Zu audio modified technics sl-1200 [Archive]

Marco

07-04-2011, 23:44

Yes, interesting... I like some of the concepts, and the paint job is cool! :)

However, it's a lot of dosh to still end up with a T/T that has a stock bearing and platter (albeit the latter is tarted-up slightly), both of which in my experience seriously limit the performance and ultimate potential of the SL-1200.

Also, the arm board appears to only be compatible with Rega tonearms, which in my experience aren't a good match, sonically, with the Techy. And crucially, the only off-board PSU option is the KAB, which is about as good as the stock Timestep PSU (I've had both), but not in the same league as the Paul Hynes SR5...

Therefore, as interesting as the Zu mods are (and good luck to anyone who decides to go that route), it's not a solution that I'd particularly recommend.

The only thing I would like to have done is this:

Upon request, pitch control is removed from circuit and deck.

That's something that, as far as I know, has never been tackled by Dave Cawley, KAB, or anyone else who carries out fundamental modifications to the SL-1200. I'm sure that removing the pitch control would improve the sound (one would then presume that a whole new top plate would be fitted?); it would certainly make it look less like a 'DJ deck'!

However, the biggest thing to rejoice here is the fact that quite a few established hi-end companies are now offering modifications for the Techy - a sure sign that it's now (at last) being seen as a 'serious' turntable, and one which is slowly but surely eroding the 'belt drive is best' brainwashing, impregnated into the stubborn and intransigent skulls of the flat-earth fraternity....

The day's not too far away when a modded Techy will be the de-facto choice for discerning vinyl enthusiasts who value SPPV in audio more than the prestige value of a so-called 'desirable badge' ;)

Marco.

WOStantonCS100

08-04-2011, 05:07

Removing the pitch controller is a very bad idea for anyone who might be thinking of adding 78rpm (ala KAB) at some point. That becomes very valuable if not imperative to play those old discs at their propper speed, which varried up or down.

:scratch: At that price point, and for what they are offering, even I, someone who owns (and loves) 10+ Technics quartz DD TT's, would look elsewhere. I'm not discounting their work or insinuating that it doesn't improve the sonics; but, for that quid, there are a number of other TT's I would buy instead (SP-10MK2, Salvation, etc.).

Beobloke

08-04-2011, 08:18

I like the way they leave the original rubber mat in place as well, which is one of the first things that should go!

Also, what if I don't want my "Ringly jingly bits" secured? :eyebrows:

spiritofmusic

08-04-2011, 08:39

Zu's mods/products have always been very effective from a sound quality point of view, and I know they have been working on these mods 'under the radar' since 2007. Despite this going in a different way from other sophisticated 1200 mods, Zu's track record suggests an interesting perspective, at the very least.I'm hoping to get a listen in next few months when their uk importer brings in a copy.

However I do understand the point that Trans Fi Salvation etc will be very competitive at this price point. My concern is that I'll get a home demo using my Zu 103r, which I won't on alternatives very easily.

Remember, the price does include the Rega top of the range tonearm

Cliff

08-04-2011, 08:40

:eek:No way I would spend that much on the Technics and in my (limited) experience with it, there is no need to.

chris@panteg

08-04-2011, 09:11

:eek:No way I would spend that much on the Technics and in my (limited) experience with it, there is no need to.

Err I'm afraid to say i think i agree with you Cliff .

Marco

08-04-2011, 09:17

Hi Biff,

Removing the pitch controller is a very bad idea for anyone who might be thinking of adding 78rpm (ala KAB) at some point. That becomes very valuable if not imperative to play those old discs at their propper speed, which varried up or down.

Good point, although personally I have no interest in 78s, so if I could have the pitch control removed and a nice new top plate fitted, professionally finished in a colour of my choice, I'd do it.

Perhaps Marc would mention this to the UK importer when he sees him? If it's possible, I would have it done to my T/T.

Hi Marc,

Zu's mods/products have always been very effective from a sound quality point of view, and I know they have been working on these mods 'under the radar' since 2007. Despite this going in a different way from other sophisticated 1200 mods, Zu's track record suggests an interesting perspective, at the very least.I'm hoping to get a listen in next few months when their uk importer brings in a copy.

I'd definitely agree. Indeed, I rate the Zu-modified DL-103 as the best aftermarket improved 103 available. The problem I have is that in my opinion there are better, more effective, ways of modifying the SL-1200 for around the same price, or less.

A stock mat (and as far as I know, stock feet?), a KAB PSU, and an RB1000, with a stock bearing and lightly-modified stock platter, despite small improvements elsewhere, overall is not going to offer the same level of sonic performance as an SL-1200 fitted with a decent mat, Isonoes, Paul Hynes (SR3) PSU, a Jelco SA-750, SME M2 (or Audionote) tonearm, and an MN bearing, which at a guess should come in at roughly the same price.

Although the Zu mods are welcomed, and should be applauded, there is nothing particularly fundamental or innovative being offered.

The reason for this, as I've said before, is because none of these companies (Zu, Origin Live, or any of the others) are engineers and so don't have the skills or the tooling to carry out modifications which fundamentally improve the Techy from a ground roots level, namely designing a bespoke high-quality bearing and platter from scratch, which Mike New has done.

And it is precisely *that fact* which will ensure that Mike stays ahead of the game. Until someone engineers a better bearing or platter solution for the Techy (highly unlikely), that situation will remain. The other stuff, although interesting and valuable in its own right, is really just 'window dressing'.

Also, IME, Rega tonearms, sonically, are NOT the best match for the SL-1200. Therefore, Zu are limiting the T/Ts potential by only allowing Rega arms to fit their (undoubtedly excellent) new arm boards.

Hi Cliff,

No way I would spend that much on the Technics and in my (limited) experience with it, there is no need to.

You're entitled to your opinion, of course, but others and my extensive experience says otherwise! ;)

I suppose it depends on how far you want to go.

Err I'm afraid to say i think i agree with you Cliff

Bollocks - sorry, Chris!

Marco (whose £3k+ modded Techy is one of the best T/Ts he's heard at any price, and would gladly demonstrate it to anyone, anytime, anywhere :)).

MartinT

08-04-2011, 09:18

massive Zu engineered and precision machined from billet 6061 armboard that is mounted directly into the composite core of the SL-1200

Intriguing, but as Marco says a shame that it only takes the Rega arms. In my mind, the thing that is really missing from such an expensive modification is a superior bearing. Once you have tried the Mike New bearing, there is no going back and the Zu system is going to be missing one of the really big steps towards the heights that this deck can achieve.

Cliff

08-04-2011, 09:24

After looking at the details more closely, I will admit it looks interesting.
But I do have an idea that maybe, as others have intimated, Rega arms, as good as they are, aren't the best idea for the Technics platform, nor for Denon 103 cartridges in any iteration.
My recommendation to anyone with an unmodified Technics would be to get the tonearm rewire first, which doesn't cost very much at all.
Cheers,
Cliff

prestonchipfryer

08-04-2011, 09:29

The bearing is ONE of the MOST IMPORTANT thing to upgrade. Also why only Rega arms? Like the idea of losing the pitch, it would certainly tidy up the top plate somewhat.

John

Marco

08-04-2011, 09:32

Intriguing, but as Marco says a shame that it only takes the Rega arms. In my mind, the thing that is really missing from such an expensive modification is a superior bearing. Once you have tried the Mike New bearing, there is no going back and the Zu system is going to be missing one of the really big steps towards the heights that this deck can achieve

Absolutely and utterly 100% spot on. I'm afraid that the hard (and perhaps unpalatable for some?) fact is that unless you've heard a Techy fitted with an MN bearing, you haven't heard a Techy at all! And the Timestep effort ain't the answer either.

Sorry to be blunt, but people need to start getting this into their heads, even if they sadly can't afford the items concerned. Burying your head in the sand, and not facing up to reality, however, helps no-one.

Marco.

MCRU

08-04-2011, 09:35

Interesting thread, no way I would buy it, having just changed my arm and head shell my TT has reached new heights (details and pics to follow), pity that un-suspecting punters will shell out all that wonga and think they have a good vinyl spinner, we know different!

Marco

08-04-2011, 10:37

But I do have an idea that maybe, as others have intimated, Rega arms, as good as they are, aren't the best idea for the Technics platform, nor for Denon 103 cartridges in any iteration.

Precisely, Cliff. It won't exactly best facilitate the use of their Zu-modded 103s, will it? :doh: ;)

My recommendation to anyone with an unmodified Technics would be to get the tonearm rewire first, which doesn't cost very much at all.
Cheers,

That's a decent recommendation, providing that one is intending on keeping the stock tonearm. And why not, if an MM cartridge is going to be used?

Otherwise, once the (dreadful, in a hi-fi sense) stock mat and feet are sorted, a quality off-board PSU should come first (and with it, the removal of the one supplied under the platter as standard), the cumulative effect of which is fundamentally more signficant than any tonearm rewire.

Marco.

The Vinyl Adventure

08-04-2011, 10:46

Yes, interesting... I like some of the concepts, and the paint job is cool! :)

However, it's a lot of dosh to still end up with a T/T that has a stock bearing and platter (albeit the latter is tarted-up slightly), both of which in my experience seriously limit the performance and ultimate potential of the SL-1200.

Also, the arm board appears to only be compatible with Rega tonearms, which in my experience aren't a good match, sonically, with the Techy. And crucially, the only off-board PSU option is the KAB, which is about as good as the stock Timestep PSU (I've had both), but not in the same league as the Paul Hynes SR5...

Therefore, as interesting as the Zu mods are (and good luck to anyone who decides to go that route), it's not a solution that I'd particularly recommend.

The only thing I would like to have done is this:

That's something that, as far as I know, has never been tackled by Dave Cawley, KAB, or anyone else who carries out fundamental modifications to the SL-1200. I'm sure that removing the pitch control would improve the sound (one would then presume that a whole new top plate would be fitted?); it would certainly make it look less like a 'DJ deck'!

However, the biggest thing to rejoice here is the fact that quite a few established hi-end companies are now offering modifications for the Techy - a sure sign that it's now (at last) being seen as a 'serious' turntable, and one which is slowly but surely eroding the 'belt drive is best' brainwashing, impregnated into the stubborn and intransigent skulls of the flat-earth fraternity....

The day's not too far away when a modded Techy will be the de-facto choice for discerning vinyl enthusiasts who value SPPV in audio more than the prestige value of a so-called 'desirable badge' ;)

Marco.

i disabled my pitch control ... its easy marco ... you just join to pins together ... it ddint do much if anything to the sound

Marco

08-04-2011, 10:53

Hi Hamish,

Perhaps not (I'd need to evaluate it myself - being someone who can clearly hear the subtle improvement, for example, of disabling the strobe light ;)), but if done properly, it would most certainly improve the T/Ts aesthetics.

Once the pitch control mechanism and cut-out were removed, I'd love a new top plate fitted in a beautiful, high quality plain piano black finish, or perhaps the same in silver, with the surface totally devoid of any writing or emblems on it.

That would look seriously classy! :)

Marco.

MartinT

08-04-2011, 10:53

It shouldn't have any effect at all, Hamish, since the slider has a centre detent/switch that switches adjustable pitch off, the same as shorting the two pins.

Marco

08-04-2011, 10:57

In theory, sure, but you never know! ;)

Marco.

The Vinyl Adventure

08-04-2011, 11:00

It shouldn't have any effect at all, Hamish, since the slider has a centre detent/switch that switches adjustable pitch off, the same as shorting the two pins.

i didnt think it did ... i thought it did to start with but then once i changed it back i didnt notice anything ... one of "those" situations!

Cliff

08-04-2011, 11:15

"That's a decent recommendation, providing that one is intending on keeping the stock tonearm. And why not, if an MM cartridge is going to be used?

Otherwise, once the (dreadful, in a hi-fi sense) stock mat and feet are sorted, a quality off-board PSU should come first (and with it, the removal of the one supplied under the platter), the cumulative effect of which is fundamentally more signficant than any tonearm rewire.

Marco"

I wouldn't argue your findings with the Technics, as you have much more and longer experience with it than I do, and have gone farther with mods than I PROBABLY ever will.

BUT, I will reiterate that in my, admittedly limited, experience with it, the tonearm rewire makes more of a difference than feet and probably even mats, especially if one can control for VTA. Before my rewire I had doubts about the table being capable of a level of performance that would satisfy me after having had the quality of deck I have had in the past. Ditto for the Denon cartrdges.

After the rewire and temporary return to the stock feet, I am much less doubtful, if doubtful at all. I have given up interest in the other deck I was considering, and fully plan to stick with the Technics.

I base my assessment not on any elusive ideal of real or live music, but on my aural memory of my previous set up(which was the best I have ever had or ever will have), and simply whether the current set up pleases me, which it now does.

In the areas of PRAT, dynamics and emotional involvement, which are so important to me, my Technics and Denon as currently configured, are really engaging me and, very surprisingly, are not too far off from my standard, which is my previous deck, the Shindo 301 with Shindo SPU.

Cheers, Cliff

Marco

08-04-2011, 12:17

Hi Cliff,

Glad that the Techy is hitting the spot for you, given that you've come to it from owning some pretty hi-end T/Ts, which shows its true calibre :)

I'm not doubting that rewiring the stock tonearm is hugely beneficial (I had the full KAB mods once on my T/T, tonearm and otherwise, with damping trough and everything), but the fact is that a PSU upgrade has a much more significant effect on the performance of the Techy than any tonearm rewire.

With respect, you wouldn't know yet, as you haven't done the comparison.

Therefore, upgrading the PSU is what I'd always recommend to people first when modifying the SL-1200 :cool:

Marco.

Cliff

08-04-2011, 12:26

Hi Marco,

I don't want to take over this thread with this nor have you needlessly repeat yourself, but would you mind providing a short description of what changes I would likely get with the KAB PSU upgrade?
I am curious and interested.
My thinking has been that with how good it sounds now plugged into my isolation transformer, which I suspect is feeding it some very clean ac and keeping nasties out, why bother with it? I hear no lack of attack, no seeming problems in speed stability, etc..:scratch:

Thanks,
Cliff

Cliff

08-04-2011, 18:35

Oh, really? Thanks for the input.

Btw, the A23 T1 tranny is excellent.Still one of the biggest audio upgrades I have ever experienced.
Here's hoping you will be able to afford one some day.
Cheers,
Cliff

Marco

08-04-2011, 18:38

Eh - are you trying to be funny, Cliff?

If that's some sort of jibe because I haven't answered your query quick enough, then don't be so rude. I've been out in the garden all day!

Marco.

MCRU

08-04-2011, 18:43

What effect does simply taking the stock PSU out and housing it away from the TT then?

MCRU

08-04-2011, 18:44

Cliff,
Do you live anywhere near the Jeff Rowland factory? If so perhaps you could put a small rocket up their arses for me? May liven their customer services up a bit!

Marco

08-04-2011, 18:47

Before Cliff does anything, he's going to have to explain his last remark, otherwise he'll be taking a wee holiday!!

Marco.

Reid Malenfant

08-04-2011, 18:49

I've been out in the garden all day!

Marco.
I could say something about that but i'd better not :eyebrows: I can see you are probably in no mood for it Marco ;)

MCRU

08-04-2011, 18:49

MCRU

08-04-2011, 18:55

Maybe Marco has some top bollok outdoor speaker system so he can pipe his tunes out for the neighbours to enjoy?

Marco

08-04-2011, 18:57

I think he has gone to bed but that was rather strange!

Indeed (and laughable), as was this sarcastic little remark "funny":

Oh, really? Thanks for the input.

Hi Mark,

I could say something about that but i'd better not I can see you are probably in no mood for it Marco...

I'm fine, and always up for a laugh, so let's hear the joke, until we find out if our American friend needs a lesson in manners. Unless it's some bizarre misunderstanding, Cliff has got some explaining to do! ;)

Marco.

MCRU

08-04-2011, 19:01

You know the old yorkshire saying marco? There's nowt so strange as folk!

Reid Malenfant

08-04-2011, 19:05

Ok brother ;)

I've been out in the garden all day!
No doubt chasing the sheep :eyebrows: I can here them now... "Oh no, not that baaaaaaaaast*d again, he never leaves ewe alone" :D

:sofa:

4129

Marco

08-04-2011, 19:17

Ha - how else do you think I get the cutlets ready for Sunday lunch?? :lol:

Marco.

Alex_UK

08-04-2011, 20:09

Ha - how else do you think I get the cutlets ready for Sunday lunch?? :lol:

Marco.

You're not supposed to marinate lamb from the inside daftee! :lol:

Wakefield Turntables

09-04-2011, 09:14

You're not supposed to marinate lamb from the inside daftee! :lol:

:lol: oo-er missus!

Marco

09-04-2011, 09:55

Oi, my 'mint sauce' isn't that fusty!! :lol: :eyebrows:

Marco.

Alex_UK

09-04-2011, 11:04

Oi, my 'mint sauce' isn't that fusty!! :lol: :eyebrows:

Marco.

Did you mean "fussy" or "musty"? :D

EDIT - oh, I see - "fusty" is a version of "musty" - I thought it was a typo! :doh:

Marco

09-04-2011, 12:32

LOL, daftee-chops.... I seem to remember that we've had this kind of convo before!! 'Pedants' challenging me like this will always lose :lol:

;)

Marco.

Cliff

10-04-2011, 07:22

Marco seems to want a clarification of my comments.

I will provide it when I get back from the garden.

I thought you Brits were supposed to be intelligent?

Marco

10-04-2011, 07:40

Ah... Nice one. The use of smileys does help sometimes, though, Cliff! ;)

When I've returned from church, cut the grass, washed the car, had a shower, washed my balls, rinsed out my tights, and had lunch, I'll answer your question.

Marco.

chris@panteg

10-04-2011, 10:48

Marco seems to want a clarification of my comments.

I will provide it when I get back from the garden.

I thought you Brits were supposed to be intelligent?

I'm Not :scratch:

I thought the rest of the world viewed us as ' pompous , arrogant , stuck up and i can't remember who said this but some great Brit , described Britain as a world class power , to which the chinese ambassador replied ' more like a world class bully '

I don't think you can argue with that really , if you look closely at our own history .

WOStantonCS100

11-04-2011, 00:50

Man, leave a thread for a minute and all h3ll breaks loose and the sheep start runnin' for cover! :doh: :lolsign:

And, just for the record, we in the US, the proud reprobate sons of the UK, (and other various places) are more pompus and arrogant than you are!! Have I made myself clear!?! And, just to prove it, Chris, my Technics is better than your Technics... ...no, not for any apparent reason... ...just 'cause I say so. :lol:

MartinT

11-04-2011, 06:00

It's about time we recall your independence... :)

WOStantonCS100

11-04-2011, 07:02

It's about time we recall your independence... :)

Careful! After years of lightly suggesting it, the wifey has recently given me the thumbs up on jumping the pond. I was shocked. I could be your new neighbor. :)

MartinT

11-04-2011, 07:08

Come on over. Plenty of room here if you're prepared to breath in!

chris@panteg

11-04-2011, 10:08

WOStantonCS100

11-04-2011, 18:38

:sofa:

Just a moment of drunken sincerity :rolleyes:

And yes ok your Technics is better than mine , and you have an SLM3 :youtheman:

Chris,

Your 1200 setup would stomp the SL-M3 in a minute! It's a very nice deck, eye candy; but, since I got the T3 on my 1200, the M3 has been collecting dust in a corner... literally. I'm also not one who thinks "SME" is just a badge.

The underside of the M3 platter is not damped (neither is it on the 13/14/1500MK2, 150MK2, M1(A) & M2) and rings like an alarm clock without the mat. This is where the Zu modded platter, standard 1200 platter and certainly the MN platter, as an altogether different animal, have it over the M3 in spades.

chris@panteg

11-04-2011, 22:27

Chris,

Your 1200 setup would stomp the SL-M3 in a minute! It's a very nice deck, eye candy; but, since I got the T3 on my 1200, the M3 has been collecting dust in a corner... literally. I'm also not one who thinks "SME" is just a badge.

The underside of the M3 platter is not damped (neither is it on the 13/14/1500MK2, 150MK2, M1(A) & M2) and rings like an alarm clock without the mat. This is where the Zu modded platter, standard 1200 platter and certainly the MN platter, as an altogether different animal, have it over the M3 in spades.

I thought it probably looked better than it sounded lol :) , still a fascinating looking design and never available in the UK ?

I am rather fond of my QL1 , a good little deck and one even Wifey and Katie can use .

colinB

11-04-2011, 23:16

I might try slapping some epoxy resin under my platter if im bored one night.
Just reading someones vinyl blog and he mentions the zu technics mods which he describes as " putting lipstick on a pig" :lol:

WOStantonCS100

11-04-2011, 23:23

I thought it probably looked better than it sounded lol :) , still a fascinating looking design and never available in the UK ?

I am rather fond of my QL1 , a good little deck and one even Wifey and Katie can use .

The QL1 is a cool deck. I used to have two. My son uses the one I have left (but I often think about taking it back)! For anyone who hasn't seen one up close, the thing is a hefty bit of kit. I need to go back and read up on all you had done to yours.

The SL-M3, as far as I know, was never available here, either. It has the Japanese plug. It is amazing how quiet they got the electromechanical arm (kudos); but, in my opinion, by it's own mechanical nature, it won't beat an SME, Jelco, T3 or Technics own EPAs... Dang SEXY, though.

Darren

12-04-2011, 07:13

Oi, my 'mint sauce' isn't that fusty!! :lol: :eyebrows:

Marco.

I think I'm gonna hurl!

DSJR

12-04-2011, 09:00

Ringing platter without the mat? Don't most platters do this? Once a mat is installed, what's the point of adding even more damping when the mat does it all?????????

:confused:

chris@panteg

12-04-2011, 11:05

Ringing platter without the mat? Don't most platters do this? Once a mat is installed, what's the point of adding even more damping when the mat does it all?????????

:confused:

Yes Dave , and actually i think the engineer's at Matsuhista didn't just plonk a platter on any of their better deck's , and think , oh that'll do , take a look at the 1200 platter and tell me there isn't some serious engineering going on here ?

This is a what a M8 of mine said , (ex Concordant dealer) when he 1st clapped eye's upon my Techie platter and he know's a thing or two , he built his own TT and is very proud of it !

My QL1 does not have any damping underneath the platter , but the supplied mat does the job well .

Marco

12-04-2011, 15:51

Hi Chris,

Yes Dave , and actually i think the engineer's at Matsuhista didn't just plonk a platter on any of their better deck's , and think , oh that'll do , take a look at the 1200 platter and tell me there isn't some serious engineering going on here ?

That may be the case, but it still doesn't detract from the fact that, un-weighted, the stock platter rings like bell - and even with some types of mats on top (like the Herbie's, for example) it still isn't fully damped...

And that this then imparts a rather annoying 'signature'/coloration on music reproduced, that others and I who own Mike New platters, which don't possess said signature, can clearly hear.

So, yes, the stock SL-1200 platter is good, but it's by no means perfect! :)

Marco.

MCRU

12-04-2011, 19:20

Hi Chris,

That may be the case, but it still doesn't detract from the fact that, un-weighted, the stock platter rings like bell - and even with some types of mats on top (like the Herbie's, for example) it still isn't fully damped...

And that this then imparts a rather annoying 'signature'/coloration on music reproduced, that others and I who own Mike New platters, which don't possess said signature, can clearly hear.

So, yes, the stock SL-1200 platter is good, but it's by no means perfect!

Marco.

yawn

stock platter, mike new platter, put another record on Marco....no pun intended...............:ner:

Marco

12-04-2011, 21:07

Lol - I didn't bring the subject up, mate - someone else did. I'm merely providing the facts and keeping folks in touch with reality ;)

Marco.

MCRU

12-04-2011, 21:19

Do we really need reminding for the 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 999999999999999999th time how good your TT is?

drrd

12-04-2011, 21:32

How about people uploading some recordings?; stock platter/mat/PSU, aftermarket platter/mats/outboard PSUs. It is really all talk otherwise.

Marco

12-04-2011, 21:44

Hi Russell,

Stay tuned, as I'll be doing precisely that very soon!

However, needledrops only tell you so much. The best thing to do is get to a few bake-offs where people are playing different modded Techies (and other T/Ts), and hear the results with your own ears :)

As for myself, I've demo'd my modded Techy in public to 100s of people at the Scalford Hall shows now for three years running, as well as attended umpteen bake-offs all over the country, so my actions speak far louder than my words ;)

Marco.

Marco

12-04-2011, 21:46

MartinT

12-04-2011, 21:48

It is really all talk otherwise.

Not really. Marco and I, at least, have had various AoS members around to ours for a listen. We're quite happy to demonstrate how good the Techie sounds, so it isn't all talk.

WOStantonCS100

12-04-2011, 23:13

Not really. Marco and I, at least, have had various AoS members around to ours for a listen. We're quite happy to demonstrate how good the Techie sounds, so it isn't all talk.

Right. It is most definitely not all talk. I don't yet have my MN bearing/platter combo; however, I have an SL-J2, SL-QL1, two SL-1500MK2's, SL-1400MK2, SL-M3, SL-150MK2, and two SL-1200MK2's (at last count). I'm not trying to "have a piss on" or "lookee what I got". The point is I've spent considerable time listening to all of these tables in stock form. There is most definitely a difference and the most uncoloured of them all is the SL-1200MK2 platter/mat. It is not balanced like the 13/14/15*MK2's; but, the combination of underdamping and good mat damping contribute considerably to the inoffensiveness of presentation. I have no doubt that a MN upgrade will up the ante or even a copper or Oyaide mat. Going the exact opposite direction is the SL-J2 with it's toy-like platter and thin, not very well coupled, rubber mat. You can hear the "rubber" (that sounds a bit funny;) ). It definitely imparts an unwanted character on record playback.

Yes, all metal platters (of this type) ring; the precise reason why Technics didn't come with felt mats as standard (DJ slipmats being for an entirely different purpose). I can enjoy music on the SL-J2; but, I can't say it's platter/mat combination sounds better than a stock or modded SL-1200MK2 platter/mat combo, because it just doesn't.

If MN's bearing/platter combo (whenever I get it) doesn't stomp "stock", he'll be getting it back. I doubt he'll be sitting around waiting for my RMA. Maybe I'll put the Oyaide on the other 1200 at the same time and sort it/compare.

...perhaps there's humour in this thread that I'm missing...

freefallrob

13-04-2011, 11:05

Pah!

You all talking rubbish, my modded Numark TT100 is betterer than any Techy, so there.

:ner:

Or perhaps not.......:-)!

http://public.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p3mmyL0x6NdUoafxelB8PV5BG_Z_cr0HbvRGQa4PEGU08Co_ bEMCaWFMo8Amcx5MdH6KPrJw0GjwWfQj3-x73Og/numarkrb301vigor.jpg?psid=1

Beobloke

13-04-2011, 11:55

I'm just glad no-one else has discovered Vestax yet. This anonymity is keeping 'em nice and cheap for me! :eyebrows:

Bugger - did I type that out loud?

DSJR

13-04-2011, 12:46

WTF rated them a long while back. Are we joking Adam or is there some truth in them there typings of yours above?

Marco

13-04-2011, 12:55

I'm just glad no-one else has discovered Vestax yet. This anonymity is keeping 'em nice and cheap for me! :eyebrows:

Bugger - did I type that out loud?

Afternoon, Adam :)

May I direct to the conversation we were having yesterday on this thread: http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=10709&page=2, specifically to posts #13, #19, #20, #21 and #26, therein?

When you get a chance, I'd appreciate your thoughts on the points that were raised, as I do so hate 'loose ends'.....

Cheers! :cool:

Marco.

Beobloke

13-04-2011, 13:25

Unfortunately Marco, as I am merely a humble contributor these days, I'm afraid I am not really in a position to answer your questions regarding the magazine content (which is why I haven't answered them!) as I no longer have any say in it - I merely review what I am sent or am asked to call in.

You'd be better off asking Noel or David. Sorry!

Marco

13-04-2011, 13:31

Ok, that's fine... How about taking your HFW hat off completely then, and simply giving us your views on the points raised as 'Adam, the hi-fi enthisiast and vintage T/T fetishist?' :eyebrows:

After all, your status as being merely a "humble contributor" these days on HFW didn't stop you from initially replying to my question yesterday.... ;)

Marco.

Beobloke

13-04-2011, 13:31

WTF rated them a long while back. Are we joking Adam or is there some truth in them there typings of yours above?

Pop in for a listen next time you're down South and you can tell me....:eyebrows:

drrd

13-04-2011, 19:56

I'm just glad no-one else has discovered Vestax yet. This anonymity is keeping 'em nice and cheap for me! :eyebrows:

Bugger - did I type that out loud?

I've got a Vestax PDX-D3S sitting in the corner at the moment. Still have some recordings I made with it and sound pretty good. Difficult to compare with 1210 as arm/cartridge/phono stage have all changed, I sold the Shure V15VxMR and GS Era amp I used with it.

Marco

13-04-2011, 20:09

Does anyone know who makes the direct-drive motor unit for Vestax T/Ts - I presume it's not their own design, or am I wrong in that respect?

Marco.

chris@panteg

14-04-2011, 00:14

Does anyone know who makes the direct-drive motor unit for Vestax T/Ts - I presume it's not their own design, or am I wrong in that respect?

Marco.

I could be wrong , but its made by the company that bought the right's to build the SL motor , which may have been some time ago .

Marco

14-04-2011, 00:16

Hi Chris,

What, Matushita Electric?

Marco.

chris@panteg

14-04-2011, 00:27

Hi Chris,

What, Matushita Electric?

Marco.

Hi Marco

Like i said i could be mistaken but i think Matushita Electric sold the plans to a chinese company , this is one of the reason's why the SL1200 has ceased to be in production , not because of declining sale's oh no , but shall we say a rash decision by ME , and now its bit them on the bum .

But don't take what i say as the gospel truth ! Its just something i may or may not have heard , or i could be making it up :)

MartinT

14-04-2011, 08:59

Matsushita are the owners of the Technics and Panasonic brands, so they designed the motor.

Beobloke

14-04-2011, 10:39

Does anyone know who makes the direct-drive motor unit for Vestax T/Ts - I presume it's not their own design, or am I wrong in that respect?

Marco.

As far as I'm aware it is their own design and appears in no other turntables on the market. The one in the older PDXA1/A2/D3 decks (the ones I have) is a huge lump of a thing (I have one out of a deck at the moment and will snap a picture when I get five minutes) and is controlled by Vestax's own discrete circuitry and a control algorithm programmed into a PIC microcontroller.

The latest version in the PDX-2300 and PDX-3000 ranges is slightly smaller physically but controlled by a 32bit CPU and the torque it delivers is absolutely staggering.

I have a line on a spare motor and control circuitry from a PDX-2300 and also have been given some DIY turntable components (plinth, platter etc.) that were surplus to requirements. I'm currently pondering how best to mate the two, which could be interesting.....:eyebrows:

Marco

14-04-2011, 10:56

Cheers, Adam. That's most interesting. I was under the impression that the motor unit in the Vestax was sourced from Stanton, which was always a 'torquier' unit than the Technics one, but I could be wrong.

The problem is that there was/is so much re-badging going on in the DJ turntable scene, so it's difficult to know their true 'DNA'....

No doubt the Vestax sounds great, I'd trust your ears on that one. It's just a pity it looks so fugly and blingy (at least to my eyes)! ;)

Marco.

Beobloke

14-04-2011, 11:05

No doubt the Vestax sounds great, I'd trust your ears on that one. It's just a pity it looks so fugly and blingy (at least to my eyes)! ;)

Marco.

I'm sorry, how can you say my beautiful PDX-8000 is "Blingy" (piccy attached)?! ;)

As an aside, look at the arm, specifically around the bearing housing. Now go and find a picture of a Yamaha GT-750 on Google and look at that arm's bearing housing. Interesting resemblance.....

Marco

14-04-2011, 11:11

I'm sorry, how can you say my beautiful PDX-8000 is "Blingy" (piccy attached)?!

Do you really want me to answer that?? :lol:

As an aside, look at the arm, specifically around the bearing housing. Now go and find a picture of a Yamaha GT-750 on Google and look at that arm's bearing housing. Interesting resemblance.....

I'll go now and have a squinto on Googly.......

Marco.

MartinT

14-04-2011, 11:55

Those straight arms are simply laughable. The tracing misalignment distortion must be incredible. All done for the looks!

Beobloke

14-04-2011, 13:02

Those straight arms are simply laughable. The tracing misalignment distortion must be incredible. All done for the looks!

It's not for looks at all as the decks were designed for hard scratch use. Think about a conventional arm - you apply anti-skating to pull the arm back out in order to counteract the natural inward pull of the groove when the record is spinning. Now reverse the direction of rotation of the record and suddenly that bias is pushing the arm in the SAME direction as its natural pull. The upshot is the arm jumps out of the groove unless a shedload of stylus pressure is applied.

The straight Vestax ASTS (Anti-Skipping Tonearm System) has a dead band in the centre of the playing area where the arm has no tendency to move either in or out - do your scratching here and it's completely stable.

OK so it's not ideal for hi-fi use, but Vestax did some variants with conventional S-shaped arms. Furthermore, with a spherical stylus running at its recommended pressure (I use an Ortofon OM Pro S at 3g), I can hear no horrendous distortion on my PDX-8000!