Croft valve equipment which offers this; World Designs gear is equally as good, as is most equipment from smaller bespoke manufacturers such as Tube Distinctions, Icon Audio, Puresound, and many others who have no desire to be an 'aspirational' brand in the audiophile rip-off sense and sell their souls to the devil in the process. *This* is where it's at with valves if you are seeking top-notch performance at realistic prices.
Marco,
a little story for you. A couple of years ago I attended a bake off at a Wammers place. I went down with my Orbe. The guy had 2 rooms, in the front was primarily a cd based setup and in the back room we setup my orbe. One of the guys had a load of WAD stuff, amp and phono and psu.
In the afternoon we set the Orbe driving all the WAD stuff with a pair of Revolver speakers, srtandmounts and not too expensive.
In my opinion, this completely blew away the cd based system in the other room, which had Art audio speakers on the end of the amps. We weren;'t just listening to a track but whole sides of LPs. The sound was wonderful, detailed, natural. Ok it's a bit of flat earth way of thinking, expensive source with very reasonably proced electronics and speakers on the end - not sure what Howard would think of this :) - but it was sublime in every possible way.
In the front room was the Prima Luna amp which all were raving about. It sounded pretty dire, tbh. Initially the frotn toom system had the WAD amp and listening to Cut Chemist was very poor, it lacked everything dance music should have. the cd owner blamed the amp but later when it was hooked up with the Orbe and Revlovers it was completely different.
My point ? sometimes it's just too difficult to comprehend what a SYSTEM will do. I know a ot of people on another forum firmly believe that you buy the best speakers and work your way back. I disagree with that. the whole picture has be together - source, amp, speakers. the cost of the indicidual components isn't import, but being of a flat earth liking obviously I beleive the source has to be a decent level for all else to work well but that doesn't mean the source HAS to be expensive. It doesn't.
Sotry no.2 A couple of years ago I'm walking around the hifi show. this is when the Chester group and Hifi News decided to have shows on the same day. My 2 mates had stayed over at the Hifi News show for the AV demos. I hate AV. I went over to the other show.
Very late on, the last room I visited, had a Kuzma Stabi S/Rega/Goldring feeding a prototype phone with the Puresound amp (poorly named Bewithced at the time I think. On the end were one of the cheaper pairs of of Focal speakers - no flashy berylium tweeters here.
I was in the room for about 15 mins listening on my own, really enjoying the blues record, I started chatting to the representative about tube amps, simple questions but nice replies. Apart from two uber expensive systems this was by far the most enjoyable and complete sound I heard that day. The person turned out to be a very nice 'Guy' ;) as I later found out when reporting on the Wam.
Again i stand by my comments here. Was it purely the tube amp that put the smile on my face and enjoyed this very affordable system compared to so much of the glitzy expensive ones blaming the room for the shite sound.
I think, again, that getting a decent balanced system is the most important thing. Regardless of the technology (excepting cd of course:)).
I've found another Sony (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SONY-TURNTABLE-BELT-DRIVE-NICE-CONDITION-NO-RESERVE_W0QQitemZ110299396533QQcmdZViewItem?hash=i tem110299396533&_trkparms=39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A10%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14) curio. I belt driven 1210 clone no less, notice the platter, pitch slider, strobe light and buttons etc. Bonkers!
Aye, but it uses a bloody elastic band! :lol:
Howz that 103 sound now it's been 'sapphire'd'?
Marco.
P.S Griffo, I'll come back to you later.
Marco, I'm expecting it tomorrow or saturday...cant wait! It has taken ages. I get the impression that Expert Stylus are a Father & son outfit and they cant knock em' out quick enough to the US market apparently.
I'm home alone this weekend, so I'm gonna max out on vinyl after 2 months of analogue drought. I would love to go to Richard Dunn's DD turntable fest/bakeoff at the end of the month to compare decks and 103's but North London is just too far at this time.
I'll be back in a day or so with some early impressions.
Ah, so it's imminent. You'll be like a kid in a sweet shop wondering what tunes to play! :eyebrows:
We expect a full write-up when you get a good listen... ;)
Do you know if a KAB-1210 will be represented at the D/D bake-off? I rate the Pioneers in terms of the mechanisms and PSUs used but I'm not sure about how good the plinths are in terms of effective isolation.
No doubt we'll hear all about it on pfm!
Marco.
No there wont be any 1210's unfortunately. Richard is very keen to get a KAB 1210 there, and the only other known one belongs to Ray70 who cant make it. Oddly enough looking at the thread, there may well be more belt than direct drives there. I look forward to the de-brief and pictures, Richard will pull no punches and give an honest appraisal I'm sure.
Maybe I should 'drop in' with my beasty...? :eyebrows:
Marco.
I'm sure his mouth would water at the prospect. He appears to have embraced the DL103 too, so a direct comparison between decks would be from common ground. I would love to go, but my car is just guzzlin' too much gas for a round trip to London.
What's the date, do you know? I'll need to see if I can sneak away.
Marco.
It's November 1st. and the last I read, he had one space left.
That's quite near Guy Fawkes night. A good time to cause some sparks! :eyebrows:
Marco.
griffo104
17-10-2008, 07:38
Ah, so it's imminent. You'll be like a kid in a sweet shop wondering what tunes to play! :eyebrows:
We expect a full write-up when you get a good listen... ;)
Do you know if a KAB-1210 will be represented at the D/D bake-off? I rate the Pioneers in terms of the mechanisms and PSUs used but I'm not sure about how good the plinths are in terms of effective isolation.
No doubt we'll hear all about it on pfm!
Marco.
He was trying very hard to get a KAB 1210. He got in touch with Ray70 who has one and doesn't live too far from him but Ray couldn't make the day. I wish I had tried to get there - richard isn't too far away from me in Southend and it would be good for DD cynic such as myself, but I didn't find out until too late and I've got other plans now.
A very interesting bake off planned there.
Is it being held at Richard's gaff? If so, I doubt I'd be welcome! :eyebrows:
Marco.
"I've found another Sony curio. I belt driven 1210 clone no less, notice the platter, pitch slider, strobe light and buttons etc. Bonkers!"
Not sure why the guy selling the Sony TT thinks it's rare,it is a current model(SONY PS-LX350H) and costs $200 ,maybe it's rare in the UK.
I wonder if something like that Sony TT would benifit from a better power supply.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.