L/S advice please - upgrading time!

[sburrell]

Hi,

I've finally been able to retire my Beresford DAC from its duties attached to my Mac Pro, and re-instate its position between my Creek 4040 and B&W DM601 S3s. However, I recall in a thread a while back someone recommending that my speakers were no longer the match of my amp and DAC, and that I should upgrade them. Well, that time is here, especially given that my DAC has since been pimped by the good man of Tìrna Electronics and sounds even better than before!

So, please, I would welcome recommendations for replacement stand-mounted speakers. My budget will be £100-125 + whatever's necessary to get something that truly is an upgrade - perhaps another £100-125, then, for a total of £200-250? Obviously, second-hand is the name of the game. My needs are:

Work well close to the wall - I have a small flat.
Smaller than the current B&Ws (37 x 20 x 23cm).
I'd like a real-wood cabinet, but I'm not holding my breath :)
Exemplary performance with vocals above all else, such as TV and radio, and Jazz and Blues singers.
Taut and extended bass - though I'll take taut over extension, as I know getting both = $$$ :eek:

I guess a good way of looking at what I'm after is, speakers that will make me feel as though I'm listening to my Alessandro MS1 headphones, even though I'm not…

Many, many thanks in advance for all the great advice I'm sure to get—I've never beenlet down by anyone here yet! :youtheman:

PS: I'm just going to leave you guys with a wee smiley that I've just noticed in the list, and that I've never seen used before—but it's awesome! Here 'tis:
:acid:
Yeah! Burn the lanky-haired hippy!!!! Hehe.

[Neil McCauley]

Hi,

I've finally been able to retire my Beresford DAC from its duties attached to my Mac Pro, and re-instate its position between my Creek 4040 and B&W DM601 S3s. However, I recall in a thread a while back someone recommending that my speakers were no longer the match of my amp and DAC, and that I should upgrade them. Well, that time is here, especially given that my DAC has since been pimped by the good man of Tìrna Electronics and sounds even better than before!

So, please, I would welcome recommendations for replacement stand-mounted speakers. My budget will be £100-125 + whatever's necessary to get something that truly is an upgrade - perhaps another £100-125, then, for a total of £200-250? Obviously, second-hand is the name of the game. My needs are:

Work well close to the wall - I have a small flat.
Smaller than the current B&Ws (37 x 20 x 23cm).
I'd like a real-wood cabinet, but I'm not holding my breath :)
Exemplary performance with vocals above all else, such as TV and radio, and Jazz and Blues singers.
Taut and extended bass - though I'll take taut over extension, as I know getting both = $$$ :eek:

I guess a good way of looking at what I'm after is, speakers that will make me feel as though I'm listening to my Alessandro MS1 headphones, even though I'm not…

Many, many thanks in advance for all the great advice I'm sure to get—I've never beenlet down by anyone here yet! :youtheman:

PS: I'm just going to leave you guys with a wee smiley that I've just noticed in the list, and that I've never seen used before—but it's awesome! Here 'tis:
:acid:
Yeah! Burn the lanky-haired hippy!!!! Hehe.

Hmm. Interesting challenge for the money. My recommendation is the JPW Minim speakers. Truly and i do mean truly one of the most musically credible small speakers I've ever heard in 36 years in this hobby. Peanuts prices too!

[Macca]

Hmm. Interesting challenge for the money. My recommendation is the JPW Minim speakers. Truly and i do mean truly one of the most musically credible small speakers I've ever heard in 36 years in this hobby. Peanuts prices too!

I have a pair but one of the Bass-mid drivers is kaput. They are fun little speakers, sealed box so no bass port crap.

What about Elac? Standmounters with Ribbon tweeters and metal cone mid-bass - a bit hard to find second hand, though

Anyway I have heard them with the new Exposure stuff and I could live with them even though I don't like metal cones.

[Butuz]

I will be honest here I think you are going to struggle on your budget for £150 - £250 to get a really significant upgrade. The B and W are and always were good speakers. I miss my DM601s1's and my mate still has his (we bought em together!)

To get a significant upgrade I recon your gonna have to spend £350 odd?

Either way ive also got a beresford dac and a cas4040s1 also and they're both great value for money I agree your speakers are the weakest link but I recon the amp comes a fairly close second place.

Butuz

[Stratmangler]

There's nowt wrong with your B&W's, but if you must change your speakers then you could do worse than these http://www.richersounds.com/product/bookshelf-speakers/kef/iq10/kef-iq10-blk

[DSJR]

When new, the 601v3 tweeters were horrid little dentist-drills - ssssspiteful and "HiFi," but having heard how the mk1 tweeters mellow out over the years, this may be good for the v3 as well. The bass and mid are pretty good and less wallowy than thge mk1 version as I remember.

Way out of budget I think, as they have cachet, but the Sonus Faber Concertino's were just the ticket and personally, I think the AVI N5's would be good too, as the mid and top is lovely. Only a small handful of dealers and of course, mail order directly will bring a re-stocking charge if you don't like them :(

A couple of others, but possibly too big and they'll need re-foaming now sadly - Mission 700's, Heybrook HB1's (always a hit with the Creek), some vintage AR's (AR7's, 6's for example).

If you can find some JPW Minims cheap, I'd take Howard's suggestion I think :)

[sburrell]

Hi,

Well, going on looks, I have to admit I'm sold on the Sonus Faber Concertinos - gorgeous! But that's two votes for the Minims, so they have to go top of the list. A cursory search has revealed none available for sale atm, but I'll keep my eyes open. Nice to hear a vote of confidence on the B&Ws tho - their problem is that they're just too bassy for my wee flat, though I can happily live with them until Minims or Concertinos turn up at an affordable price.
I did come across a pair of Dali Ikon 1s for sale at £249, and noted that Haselsh1 offered a mini-review on this very site only two days ago - I don't suppose anyone can say yay or nay regarding these for my needs? Haselsh1 was pretty complimentary.
I also found some AVI Nu-Neutrons for £250 - are they in the same league as the N5s mentioned by DSJR?

Thanks guys! :)

[Reid Malenfant]

Try putting some foam in the reflex ports of the B&Ws, then have another listen ;)

[Effem]

It never ceases to amaze me just how many speakers on the market are being specified as "bookshelf" suitable speakers when they have a rear facing reflex port :scratch:

Diminuitive speakers have diminuitive bass drivers too and you are asking a lot of 4"-5" bass drivers to shift any quantity of air for decent bass. With such a limited budget and that space constraint to contend with too, the list of speakers suitable is very short indeed.

Very often overlooked because they are not flavour of the month, look out for a secondhand pair of Monitor Audio BR2's. Front ported, decent bass driver and a choice of wood finishes, they also sound half tidy too at a sensible price.

Wharfedale Diamond speakers are also worth shortlisting too

[DSJR]

Seconded on the Br2's. No major issues and very cheap..

Cheap speakers often have less damping, so blocking up the ports either part way or fully shouldn't dry out the midband in the process.

[Canetoad]

Seconded on the Br2's. No major issues and very cheap..

Cheap speakers often have less damping, so blocking up the ports either part way or fully shouldn't dry out the midband in the process.

+1

I have a set of BR2s in my bedroom system. They sound a lot better than the Kef Cresta IIs they replaced.

[sburrell]

There're some BR2s, vgc in original packaging. What's the most I should pay?
Same goes for some AVI Neutron IVs-are these as desirable as the Vs? If so, vgc ex-demo: what should I pay?

Thanks guys.

[Effem]

The BR2's should fall well within your budget - circa £125 for a good clean one.

The AVI Neutron's are a little bit more than just a bookshelf speaker. They need to be away from a rear wall as IIRC they are rear ported, plus they need some really good quality amplification to drive them, not just in outright power terms but precision and control too as they are rather revealing. Good examples still fetch over £250, mint ones around £100 more.

[sburrell]

Thanks, I've put in a bid of £100 for the BR2s. See how it fares. And I'll ignore the AVIs.

[sburrell]

In about 3 hours I'm going to place a bid on some pristine BR2s, and I just wanted to make sure that there wasn't something on eBay that would be a clearer upgrade.
The Ruark Epilogues are the ones I have in mind, which end just prior to the BR2 auction and which are apparently, "a speaker which joins the ranks of the Tannoy Mercury 2 and the LS3/5A." I've heard a lot about the LS3/5a and its excellence with vocals, so this description inspired me to ask about them.

If I don't hear back from anyone before the BR2 auction ends I'll just forget the Epilogues.

Thanks all :)

[sburrell]

Yee-Haa! Won the BR2s for £122 + £17 postage. Very pleased! Here's the link:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320713224374

[Effem]

I think you got a good result there Simon.

"Exceptional midrange" is all well and good, but to me a speaker has to at least make a fist of all three main registers to be listenable, otherwise you might as well use an old elliptical speaker and forget about a cabinet for it.

Monitor Audio have though dropped off the radar for some reason even though they do make very good loudspeakers. Perversely, that lack of popularity means the price remains low and some real bargains are to be had.

[sburrell]

Managed to use a courier for collection instead of paying the £17 Royal Mail fee and saved half. So, £130 all-in.

I can heartily recommend parcel2go.com for great courier shipping rates.

[sburrell]

Hi,
I just wanted to thank everyone for their advice. The Monitor BR2s are in place, and sounding good. Actually, I must confess that the difference is very subtle - the bass seems a little more woolly, but the mid-band is definitely more enjoyable - voices sound far more realistic, for example.
I haven't yet performed a true side-by-side with the B&Ws, but that should be an interesting session.
So, again, thanks.
Now, if anyone's interested in helping further, I'm looking to upgrade the amp too (Butuz mentioned this was a close second as the weak link in my system) - a thread has been started... :-)
Warm regards.

[Butuz]

If you were not so far away I'd lend you me spare Arcam P75 power amp as that sounds really good using the beresford as a pre amp!!!

Butuz

[sburrell]

Damn, I'd forgotten I could use a power amp directly with the 7510! I'll have to confirm that the mod I had done applies equally to the variable out though, just to be sure. Thanks Butuz! :-)

[sburrell]

I just wanted to post a brief update to say that I'm very pleased with my MA BR2s. I'm listening to some jazz radio just now and it's so much more mellifluous than with the B&Ws. Voices are warmer and more enjoyable.

On the whole a great change. Thanks to everyone who got involved in this thread. You did a great job.

Best regards!