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Emmodd
11-09-2008, 11:26
I'm in the process of moving house and will be looking at adding a mac based front end (either a headless mini or apple tv) in addition to my current disc spinner and a new t/t.

At the moment I have an aged desktop pc on which i've installed iTunes. Already on the desktop I have a music folder with a large number of files in various formats and ripped at varying bit-rates etc. Some are ripped from cd's whereas others are live recordings etc which i've downloaded. As a consequence, some of the tags etc are all over the place.

I've noticed that when importing into itunes, unless a piece of music is tagged correctly it can be all over the place.

I have a number of queries which people may be able to help with.

1. Does itunes create it's own folder ie duplicate the music i'm importing (because i've noticed a lot of tracks are on twice). If so, is possible to easily delete the duplicate tracks from the library and is there an easy was to alter the tags so that the correct songs stay in the correct 'album'? Should I do this in the itunes folder only (otherwise if I rescan, it'll no doubt have to convert a number of files to ones which itunes can handle)?
2. If itunes does create it's own folder, when I have my mac, what it the best way to get my itunes library on there? Can I just copy across the file by firewire, usb etc? Can I copy across to an external HDD and point itunes on the mac in the right direction?
3. Is the duplicate track thing just a pc problem because i'm running apple software on it?

Filterlab
11-09-2008, 12:38
1. Does itunes create it's own folder ie duplicate the music i'm importing (because i've noticed a lot of tracks are on twice). If so, is possible to easily delete the duplicate tracks from the library and is there an easy was to alter the tags so that the correct songs stay in the correct 'album'? Should I do this in the itunes folder only (otherwise if I rescan, it'll no doubt have to convert a number of files to ones which itunes can handle)?

Yes, iTunes creates its own folder (assuming you check the 'create copy' box in the advanced options). Once you have dragged all your music files into iTunes you can go ahead and delete the source files as they are duplicated. The only file type iTunes has a problem with is FLAC, but do a search on Google as there are a range of free plug-ins that add FLAC capability.


2. If itunes does create it's own folder, when I have my mac, what it the best way to get my itunes library on there? Can I just copy across the file by firewire, usb etc? Can I copy across to an external HDD and point itunes on the mac in the right direction?

Connect your external hard drive by USB or Firewire and drag the whole lot into iTunes, then delete the original files. Alternatively you can point iTunes to any location you like, simply select the location in the advanced options pane.


3. Is the duplicate track thing just a pc problem because i'm running apple software on it?

The duplicate thing is a PC problem, but Apple sorted that out a long long time ago.

If you're after sound quality though I'd advise dispensing with iTunes and changing to Max and Cog. Max is import software that does many passes to eradicate any errors (as many as you like) and Cog is playback software that is very simple and easy to use - the combination of the two is unbeatable for sound quality as far as Apple software playback goes. No bells and whistles mind, but that's hardly the point of hi-fi is it? :)

Emmodd
11-09-2008, 12:45
Thanks very much. Will concentrate on sorting out those pesky id tags before i dip a toe into the world of mac. Should all be straightforward then!

Filterlab
11-09-2008, 12:54
No problem. Once you get a Mac, you'll discover just why so many people are over the moon with them. ;)

SteveW
12-09-2008, 18:33
I do wish the duplicate thing was just a PC problem. My ageing powerbook died, so transfered the 500 gig hard drive, containing 80 or 90 gig of tracks to an imac.
11,000 tracks became 22,000.
:doh::doh::doh::doh:

Emmodd
12-09-2008, 19:59
Out of interest, does the cog software allow you to interface via an ipod touch (or similar) in same way that itunes does? Reason being I want to run the mini headlessly

burak
13-09-2008, 08:54
Hi...

I'm not in a position to advice, but this is what I've been through regarding Cog and flack with iTunes:

I've downloaded some free flack files and played them by iTunes via Fluke. Some of them were fine, but the ones from 2L was unplayable. So I've decided to use Cog, but then Cog was degrading another song when the volume went high and it was fine through iTunes. At the end I've converted all the flack files to aiff by Max and am now using iTunes.

Some other things in my system might be responsible for these problems, but all the same iTunes and aiff seemed to me to be the safest and most hassle free option.

Emmodd
13-09-2008, 10:30
Appreciate your view - something else to think about now eh?

Filterlab
13-09-2008, 11:23
Burak, try running the 'unstable' version of Cog, it is highly superior to iTunes and superior to the normal Cog. iTunes just can't compare to either really as it's got too much processing going on to be transparent enough. However it is useful in that Apple devices communicate through it. However as you rightly point out, the issues could lay elsewhere, most likely in the FLAC to AIFF conversion.

If anyone wants to use Cog then I recommend importing through Max. Import AIFF files in 32bit Linear PCM mode (88.1khz sampling rate), Cog will play these effortlessly and it avoids any potential for aliasing when the signal is decoded (i.e. changing a 16bit signal into a 24bit signal - although it can work amazingly well on some tracks!). You'll find this far far superior to iTunes, especially iTunes 8.

burak
13-09-2008, 11:38
Thank you, Filterlab; I'll try that. Hope, I haven't hijacked, Emmodd.

Filterlab
13-09-2008, 11:43
No problem matey, and it's all in keeping with the thread. Add your findings, this is a huge subject with continual revelation with more and more folk moving over to Macs (as I did a couple of years back), there's loads to chat about in this field. :)

burak
13-09-2008, 12:00
Nice place, Filterlab; thanks again.

SteveW
13-09-2008, 12:09
Thanks for the tips on Max, Rob.
I'm gradually cherry picking tracks from my external hard-drive to play through itunes. However this morning I have ripped Peter Gabriels gtst hits album, and was comparing "Sledgehammer' AIFF (54 mb, 46 khz) played through airport express through my Beresford 7150. Very Bass lite compared to CD...and I'm fairly certain it aint the DAC, so want to experiment now using Max again...

Filterlab
13-09-2008, 12:17
No problem Steve. I've tried loads of different software and combinations of settings and Max and Cog at 32bit/88.2khz works best for me, but any combination of software and settings may work entirely different for others. One thing I was doing previously was importing and upsampling to 24/192 and playing back at 24/96, it oddly worked wonders on many tracks (particularly Roisin Murphy's 'Overpowered') but worsened the bulk of my music. That's when I moved to the 32bit importing via Max, my DAC's happy and my ears are happy as a result.

However, it could all change if another piece of software appears on the market!

Good luck with Max anyway. Out of interest, what CD player were you using when you made your comparison with 'Sledgehammer'?

SteveW
13-09-2008, 12:23
Using an Ikemi, Rob...in a Linn active system (Exotic, klouts, tukans)

Just downloaded Max onto my lads imac. (used to have it on my now defunct powerbook).
Can't quite see how to alter settings in Mac. Looks like there are two AIFF versions..but is there a way of altering sampling rates etc?

cheers

steve

PS...of course I'm wondering about how the airport express affects the data also. Have been using Cog played through Airfoil...

SteveW
13-09-2008, 12:24
oops...meant alter settings in MAX of course:)

Filterlab
13-09-2008, 12:26
I'm at work at the mo so I'm facing a Microsoft thing, I'll check on my Mac when I get home. It's been a while since I set it up so I can't remember off the top of my head! It's quite a protracted affair if I remember, Max seems to be aimed at the IT degree holding ardent Mac audiophile / professional remixer. :) I'll be home at 2:30pm ish.

SteveW
13-09-2008, 12:41
I've just found a drop down menu that options 32 bit, so clicked that.

However...sorry you are at work, its a glorious day here...which means the pressure is on to get some outside paintwork done. With a bit of luck it'll be raining tomorrow.
Nah...not really.

Filterlab
13-09-2008, 13:54
I've just found a drop down menu that options 32 bit, so clicked that.

Lovely job. For those that haven't found it, on the preferences pane (⌘ & ,) and select the formats tab.

http://s560.photobucket.com/albums/ss49/aos_images/random_stuff/Preferences.jpg

Assuming you have selected AIFF as an import encoding file type (by far and away the best encoder), highlight it and press 'encoder settings'.

http://s560.photobucket.com/albums/ss49/aos_images/random_stuff/Encoderrate.jpg

Select 32bit and the job's done!

SteveW
13-09-2008, 14:20
Cheers Rob

Do you reckon there is any difference between AIFF -Apple/SGi and AIFF - Linear PCM ?

SteveW
13-09-2008, 14:37
Ohh..and another curiosity. Where do I find the 'unstable' version of Cog ?

thanks

Filterlab
13-09-2008, 15:56
Cheers Rob

Do you reckon there is any difference between AIFF -Apple/SGi and AIFF - Linear PCM ?

To be honest mate I couldn't say, I've never (knowingly) used Apple/SGi AIFF. However Linear PCM lossless is the basis for HDMI transmission of lossless 7.1 from Blu-ray, and also lossless 24bit stereo from DVD, so it should be ideal for high quality 2 channel 16bit (or 32bit) audio. :)


Ohh..and another curiosity. Where do I find the 'unstable' version of Cog ?

thanks

This is done from within Cog itself. Simply bring up the preferences pane (⌘ & ,) and click on the 'updates' tab. Select unstable from the drop down menu. :)

http://s560.photobucket.com/albums/ss49/aos_images/random_stuff/Cogunstable.jpg

burak
14-09-2008, 05:41
Filterlab, in ripping to aiff do I have to enter the disc information (tags?) manually in Max as it seemingly doesn't do it automatically like iTunes?

Edit: I've found that, one needs to run the "Get iTunes Metadata" script. It seems every time you insert a CD, you need to launch both iTunes and Max, and run that script.

SteveW
14-09-2008, 08:34
Has anyone done any tests using AIFF versus Apple CAF comparisons??

Seems that CAF is newer and has several advatages over AIFF (file size isn't limlited) ???

Don't know if my ipod will play caf files though...and also wondering if I might just stick with Apple Lossless after all..

lordy lordy

Filterlab
14-09-2008, 15:58
AIFF has a limit of 4gb per file! Most individual tracks won't reach anywhere near that so it's not really a limitation per se. However given that Core Audio Files are up to 64bit word lengths there may be some advantage. I'll give it a whirl when I have some time and see if it makes a difference. It may be a case of the difference between a 500bhp car and a 600bhp car; they'll both easily be capable of 50mph with no problem, however it may make a world of difference :)

SteveW
14-09-2008, 16:25
I need to have more of a play and experiment with all these things Rob.
tagging is another issue.
Wish Cog could play with a remote ...as I've got a PDA from work running a Salling Clicker programme (itunes appears in a very basic form), so can change tracks downstairs whilst the imac is upstairs.

However, so far whilst Cog and Max ripping have given me a big dollop of clarity and detail especially with the enhanced settings...I'm still bass light.

Something tells me that whatever I do, using an Airport Express is the culprit.

When I've got a bit of time spare, I think I need to see how it all sounds with a Mac plugged via optic straight into my Beresford DAC

Beechwoods
14-09-2008, 16:56
Salling Clicker is easy to script any app that can be controlled by keyboard shortcuts. The Salling website has details and their forums are always a good place to look for scripts other people have written. I've not tried it with Cog myself but I'm sure others have.

I wrote my own very very simple controller for MacAmp when I used to use that, pre-Cog, for lossless playback. With a couple of other keypress scripts for reference it wasn't at all difficult. It didn't have any of the feedback and menus you get on the iTunes clicker scripts though. They may seem basic but they're actually very clever the way they pass artwork and other info back to the handset.