View Full Version : eBay sellers might learn something of value from my error of judgement
Neil McCauley
02-06-2011, 13:20
I write as a regular eBay seller (sometimes trade, but not always) of audio gear at an average of 17 items a month. I’m also a buyer. Of late I've notice an increasing number of sellers have made it clear in their adverts that the item is being re-listed “due to a non-payer”. Earlier this year, as a seller, I was obliged to put the same notice on my ads. I too had a non-payer. In fact more than one. It wasn't like that in the early days. I started with eBay in 2003. Okay, so far – so good.
My mistake was that after about 3 weeks of trying to get the money I decided not to leave negative feedback although perfectly entitled to under eBay rules. Instead I opened a ‘case’ – again in line with eBay policy. And that was that – or so I thought.
I then received my first ever negative feedback in 1,150 (as of today) transactions. Hardly the end of the world, but mildly irritating nonetheless. Now then, as the delinquent bidder had the first strike I am as a seller (and indeed as all other sellers are) precluded from leaving negative feedback of their own! Thus the delinquent bidder with say 100% perfect feedback retains that perfect feedback despite having defaulted against the stated seller terms – whereas the seller having incurred listing-costs and more is, at face value, declared the villain.
So what’s to be done?
Well, it seems that (a) eBay’s default position is to always take the buyer’s view first which means that (b) sellers, irrespective of the merits of their case are perceived as the negative party** and (c) eBay don’t really care either way ‘cos financially speaking they can't lose even if the buyer doesn’t complete.
The moral of this, for me at least and has been for some 60 transactions is to (a} state very clearly that you expect to be paid within ‘n’ days and (b) don’t put up with sob-stories which means that (c) leave your negative feedback before the delinquent buyer does – because otherwise you’ve no chance later.
** The onus is on the seller to prove they are not guilty rather than eBay and/or the seller proving guilt.
Nasty and irritating. I have only ever had one default payer and I got my feedback in first, thankfully.
Neil McCauley
02-06-2011, 13:26
Nasty and irritating. I have only ever had one default payer and I got my feedback in first, thankfully.
Funnily enough, that's precisely how I described the delinquent buyer!
This is the sort of thing that puts me off selling on ebay and I rarely buy from individuals unless it is something I really want. I always pay straight away when I win. I view the transaction as if I were in a shop i.e. hand over the readies before you can have the item.
It is sad that others cannot or will not do this.
Reid Malenfant
02-06-2011, 21:11
<snip> I always pay straight away when I win. I view the transaction as if I were in a shop i.e. hand over the readies before you can have the item.
It is sad that others cannot or will not do this.
Me to Steve, i pay within a few minutes! Or as long as it takes to type a note to the seller whilst paying via Paypal ;)
If i haven't got the money there & then i don't buy - simple innit :doh:
But let's keep it in perspective, by Howard's own admission it seems he has had over 1100 successful transactions, which when you consider eBay does require an element of trust to use it, that to me is not a bad record?
I've been buying and selling successfully on there since 2004 and consider it an excellent tool. I would never have been able to sell my goods at such high prices without it and also would not have found so many CD's and other products so easily.
Despite the occasional pitfalls, it still has far more positives than negatives IMO. You try finding the Hi-Fi bargains that are on there without it?
Reid Malenfant
02-06-2011, 21:20
Despite the occasional pitfalls
Read knobheads :doh:
it still has far more positives than negatives IMO. You try finding the Hi-Fi bargains that are on there without it?
I have had very few bad ebay experiences, maybe a couple in well over 1500 transactions ;) Nothing for major money...
Read knobheads :doh:
:lol: . . . indeed
jandl100
03-06-2011, 06:32
Now then, as the delinquent bidder had the first strike I am as a seller (and indeed as all other sellers are) precluded from leaving negative feedback of their own! Thus the delinquent bidder with say 100% perfect feedback retains that perfect feedback [U]
I must admit that as a seller with feedback over 4600 (yeah, I'm a sad case) I don't understand this statement. :scratch:
A seller can't leave neg feedback, full stop.
Why does it matter if the nasty non-paying buyer chappy leaves you neg feedback "first"? You can't do anything about it anyway. :scratch:
The most you can do (and I have done in the past) is leave a scorching comment under a positive feedback flag for the bugger.
What am I missing here?
Neil McCauley
03-06-2011, 07:40
I must admit that as a seller with feedback over 4600 (yeah, I'm a sad case) I don't understand this statement. :scratch:
A seller can't leave neg feedback, full stop.
As I understand it from eBay, the seller cannot leave a negative as a response to a negative.
Why does it matter if the nasty non-paying buyer chappy leaves you neg feedback "first"?
In my case, silly though it may seem, I was pathetically proud of my 100%. But as mentioned elsewhere, it's hardly the end of my world of course. Mind you though, the transparent fact that eBay assume that all sellers are in such cases guilty before being found to be innocent is I feel hardly encouraging.
What am I missing here?
I don't think you are missing anything
Howard
jandl100
03-06-2011, 08:02
As I understand it, a seller cannot leave a neg at all, ever.
The option simply isn't there - either leave a positive or don't leave feedback at all.
jandl100
03-06-2011, 08:05
... but if it's just a whinge about losing your 100% feedback unfairly ... then I can sympathise with that!
My feedback was 100% over 4600 transactions - and a CD I sold to a guy in the States arrived with a cracked case ... the 1st thing I knew about it was a neg. :doh::(
I'd have happily given him a refund if he'd just told me about it.
The bastard.
Neil McCauley
03-06-2011, 08:17
... but if it's just a whinge about losing your 100% feedback unfairly ... then I can sympathise with that!
My feedback was 100% over 4600 transactions - and a CD I sold to a guy in the States arrived with a cracked case ... the 1st thing I knew about it was a neg. :doh::(
I'd have happily given him a refund if he'd just told me about it.
The bastard.
And there you have it - in a nutshell or a cracked case if you prefer. And at least you got paid!
Are we all done on this thread now do you think?
Howard
john diamond
03-06-2011, 08:45
If you talk to ebay and I phoned them, they will remove the negative feedback as the bidder has not paid!
I have had negative feedback removed successfully. You can only leave feedback as a bidder if you have payed!
Beobloke
03-06-2011, 11:54
Howard,
It's annoying I know, but you simply have to take it on the chin. My 100% dropped to 99.9% a year or so back thanks to a moron but it's now back to 100% again.
Sadly, due to the number of stroppy, impatient and pig-ignorant idiots out there, it's a rare seller that has an unblemished 100% score.
Lodgesound
03-06-2011, 12:36
Something that is starting to happen with collectable machinery such as tape recorders now is that you sell a machine - get paid for it - send it out and then the buyer reports it as faulty and demands a refund which you duly give on condition that the machine is sent back which it of course is - loaded up with the faulty parts from the machine that they already own for which your machine acted as a donor.
Yes indeed it will be faulty once dismantled and broken for parts.
I will not sell any machine unless it is personally collected now or the buyer actually arranges a courier themselves - this will absolve you the seller of any responsibility regarding shipping damage. Any machines that are old and complex that I no longer have a use for I usually donate to worthy causes for free or have them destroyed now - it is simply not worth the hassle trying to sell these things unless you sell them as non-working and for parts only.
Be warned - this is an ever increasing problem with open reel machines.
Reid Malenfant
03-06-2011, 15:57
Ouch :eek: I'd be tempted to use smartwater or a UV type pen that only shows up under UV light & mark everything internally. If you get turned over that way you can call in the law ;)
Spectral Morn
03-06-2011, 16:19
Ouch :eek: I'd be tempted to use smartwater or a UV type pen that only shows up under UV light & mark everything internally. If you get turned over that way you can call in the law ;)
Who sadly won't get involved unless the amount is passed a certain figure. All they will do is write a report if you are lucky. It seems from a conversation I had awhile ago (with a recently retired cop) that the cyber crime units will only get involved if its a substantial amount of money; £150 was not enough.
The tosser who had tried to rip me off (I was very reasonable, bought his excuse of being in hospital but the brother who was acting in his stead stopped taking my calls and no Sansui 710 tuner ever arrived) got a right scare when I told him I knew where he lived and I would send the police right to his door if he did not refund me. I was able to narrow where he was down to a few streets in London. Thing is all they/he had to do was provide me with the shipping info and return my calls, all my early calls were polite. The later ones were still polite but firm and robust... cost me a few quid in regards to leaving messages; none returned despite leaving my phone number. I eventually got a refund.
That and a duff Sony tuner have been my only nasty problems. One carrier damaged Revox A77 was part paid for to repair it by the seller. really nice guy.
I always pay immediately after buying.
Regards D S D L
montesquieu
03-06-2011, 19:15
As I understand it, a seller cannot leave a neg at all, ever.
The option simply isn't there - either leave a positive or don't leave feedback at all.
This is also my understanding. Perhaps if you are a declared trade seller?
Slippershod
03-06-2011, 21:34
re: the comment above about asking ebay to remove negative feedback left by a buyer:
they definitely do this - and without any attempt to ascertain the truth of the situation, so it does cut both ways.
I received a very duff item from a (business) seller in the far east, at a far from duff price. I'd gone to some length through questions to be sure of it's precise condition etc. so was particularly disappointed.
He responded poorly to my complaint so, for once, I left negative feedback - very mildly worded at that.
He left borderline abuse as a response, to which I in turn left a comment.
Some while later, without any contact from ebay, I discovered that the negative feedback had simply disappeared.
ebay is a remarkable resource / phenomenon but it's feedback system doesn't seem to be worth a great deal, if you know how (or have the time) to play the game it seems.
Dr Bunsen Honeydew
03-06-2011, 21:37
Sadly, due to the number of stroppy, impatient and pig-ignorant idiots out there, it's a rare seller that has an unblemished 100% score.
I have :ner:
Yesh, but only because you threaten to 'tai-chi' their ass, if they don't play ball! :eyebrows:
;)
Marco.
Sadly, due to the number of stroppy, impatient and pig-ignorant idiots out there, it's a rare seller that has an unblemished 100% score.
I don't agree with that, I have one and I will only ever buy from 100% rated sellers too. I currently have 22 items on my watch list, of these only one seller is rated 99.9%, the rest are all 100%.
It is correct a seller can no longer leave a negative feedback rating, but eBay will assist if you are treated unfairly. I once bought a Dark Side of the Moon CD which was listed as the original Harvest pressing. I specifically asked about this and asked if the item had a bar-code on the rear, the seller confirmed it didn't and was a Harvest first pressing. Guess what, when it arrived it wasn't and there was a barcode on the rear cover. I contacted him and got a stream of abuse saying I had switched it and he was calling the police to report me for fraud. He couldn't leave a negative rating but left a very negative and defamatory comment. I reported the matter to eBay and they removed the comment after looking into the case.
In 7 years that's the one and only problem I have ever had and it was resolved to my satisfaction. Yes there are plenty of dishonest people out there, but we can't blame eBay for that!
StanleyB
04-06-2011, 09:03
I don't agree with that, I have one and I will only ever buy from 100% rated sellers too.
It's your decision, but you let it be influenced by someone you don't know who might have a grudge against the seller.
A case in point is the one negative feedback from a buyer on a purchase he made from me. His complaint was that I used a fake DAC chip. Based on your criteria of 100% I wouldn't expect any business from you because of that nutcase.
Agreed Stan, but as I mainly just buy CD's from eBay, I normally have a choice between 100% rated sellers and the rest, so it's an easy decision. I sell more than I buy anyway and don't like to purchase high value items, unless they are from a business seller.
But I would always buy something from you though Stanley ;)
(I guess I would change that rule if needed, but so far I have always had an alternative - normally unless I'm totally comfortable with the seller, I buy new anyway)
You can't always target 100% sellers for the reasons given above. However, you can always do a mighty bit of filtering by asking one or two pointed questions that will help you understand whether they are honest or not. I always do that, and if the reply is vague or avoids the question then I duck out.
jandl100
04-06-2011, 10:34
I don't agree with that, I have one and I will only ever buy from 100% rated sellers too. I currently have 22 items on my watch list, of these only one seller is rated 99.9%, the rest are all 100%.
Well, thanks for that. :rolleyes:
As explained above I received an unfair neg that was against eBay guidelines (CD case damaged in post to the USA and I wasn't given the opportunity to correct matters - I would have been happy to).
What's your eBay ID? - I'd like to ban you from my ebay auctions on principle! :lol:
I think when you're trading on eBay the key traits to ensure are:
1) Honesty.
2) Efficiency.
3) Good communication.
4) As a buyer, prompt payment.
5) As a seller, prompt shipping and superb packing of goods.
If you adhere to all of the above, you'd have to be very unfortunate as a buyer or a seller to get negative (or even neutral) feedback. I don't trade on eBay very often, but when I do, I adhere strictly to the above, which is why I always receive exceptional feedback. See my profile here:
http://my.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?MyEbay&CurrentPage=MyeBayFeedback&FClassic=true&ssPageName=STRK:ME:MAFBX
My pet hate above anything else, other than dishonesty, is poor communication. There is simply no excuse whatsoever for it. If you're trading on eBay, then make sure you're on-hand to respond quickly to any queries (and I mean within a few hours MAX), letting buyers know when goods will be shipped, etc, and not on bloody holiday, away somewhere or whatever!! :rolleyes: :mental:
Marco.
jandl100
04-06-2011, 10:47
Yeah, well ... I was a smug git, too, heading for 5000 top-flight feedbacks ... when that Great Bustard from the States left me a neg for a cracked CD case (yes, it was well packed, but some postal worker must have trodden on it) ... what can you do when you run up against a nutjob like that? :scratch:
I have on ever had 2 negatives, one was from the bastid that sold me a 117v PS Audio HCA2 power amp as a 240v version, so when I plugged it in it went bang. Cost me an arm and a leg to get it fixed, the seller promised to pay for the repair and thereafter never responded, so he got a deserved negative from me which resulted in a vitriolic negative in retaliation.
The second was from a guy who bought a Logic DM101 from me last year. He gave a long list of instructions how he wanted it totally dismantled, in the order it should be packed and the amount of packing he wanted. I did everything apart from drawing out the inner hub and fitting it into a shaped polystyrene block, instead I left it in the bearing shaft and placed a foam ring underneath to raise it above the sub chassis. I got a negative feedback for "poorly packaged item" even though there was no damage whatsoever to any part of the deck (including the lid) when it arrived with him. You cannot please some people :scratch:
See my profile here:
http://my.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?MyEbay&CurrentPage=MyeBayFeedback&FClassic=true&ssPageName=STRK:ME:MAFBX
Marco.
Clicked on the link and got my own feedback score :lolsign:
Lol, when you access the site, it must just sense your own account details. Just search for 'artofsound102,' on eBay, and my details should come up :)
Marco.
Yeah, well ... I was a smug git, too, heading for 5000 top-flight feedbacks ... when that Great Bustard from the States left me a neg for a cracked CD case (yes, it was well packed, but some postal worker must have trodden on it) ... what can you do when you run up against a nutjob like that? :scratch:
Not a lot, Jerry. That was pretty unfortunate and out with of your control.
However, when sending anything delicate like that, I tend to go completely OTT and 'mummify' the f*ckers - and if that means using half a roll of bubble-wrap to send 2 CDs, including putting them in boxes within boxes, and then wrapping the whole lot in even more bubble wrap, and then brown paper on the outside, then so be it!!
You should've seen the size that the package ended up being when I sent four GEC KT88 valves, I'd sold on eBay, to Hong Kong - it could've been a microwave oven that was inside, the package was that big!!! :lol: But the valves got there in one piece, and the buyer was over the moon, so for me, it was well worth the effort.
In order to minimise (as far as possible) any chance of things being damaged, you have to go totally OTT on the packaging, with the view of items sent being able to survive 'a direct nuclear hit', under the full knowledge that the bastards in various post offices are going to kick, drop, and stand on things, all the way to their destination - and indeed take great delight in doing so!! :steam: :wanker:
Marco.
Clicked on the link and got my own feedback score :lolsign:
Me too! Reminded me how pee'd off I get when sellers don't leave feedback back... I nearly always give feedback, I've left 1,010 but only received 875 back - I always leave feedback as soon as I can, pay instantly if possible, and communicate well, yet nearly 14% of sellers haven't even bothered to reward me with positive feedback... :(
Well, thanks for that. :rolleyes:
As explained above I received an unfair neg that was against eBay guidelines (CD case damaged in post to the USA and I wasn't given the opportunity to correct matters - I would have been happy to).
What's your eBay ID? - I'd like to ban you from my ebay auctions on principle! :lol:
Strange that that should have upset you, when I wasn't even replying to your post :scratch:
Another thing I do is never send any goods via 'snail mail' (Second Class post) in the UK. Even if the buyer won't pay for First Class, I'd rather pay the extra myself and make sure it gets there!
What's the point in fannying around, and risking stuff getting lost or taking ages to arrive, for the sake of a few quid? It would be different I suppose if I were running a business, but for the odd few items I send, it's not worth any aggro.
Therefore, the minimum standard of delivery service I use for sending UK parcels is 'Signed For' First Class, and sometimes even Special Delivery, depending what items are being sent.
I also always inform buyers on the day when goods have been shipped and what the Tracking Reference Number is, for their assurance and peace of mind. And any goods purchased are always shipped within 48 hours (usually 24).
And as a buyer, I always pay immediately, as soon as I receive the purchase confirmation email from eBay.
It's just a matter of being switched on and professional. I guess that I'm disciplined that way because I run my own business (although not on eBay), and so I'm very efficient and 'customer focussed' :)
Marco.
That's pretty much the model I use Marco. I figure conducting business like that goes a long way toward keeping your buyers happy. I also stopped shipping abroad a couple of years back, too much hassle.
I include in my listing description my full postal policy, an assurance I will do all I can to resolve any problems, requesting they don't leave a negative before contacting me - I email to repeat all this and include a personalised packing slip in with the goods.
Seems to work :)
(and guys, I'm surprised my comments seem to have upset some people, all I'm saying is what I do, I'm not criticising anyone, just outlining my preferred method of purchasing. If I have a choice, which in most case I do, I always go for the 100% rated seller - is that wrong?)
I think when you're trading on eBay the key traits to ensure are:
1) Honesty.
2) Efficiency.
3) Good communication.
4) As a buyer, prompt payment.
5) As a seller, prompt shipping and superb packing of goods.
If you adhere to all of the above, you'd have to be very unfortunate as a buyer or a seller to get negative (or even neutral) feedback. I don't trade on eBay very often, but when I do, I adhere strictly to the above, which is why I always receive exceptional feedback. See my profile here:
http://my.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?MyEbay&CurrentPage=MyeBayFeedback&FClassic=true&ssPageName=STRK:ME:MAFBX
My pet hate above anything else, other than dishonesty, is poor communication. There is simply no excuse whatsoever for it. If you're trading on eBay, then make sure you're on-hand to respond quickly to any queries (and I mean within a few hours MAX), letting buyers know when goods will be shipped, etc, and not on bloody holiday, away somewhere or whatever!! :rolleyes: :mental:
Marco.
From my experience as a seller, you're quite right about your 5 points. It's not rocket science BUT we shouldn't assume that all sellers are professional traders who can dedicate their time to respond within a few hours. I would say that the vast majority of Ebay sellers have 9-5s with a commute and a family and kids to attend to in the evening and about 5 minutes to themselves. If you're going on Ebay expecting people to give you their undivided attention because you're waiving some money at them, then you're setting yourself up for disappointment.. Anger is caused by wrongful expectation, to paraphrase a famous philosopher.
The most important things for both buyer and seller are communication and generosity/understanding (for want of a more precise phrase) - even if things don't work out for whatever reason, there shouldn't be any need for animosity and then a negative. But then some people make enemies easily in their everyday life too - Ebay is no less a reflection of general life than any other social activity, if anything probably more polarising than real life.
Many times as a seller I've had problems with people not communicating for a couple of weeks and then asking if they can drop out of the deal.. No problem - you click on 'request to cancel', they agree and you leave each other positive feedback based on how it was handled.
As a buyer I've had someone not send the item for a month, drop communication completely and too late for feedback or a claim. One day some weeks later, I find myself passing the area and nervously decide to drop by, introduce myself, he looks awkward but invites me in. He hands me a glass of home-made cider, apologises and gets the amp out and we chat about home-made cider for a while.. All sorted and ended nicely! I wasn't really interested in why he didn't send it 'cos I know we all aren't robots and people have their ups and downs..
It is always the lack of communication or bad communication that causes problems which then lead to negatives.
A seller can't leave neg feedback, full stop.
As I understand it from eBay, the seller cannot leave a negative as a response to a negative.
Jerry's right - you can't, as a seller, leave a negative in any sense, not even a negative comment marked as a positive (neither are allowed to do that).
The policy was introduced by Ebay because buyers who had bad experiences were too frightened of receiving a retaliatory negative, normally completely false, to give any meaningful, truthful feedback about the bad seller.
Certainly you used to read that a lot in people's feedback - a buyer and seller would both have negative feedback from each other but neither of them tallied, normally the most over the top one in capitals from the seller being the false statement..
It just meant that the feedback system was meaningless.
Instead, to help out sellers, Ebay introduced Unpaid Item Strikes which don't show up publicly but can limit people's ability to bid on things.
Unfortunately, still these are used in a retaliatory fashion by sellers! You try to arrange pick-ups or payments and the seller is difficult or plain refuses to communicate for whatever reason and yet leaves an Unpaid Item Strike despite it being they who are obfuscating the sale. That definitely deserves a negative for the seller..
I've had that happen to me recently, whereby I was at the time 15 minutes later than arranged for a pick-up due to my car not starting, only for the guy to be rude to me on the phone because he'd made some previously unmentioned evening arrangements (he had already left the house). Because I told him via Ebay message that i thought he'd been rather rude, the guy refused to arrange another meeting (it was collection only), didn't want to see me BUT still punished me for his bruised ego by leaving an Unpaid Item Strike.. after he'd secured the re-listed sale.
I did get it removed after showing Ebay our communication but still, I don't understand why he couldn't just communicate honestly and cancel the sale if he didn't want to meet. Needless to say, I left him a negative for that.. A shame.
Just bought a rack-mount kit for my old Mac, only cost £1.. still no response from the seller - probably can't be bothered for a pound - but what are the odds he starts an unpaid item case when he wants his listing fees refunded? Probably 80%. I could pay in advance with PayPal to avoid it but I've had too many PayPal endorsed bad experiences (fraudulent claims but fortunately none hitting me financially) so no longer have an account - cash and person to person transactions are kings in my world.
Honest communication and a more zen attitude to life should eradicate 99.9% of bad times on Ebay. The other 0.1% will be the real crooks and a lot of those stick out a mile.
I would agree, Howard.
Nat, whilst your unfailingly patient and Christian attitude is to be applauded, and good on you if that's how you genuinely behave in these situations, I'm afraid that I just don't have your tolerance or patience for what I call 'farter-abouters'.
If everyone was as lackadaisical with how they traded on eBay, as you've outlined, then the whole system would fall down very quickly and descend into chaos.
My view is very simple: if you're going to do something, then do it right or NOT AT ALL.
And that means making sure you are able to honour the commitment necessary to do carry out a job properly, whether that is trading on eBay, or anything else.
Therefore, quite simply, if you're unable to operate quickly and efficiently, due to a busy life or family commitments, then don't trade on eBay - or at the VERY LEAST make your situation absolutely clear to other people IN ADVANCE, on your adverts as a seller and/or in your behaviour as a buyer, so that people know exactly where they stand and what to expect.
And then see who is going to be daft enough or have the patience to deal with you..........
Otherwise it is completely unrealistic to expect people having to wait weeks to receive any necessary communication, or for goods to be shipped. I certainly would not entertain having such a ridiculous situation, unless I knew through advance warning what to expect. Although, TBH, I doubt that I'd deal with anyone like that, as it would have 'potential hassle' written all over it.
Only twice have I encountered lackadaisical and unprofessional behaviour with my experiences on eBay (both were as a buyer waiting for goods paid for to be shipped), and on both occasions the threat of negative feedback and opening a case on eBay got their arses in gear!
However, I would say that my experience of eBay has generally been very good, and so I consider it to be a useful tool. I'll therefore continue to offer exemplary service as both a buyer and seller, and hope that these good habits will rub off on others ;)
Marco.
worthingpagan
06-06-2011, 09:21
Regardless of what t&c's a seller writes in their listing, ebay allow buyers 4 days to pay before allowing a payment not recieved claim. There are filter's in place to allow sellers to screen out buyers without Paypal accounts, credit cards on file or with more than 2 Unpaid item strikes in 12 months, etc etc. Some sellers are businesses who trade as "private" sellers, which denies buyers the same protection under sale of goods act and distance selling regulations. There has to be trust and communication from both sides. ;)
Indeed. I always give folk a reasonable amount of time to act before chasing things up. And how they respond (or not) then determines my next move.
Like you say, it's all about trust and GOOD COMMUNICATION. There will always be scumbags you can't trust, but with everyone else, there is no excuse whatsoever for poor comms.
Anyone can write and send an email (or message through eBay) and explain the reason for a problem!
Marco.
I would agree, Howard.
Nat, whilst your unfailingly patient and Christian attitude is to be applauded, and good on you if that's how you genuinely behave in these situations, I'm afraid that I just don't have your tolerance or patience for what I call 'farter-abouters'.
If everyone was as lackadaisical with how they traded on eBay, as you've outlined, then the whole system would fall down very quickly and descend into chaos.
My view is very simple: if you're going to do something, then do it right or NOT AT ALL.
And that means making sure you are able to honour the commitment necessary to do carry out a job properly, whether that is trading on eBay, or anything else.
Therefore, quite simply, if you're unable to operate quickly and efficiently, due to a busy life or family commitments, then don't trade on eBay - or at the VERY LEAST make your situation absolutely clear to other people IN ADVANCE, on your adverts as a seller and/or in your behaviour as a buyer, so that people know exactly where they stand and what to expect.
And then see who is going to be daft enough or have the patience to deal with you..........
Otherwise it is completely unrealistic to expect people having to wait weeks to receive any necessary communication, or for goods to be shipped. I certainly would not entertain having such a ridiculous situation, unless I knew through advance warning what to expect. Although, TBH, I doubt that I'd deal with anyone like that, as it would have 'potential hassle' written all over it.
Only twice have I encountered lackadaisical and unprofessional behaviour with my experiences on eBay (both were as a buyer waiting for goods paid for to be shipped), and on both occasions the threat of negative feedback and opening a case on eBay got their arses in gear!
However, I would say that my experience of eBay has generally been very good, and so I consider it to be a useful tool. I'll therefore continue to offer exemplary service as both a buyer and seller, and hope that these good habits will rub off on others ;)
Marco.
My experience of Ebay too has been very very good over the ten years I've been using it, there's only ever the odd one person every now and again who creates difficulty and that is only ever created out of poor communication, and by that I mean honest communication like being truthful about why it hasn't been sent or why you haven't been able to pay quickly or perhaps why you don't want to sell the item any more..
OK, being totally honest isn't always realistic as you have to judge how someone's going to react and some people would still leave a negative even if your loved one had genuinely died - some will still just see that as an "excuse" because deep down they are taking it all as a personal insult, they're Ids are shouting "respect me!" and it's drowning out their empathy.
I know it is commonly called a "Christian" attitude but it existed long before Christianity started claiming its followers were better than the rest of the human race, Christians can be just as unchristian as the next aethiest - it's just about not being angry all the time and seeing a bigger picture. Unfortunately a lot of people only find that attitude in their last years..
Indeed. I always give folk a reasonable amount of time to act before chasing things up. And how they respond (or not) then determines my next move.
Like you say, it's all about trust and GOOD COMMUNICATION. There will always be scumbags you can't trust, but with everyone else, there is no excuse whatsoever for poor comms.
Anyone can write and send an email (or message through eBay) and explain the reason for a problem!
Marco.
Ah, see! That's no less than what I was saying - however, some people's "reasonable amount of time" can be less than 24 hours..
My examples were extreme but I wanted to point out that there was no reason for either to get you fuming! They both worked out completely fine and I saved myself and them lots of stress.
Yes, yes I guess we all hear what you have to say. But the bottom line remains that:
YOU DIDN'T PAY and
YOU DECIDED TO IGNORE THE SELLER'S UNAMBIGUOUS TERMS OF TRADING.
Surely you must take some responsibility for your actions/in-actions?
I really wonder what more you hope to achieve via this futile online self-justification?
You seem to know a lot about this guy I mentioned and the background behind it Howard? Was this why you started the thread, to start a public debate about my problem seller? How did you know I had one? Should note that the seller and I agreed a cash payment! Then he refused to sell.. but left Unpaid item strike anyway. Then he got nasty..
I thought Marco had made it very clear that personal Ebay disputes where to remain out of these threads.
I thought Marco had made it very clear that personal Ebay disputes where to remain out of these threads.
Indeed - and that applies to both of you! Keep all comments to being of a general nature, please. I'll reply to some recent points made later.
Marco.
Recent posts regarding personal eBay disputes with other AoS members have been removed. Nat, FFS, wind yer neck in!
AoS and I have ZERO interest in this bullshit of who done what to whom - so listen up people:
The next person to start this crap ANYWHERE on AoS, not just on this thread, or even so much as HINT at it, will be banned for a week.
I do hope that I've made myself clear!!
Marco.
Thanks Marco - Fully understood and I was trying to stay away, ignoring Howards other threads relating to it.
I'd written my last post describing the background to it before I'd seen your post, and was committed.. Happy to have it removed and hopefully restore some decorum.
:cool:
pdwoodswood
12-06-2011, 19:42
I buy and sell on eBay. They have it going on. Where else can you find the great number of items and prices? Where else can you find a world market for items you sell. I find the higher price buyers are in Hong kong, Japan, Hawaii,
other far Eastern countries. How would one reach that market otherwise. For vintage audio and valves the buyers in these countries know what they want.
Not certain what drives this but there is a difference.
Let us all complain about eBay and loudly, then be glad it is what it is.
david woodruff
p.s. how often have you used eBay as an encyclopedia?
Hi David
It's a good point and I agree with you. Would you kindly pop over to the Welcome area and introduce yourself as this is your first post? Thank you :)
I buy and sell on eBay. They have it going on. Where else can you find the great number of items and prices? Where else can you find a world market for items you sell. I find the higher price buyers are in Hong kong, Japan, Hawaii,
other far Eastern countries. How would one reach that market otherwise.
Nowhere else..
p.s. how often have you used eBay as an encyclopedia?
Thousands of times over the last 10 years - it's the only reason I know of and about so much gear!
How many nice, genuine, friendly people have I met through Ebay? - Loads; good conversations, some characters, get to hear other kit they have etc.
Because of that, it needs to be regarded completely differently to an online retailer or a super-efficient service.
I think that if you must insist on super-fast delivery and all that and can't handle the wide range of people you encounter - odd characters, some uptight, some over-relaxed - you should find your gear elsewhere or even change your outlook.
One of my business's serves over a thousand customers per month on Ebay. We have found it impossible to maintain 100% positive feedback. There are just to many sad cases who pay for the cheapest postage and then leave you a negative because they didnt get it next day.
Example: just seen an order that came in 10 minutes ago: item needed urgently could we post it tonight for tomorrow. Its after 11pm and he selected the free second class option. The item costs less than a tenner............ cock!
Oh FFS, folk like that are a waste of valuable air!! :mental: :mental:
And what's this changing your mind malarkey all about? I say stop acting like a f*cking girl and decide whether kit is up for sale or not, and if it is, then bloody keep it there and honour the transaction....!
There's only one thing that fecks me off more than lackadaisical, disorganised clowns on eBay, and that's indecisive ones!!!
Marco.
Reid Malenfant
13-06-2011, 22:34
Oh, look at the time :lol:
Sorry, it's obviously not thread related :doh: What have i been doing? :scratch:
:eek: Lovin it :cool:
Well there was me harking on about how good it all was on eBay and today I took a cheque into the bank for £90.00 for something I sold last week . . . . it bounced!
Ho hum :scratch:
You accept cheques from eBay dweebs? Are you off yer nut? :mental:
:lol:
Marco.
You accept cheques from eBay dweebs? Are you off yer nut? :mental:
Indeed, however I never post the item until it clears - so not so bad, just inconvenient. But it might be the last time now.
Indeed... I'm strictly and instant Payment via Paypal (as a Gift - hence no fee deduction) sort of chap ;)
Anything else is just way too much grief!
Marco.
Indeed... I'm strictly and instant Payment via Paypal (as a Gift - hence no fee deduction) sort of chap ;)
Internet bank transfer works quite well and I'm happy to do it if they are.
Yes, that too. Anything that doesn't involve farting around to get yer dosh! :)
Marco.
Internet bank transfer works quite well and I'm happy to do it if they are.
Me too although am often mystified how some people won't do this because they feel it's a risk! Far more risky using PayPal (with fraudulent credit card chargebacks or just plain 'item not received' claims - I've been a victim before) and they'd be happy sending out their bank details on every cheque they've ever issued themselves..
I guess some people don't understand banking.
One of my business's serves over a thousand customers per month on Ebay. We have found it impossible to maintain 100% positive feedback. There are just to many sad cases who pay for the cheapest postage and then leave you a negative because they didnt get it next day.
Example: just seen an order that came in 10 minutes ago: item needed urgently could we post it tonight for tomorrow. Its after 11pm and he selected the free second class option. The item costs less than a tenner............ cock!
Haha, indeed..
You accept cheques from eBay dweebs? Are you off yer nut? :mental:
:lol:
Marco.
Some people insist on them over bank transfers and even cash deposits into their accounts! I always assume they're old and still living in the 80s at best..
A recent seller has send me the item but the cheque has still to be cashed... I sincerely hope he doesn't cash it when I'm unexpectedly skint!
ursus262
16-06-2011, 21:43
This actually happened to me a few weeks ago. if a non-paying bidder leaves neg feedback, then you can raise a non-paying strike against them which goes on their records. If the buyer still doesn't pay, you can apply to have the negative feedback removed, which is what happened in my case, thus restoring my reputation. You need to open a payment case, and contact ebay, but rest assured there is redress.
Neil McCauley
16-06-2011, 22:19
This actually happened to me a few weeks ago. if a non-paying bidder leaves neg feedback, then you can raise a non-paying strike against them which goes on their records. If the buyer still doesn't pay, you can apply to have the negative feedback removed, which is what happened in my case, thus restoring my reputation. You need to open a payment case, and contact ebay, but rest assured there is redress.
And that's what I did and I got a right-result, and I'm well pleased.
Nice one!
A buyer once sent me a cheque that bounced 3 times (a cheque on a Taiwanese bank - probably wasn't his fault actually, more bank's incompetence in how to cash it) yet left me a negative for not selling the item to him.. I took that up with Ebay and also had it removed.
I've also experienced things the other way around where, despite my attempts to arrange payment as agreed, the seller refused contact for two weeks while he re-sold the item. He then left an unpaid item strike!
I spoke to Ebay, showed them our correspondence, my last attempt to pay, the dates and the sellers next response two weeks later and they promptly removed the strike. I of course reported the abuse of unpaid item policy (and his messages of harassment after I left a negative - he took the -ve very badly!) in case he should do it again to people.
So yes, any problems with sellers or buyers are easily sorted out with Ebay as long as in general you're not causing much trouble!
Which again is further reason for me not to understand people who get so tetchy about Ebay and the people they encounter - even if you handle things badly and make a real mess of things, you can still get it all sorted out as if nothing happened! And then move on..
So why the stress and anger in the first place?? (I think it's because people have a kind of online technophobia or lack of understanding/mis-trust and so get worked up because it all feels so "out of control !!" )
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